The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”
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The minimum time every human should spend ceasing from our own works to commune with God is one day all day per week. It does not matter which day of the week that might be. But the ideal is that we cease from our own works every day all day, and commune with God every day all day. That is called walking in the Spirit and praying without ceasing and entering into His rest.
Yes, and here is a try they prompted me to add to our website:
Sabbath Law
Because the NT does not affirm the Sabbath Law as it did the moral commands in the Ten Commandments, one needs to discern the correct doctrine for Christians by considering the following Scriptures.
1. God rested from His work and rested on the seventh day and made it holy per GN 2:2-3.
2. Moses promulgated the Sabbath law as the 4th of the Ten Commandments in EX 20:8-11, cf. LV 19:3&30, DT 5:12-15.
3. Solomon builds a temple for burnt offerings on the Sabbath in 2CHR 2:4.
4. Isaiah said those are blessed who keep the Sabbath in IS 56:2-6.
5. Jeremiah commands keeping the Sabbath holy in JR 17:21-27.
6. Ezekiel referred to the Sabbaths in 20:12
7. Jesus declared he is Lord of the Sabbath and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath in MT 12:1-12.
8. Jesus healed a crippled woman on the Sabbath in LK 13:10-16.
If Jesus thought keeping the Sabbath was an important law, he would have affirmed it on these two occasions, but he did not specifically nullify it either, which jibes/harmonizes perfectly with Paul.
9. Paul taught that a person may rest on the Sabbath or not in Col. 2:16, Gal. 4:9-11 & Rom. 14:5.
10. Paul encourages Christians to enter God’s Sabbath rest by persevering faith in Heb. 3:7-4:11.
The primary sin per the NT is transgression of GRFS (GL 3:1-14), and secondary sins are transgression of Christ’s law (JN 13:34), which summarizes the OT moral laws (MT 22:37-40) affirmed by the NT (MT 5:17-48) and calls them the fruit of the Spirit (GL 5:22-23), which does NOT include all 613 laws of Moses, such as those pertaining to mildew and infectious disease in LV 14.
Jesus fulfilled/accomplished the 613 Mosaic laws (MT 5:17-19) and taught that righteousness must surpass/supersede that of the Pharisees (MT 5:20) including Paul (ACTS 22:3-5), to whom Jesus appeared, saying “Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you… I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.”
Paul did just that when he preached to the folks (both Jews and Gentiles per ACTS 14:1-5) in Galatia (ACTS 13:49), encouraging them to remain true to the faith (ACTS 14:22), which he reiterated in his epistle, beginning “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel, which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ… But if anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” (GL 1:3-9)
Paul stated the true gospel thusly, “I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ [the HS] lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved he and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness [holiness] could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
Paul may also have written Hebrews, which warns against not entering God’s Sabbath rest by not holding firmly until the end the confidence/faith in Christ (HB 3:14, 4:2). HB 7:11-10:1 begins as follows:
“If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood, why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also… The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless, for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Such a high priest truly meets our need… the Son, who has been made perfect forever, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven… The ministry of Jesus has received is superior to the old one [of Moses], since the NC is established on better promises… God said, ‘The days are coming when I will make a new covenant’ [JR 31:31-34]. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts… By calling this covenant ‘new’, he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.”
In this passage the Lord says that the OC including the Sabbath commandment is obsolete/abrogated by the Gospel of Christ. Need GW say more?
Sabbath Law
Because the NT does not affirm the Sabbath Law as it did the moral commands in the Ten Commandments, one needs to discern the correct doctrine for Christians by considering the following Scriptures.
1. God rested from His work and rested on the seventh day and made it holy per GN 2:2-3.
2. Moses promulgated the Sabbath law as the 4th of the Ten Commandments in EX 20:8-11, cf. LV 19:3&30, DT 5:12-15.
3. Solomon builds a temple for burnt offerings on the Sabbath in 2CHR 2:4.
4. Isaiah said those are blessed who keep the Sabbath in IS 56:2-6.
5. Jeremiah commands keeping the Sabbath holy in JR 17:21-27.
6. Ezekiel referred to the Sabbaths in 20:12
7. Jesus declared he is Lord of the Sabbath and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath in MT 12:1-12.
8. Jesus healed a crippled woman on the Sabbath in LK 13:10-16.
If Jesus thought keeping the Sabbath was an important law, he would have affirmed it on these two occasions, but he did not specifically nullify it either, which jibes/harmonizes perfectly with Paul.
