The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

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My friend! I love many of your posts and so blessed to have you post here and look forward to reading many more of them. :)

I would like to point out that I disagree with this statement.

The law is a generic term-and this is where most of the confusion comes in because people do not look at the context of the law being spoken about. The law could mean the Ten Commandments as shown by these two examples


Exo 24:12 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.”

We plainly know only the Ten Commandments is the law God personally wrote on stone

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Here is a NT example

Rom7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Obviously the law being referred to is the Ten Commandments.

Often Paul will use the term law to refer to the book of the law what was beside the ark Deut4:13 written by Moses, not God.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

This is where most confusion on Scripture comes in because people (not saying you) in general do not study the difference between the two main laws. The law of God - the Ten Commandments written by God Himself that was inside the ark and the law that was added because of sin that was placed outside the ark, the law of Moses written by Moses that was there as a witness against thee Deut31:24-26 that contained all of the blessings and curses for breaking the Ten Commandments.

There is a law not a jot or tittle can pass Mat5:18- the one written by the finger of God Exo31:18 inside the ark of God Exo40:20 Exo25:21 in His heavenly Temple Rev11:18-19 that is perfect Psa19:7 holy, just and good Rom7:12

The law of Moses we were told plainly the commandments contained in ordinances written by Moses 2Chron33:8NKJV Col2:14KJV Dan9:27 Heb10:1-10 once Jesus came would end at the Cross.

Anyway, like I said this is an area that brings in a lot of confusion, so hope you don't mind me sharing these Scriptures.

God bless!
Yes the term "the Law " is constantly misused and the effects are seen=> confusion, many mix the Ten Commandments with the rest of the added Law of Moses and do not see a difference, also we use ""Moral "" law that too is confusing from now on, I will be clear in my posts about this, I will call apples, apples and bananas bananas... Lol
 
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What you are saying sounds right at first, but it only holds part of the truth and leaves out what both James and Jesus clearly teach.

James is not speaking about simple actions that only show what someone believes. He is speaking about a life that obeys God, and he makes that clear by pointing directly to the commandments themselves.

James says, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill… So speak ye, and so do, as men that are to be judged by a law of liberty.” (James 2:10–12 ASV). Here he is not talking about general actions or expressions of belief. He is pointing to God’s law and showing that our lives are judged by it.
Don't confuse the concepts of "keep" and "obey". We use the terms interchangeably, but they are distinct concepts in the Bible. To "obey" the law is to do what it says; to "keep" the law is to value, cherish, and protect it. When James says "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point" he is talking to people who value and cherish the entire law, but stumble at one point.

James is speaking into a culture that claims to value and cherish the Law of God, on the one hand, but acts as if the Law doesn't condemn them on the other hand. They believe themselves to be better or different from other men. They pay special attention to those who wear rich clothing but ignore the poor.

James knows what Paul also knows, that the Law speaks to those who are under the law, "so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God." Romans 3:19-20

Not only this, but Jesus tells a parable about a Pharisee and a Tax Gatherer to make the same point. The Pharisee thought he was better than other men. But the Tax Gatherer was on his knees repenting of his sins and asking God for mercy. In other words, all men are equally condemned by the Law.

James refers to the two commandments to love God and love our neighbor as the Royal Law. Therefore, when he says that faith without works is dead, he means that a claim to faith is empty unless it acts in accordance with the Royal law. He argues that a man who refuses to help his poor brother with resources that will sustain his life, that man's claim to believe God is suspect.

James is challenging the Pharisaical mindset that uses religion to satisfy its need for brotherhood, belonging, and approval. Jesus claims that they didn't believe him because they were seeking glory from other men rather than God. But in order to maintain the presumption of "righteousness" they changed the meaning of the Law in order to make it more "doable."

How did the Pharisees claim to believe God yet act contrary to that belief? They redefined terms. God commanded Israel to love their neighbor as themselves. In order to make it easier to obey, the Pharisees redefined "neighbor" to refer to another member of the brotherhood. They asked Jesus, "who is my neighbor?"

Then he says, “Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.” (James 2:17 ASV). This is not about faith lacking visible expression only, but about faith that does not obey. A faith that does not follow God is a dead faith.
It depends on what you mean by "follow God." Following God looks different in different contexts. The sons of Israel were commanded to follow God in a unique and special way. Obeying the Law of Moses, outwardly marked a member of the people of God during the Old Covenant. During the New Covenant, the people of God are marked inwardly.

He continues with Abraham and says, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works…? Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect.” (James 2:21–22 ASV). Abraham did not simply show what he believed. He obeyed what God told him to do, and through that obedience his faith was made complete.
That's my point. Abraham only had a handful of commands to obey: leave your home, sacrifice your son, etc. God didn't require Abraham's father to leave home or sacrifice his son. God's commands to Abraham were unique for him. Likewise, God's commands for Israel were unique to them.
When we listen to Jesus, the meaning becomes even clearer. He never separated belief from obedience. He said, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.” (John 14:15 ASV). He also said, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17 ASV). And again, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father.” (Matthew 7:21 ASV). These words are simple and direct. To believe Him is to follow Him, and to follow Him is to obey.
Again, the issue is the distinction between "keeping" a commandment and "doing" a commandment in light of Jesus' teaching. In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus taught the people to draw a distinction between self-righteousness and actual righteousness, using a formulaic speech structure. He repeated the phrases: "You have heard it said . . . but I tell you."

When Jesus speaks about "keeping" his commandments, he teaches his disciples to internalize the commandments and to think in terms of principles rather than rules. When He says “keep my commandments,” He is not training rule‑followers; He is training people whose inner life has been reshaped so that the commandments become the natural expression of who they are. Jesus is not saying, “Follow these rules.”He is saying, “Let my words become the operating system of your heart.”

Love one another as I have loved you.
That’s not a rule; that’s a pattern, a principle, a way of being.

The example of forgiveness actually confirms this. Jesus said, “For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if ye forgive not men… neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:14–15 ASV). Forgiving others is not just an action that shows belief. It is something Jesus commanded, and obeying it is required.
Again, Jesus is not giving us rules to obey. He is giving us the reasons behind the rules. He is training his disciples to learn WHY God commands what he does.

For instance, God commands that a person build a parapet around his roof. Why? Is it that God is really into parapets? No. Rather, God values human life, which is why the parapets are necessary. If all we did was obey the rules, we might live an entire lifetime never thinking about what God values.

A father tells his son not to swing the baseball bat in the house. The underlying principle behind the rule is the value of life and property. But suppose there was a fire in the house, would the Father get angry or upset if the son used the baseball bat to break a window and escape the fire?

Peter asked Jesus about forgiveness, whether he should forgive his brother 7 times. He was attempting to quantify the rule. How many times must I forgive my brother in order to say that I have obeyed the rule? In Jesus view, we need to forgive our brother seventy times seven, which is not to say there is a limit to our forgiveness. He exaggerates to make another point.

Jesus is asking Peter, and us, to not only forgive our brother, but to WANT TO forgive our brother. Faith is what takes obedience beyond compliance. Faith says, I want to forgive my brother because I want forgiveness to be a part of my reality. I want to forgive others because I know that I need forgiveness from God.

So, James is not separating works from the commandments. He is showing that true faith lives in obedience to God. Faith and works are not two different paths. Faith believes God, and works follow Him. When someone truly believes, they do what He says. When they do not, their faith is empty.

You cannot remove the commandments and still keep the meaning of James. Without obedience, works become just human actions. But with Jesus, works become obedience to His words, and that is the path that leads to life.
I agree. However, it makes sense to focus on the commandments James mentions.
 
My friend! I love many of your posts and so blessed to have you post here and look forward to reading many more of them. :)

I would like to point out that I disagree with this statement.

The law is a generic term-and this is where most of the confusion comes in because people do not look at the context of the law being spoken about. The law could mean the Ten Commandments as shown by these two examples


Exo 24:12 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.”

We plainly know only the Ten Commandments is the law God personally wrote on stone

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Here is a NT example

Rom7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Obviously the law being referred to is the Ten Commandments.

Often Paul will use the term law to refer to the book of the law what was beside the ark Deut4:13 written by Moses, not God.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

This is where most confusion on Scripture comes in because people (not saying you) in general do not study the difference between the two main laws. The law of God - the Ten Commandments written by God Himself that was inside the ark and the law that was added because of sin that was placed outside the ark, the law of Moses written by Moses that was there as a witness against thee Deut31:24-26 that contained all of the blessings and curses for breaking the Ten Commandments.

There is a law not a jot or tittle can pass Mat5:18- the one written by the finger of God Exo31:18 inside the ark of God Exo40:20 Exo25:21 in His heavenly Temple Rev11:18-19 that is perfect Psa19:7 holy, just and good Rom7:12

The law of Moses we were told plainly the commandments contained in ordinances written by Moses 2Chron33:8NKJV Col2:14KJV Dan9:27 Heb10:1-10 once Jesus came would end at the Cross.

Anyway, like I said this is an area that brings in a lot of confusion, so hope you don't mind me sharing these Scriptures.

God bless!
Reread the post please. There are facts in it you are not addressing. You are kinda saying your post is wrong just speaking over it without actually addressing it.
Thanks
 
Reread the post please. There are facts in it you are not addressing. You are kinda saying your post is wrong just speaking over it without actually addressing it.
Thanks
Well show me where its wrong, just saying so it not really the same. You made the statement laws and commandments are different, I showed where that's not always the case.
 