9. Paul taught that a person may rest on the Sabbath or not in Col. 2:16, Gal. 4:9-11 & Rom. 14:5.
10. Paul encourages Christians to enter God’s Sabbath rest by persevering faith in Heb. 3:7-4:11.
The primary sin per the NT is transgression of GRFS (GL 3:1-14), and secondary sins are transgression of Christ’s law (JN 13:34), which summarizes the OT moral laws (MT 22:37-40) affirmed by the NT (MT 5:17-48) and calls them the fruit of the Spirit (GL 5:22-23), which does NOT include all 613 laws of Moses, such as those pertaining to mildew and infectious disease in LV 14.
Jesus fulfilled/accomplished the 613 Mosaic laws (MT 5:17-19) and taught that righteousness must surpass/supersede that of the Pharisees (MT 5:20) including Paul (ACTS 22:3-5), to whom Jesus appeared, saying “Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you… I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.”
Paul did just that when he preached to the folks (both Jews and Gentiles per ACTS 14:1-5) in Galatia (ACTS 13:49), encouraging them to remain true to the faith (ACTS 14:22), which he reiterated in his epistle, beginning “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel, which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ… But if anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” (GL 1:3-9)
Paul stated the true gospel thusly, “I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ [the HS] lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved he and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness [holiness] could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
Paul may also have written Hebrews, which warns against not entering God’s Sabbath rest by not holding firmly until the end the confidence/faith in Christ (HB 3:14, 4:2). HB 7:11-10:1 begins as follows:
“If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood, why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also… The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless, for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Such a high priest truly meets our need… the Son, who has been made perfect forever, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven… The ministry of Jesus has received is superior to the old one [of Moses], since the NC is established on better promises… God said, ‘The days are coming when I will make a new covenant’ [JR 31:31-34]. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts… By calling this covenant ‘new’, he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.”
In this passage the Lord says that the OC including the Sabbath commandment is obsolete/abrogated by the Gospel of Christ. Need GW say more?
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While I respect your knowledge of Greek, I dispute your view that "One can be quite orthodox and still be a heretic (biblically)",
because my knowledge of English is that heresy and orthodoxy are antonyms, with heresy meaning a false faction.
IOW, Greek and English usage may not always jibe exactly.
because my knowledge of English is that heresy and orthodoxy are antonyms, with heresy meaning a false faction.
IOW, Greek and English usage may not always jibe exactly.
You are wealth of information and I appreciate it, praying you go back to OSAS, it is the Gospel you know! 
but that discussion is didachaic or downstream of our agreement regarding the Christian creed,
so I look forward to a congenial discussion of the doctrine if perseverance,
if you want to put feet to your prayers for God's truth to be believed.
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Doctrine of perseverance is aaa..... shall I say it, a "Calvinist" construct.
Scripture states "born from above" happens once, not drawn out over years, but at the moment a person exercises faith and receives the gift of salvation.
This means the declaration of the status "Justified" is not contingent upon whether one preserves or how well one perseveres, although scripture tells why a person should and exhorts us to do so.
Scripture states "born from above" happens once, not drawn out over years, but at the moment a person exercises faith and receives the gift of salvation.
This means the declaration of the status "Justified" is not contingent upon whether one preserves or how well one perseveres, although scripture tells why a person should and exhorts us to do so.
Scripture actually says we were made alive in Christ while we were yet dead in our trespasses and sins. And it further states that salvation is by the will and mercy and desire of God and not the will or desire or effort of man. You constantly have the natural man, with an incurably wicked heart, the guy who is a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, and suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, choosing to believe that which is foolishnesss to him, which he can neither comprehend nor receive. You like to pretend that the bad tree can bring forth good fruit even though Jesus said that was not possible. What happens upon belief is that we are sealed with the promise of the Holy Spirit. Scripture says that...
"You constantly have the natural man, with an incurably wicked heart, the guy who is a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, and suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, choosing to believe that which is foolishnesss to him, which he can neither comprehend nor receive. "
Thanks be to Christ that his faithful are regenerated from that fallen state. Born again, so to have his holy Spirit within us to lead and guide his faithful upon the righteous path.
Thanks be to Christ that his faithful are regenerated from that fallen state. Born again, so to have his holy Spirit within us to lead and guide his faithful upon the righteous path.
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John 3 verses 19-20 and from Psalm 10 verse 4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord
John 3 verses 19-20 and from Psalm 10 verse 4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord
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