Well show me where its wrong, just saying so it not really the same. You made the statement laws and commandments are different, I showed where that's not always the case.
Like wise said old friend. Reread the post and address what it says and show the error and why.

All you done initially was speak over it. You did not address it and show why it is wrong.
 
Like wise said old friend. Reread the post and address what it says and show the error and why.

All you done initially was speak over it. You did not address it and show why it is wrong.
I did address it and gave examples. But that's okay, we can agree to disagree. God bless and I still appreciate many of your posts.
 
This verse has the law of God written on the hearts and minds of His New Covenant believer. Who determines the law of God- God or us? Its sad this even has to be a debate. Yes, if we are in a covenant relationship where His laws are written in our minds to do them and written in our hearts because we want to do them by love- in this covenant He remembers our sins no more because we are no longer doing so, we are submitting to the Holy Spirit and though our love for Him- we are keeping the covenant God gave us and obeying His commandments through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Your idea that God "forgets our sins because we are no longer doing them" then is not FORGIVENESS. That is self-reform. To understand God's grace you would have to see that paying back the full debt of our sin to God is impossible. If it were possible the savior would not have had to pay the ultimate price for them by going to the cross. You have never grasped the depth of our sin, nor what it cost the Father and Son to forgive us.

You talk about "love" but when Jesus told the Parable of the Two Debtors (Luke 7:41-43) and asked "Which of the two loved the master more?" The answer was "the one who had been forgiven more" You think we can be reconciled to God by changing certain behaviors and then resolving to keep the Law more carefully. Past sins can be left behind without anything happening to cleanse the heart. This tells me that you have probably never experienced the true conviction of the Holy Spirit that brings Godly sorrow, tears and repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10)
 
Your idea that God "forgets our sins because we are no longer doing them" then is not FORGIVENESS. That is self-reform. To understand God's grace you would have to see that paying back the full debt of our sin to God is impossible. If it were possible the savior would not have had to pay the ultimate price for them by going to the cross. You have never grasped the depth of our sin, nor what it cost the Father and Son to forgive us.
You conflated two different ideas. If we are in a covenant with God that we enter by faith and this covenant has our Fathers laws written in our minds and hearts- He forgives us of sins we committed, they are not held against us. But we are not continuing in sin because we are submitting to the Holy Spirit, because the New Covenant is based on what He will do, why its based on better promises Heb8:6 not better laws, the standard of righteousness Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-2 has not changed its eternal Psa119:142 what changed is being able to keep the law of God through the power of the Holy Spirit, but it requires our cooperation John14:15-18
You talk about "love" but when Jesus told the Parable of the Two Debtors (Luke 7:41-43) and asked "Which of the two loved the master more?" The answer was "the one who had been forgiven more" You think we can be reconciled to God by changing certain behaviors and then resolving to keep the Law more carefully. Past sins can be left behind without anything happening to cleanse the heart. This tells me that you have probably never experienced the true conviction of the Holy Spirit that brings Godly sorrow, tears and repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10)
You missed the point of the whole parable. If we are not allowing God to define sin 1John3:4 and not confessing our sins but instead covering them Pro28:13 because we think part of the law of God is not for me, and lay it aside Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 than one is not going to Jesus seeking His forgiveness because they have relied on their own righteousness and not God's Psa119:172 Isa56:1-2 there is no sin too great for Him to forgive the dangerous part of living in sin because we have deemed what is right and wrong instead of allowing God to. The only sin that is not forgiven is the one we haven't repented for which means a change of mind and heart. Heb10:26-30
 
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That is your take on this my friend. There is a difference between His commandments, His statutes and His judgements. Please finish reading before replying.

No they didn't. Circumcision is still very much in affect In the cutting off the sins of the flesh, that the body of sin be destroyed. That we hence forth do not serve sin. And this circumcision was first spoken of in the Bool of the Law prior to the Children of Israel entering into the promised land in Deut 30:6. There you will find the New Covenant being given for the first time.
(1) There is a difference between His commandments, His statutes and His judgements. Please finish reading before replying.
When I read Psalm 119 I observe that the word can be expressed by many interchangeable terms. Thus I do not feel bound to use your particular nomenclature

(2) Circumcision was an actual physical procedure. The idea that it represented an inward spiritual change came from the prophets and apostles. Not distinguishing between the physical and spiritual senses of circumcision leads to confusion and needless argument - which is what you have done here.

(3) If the practice of physical circumcision is still in effect, then you (or whatever sect you belong to) would have to ensure that every male convert joining your group had received the procedure.

(4) As regarding the historic (physical rite of) circumcision, I agree it had been a requirement for anyone who wanted to be part of the covenants of Abraham and Moses. However, the Apostles who were equipped and trained by Jesus to be "competent ministers of the New Covenant" (2 Corinthians 3:6) knew exactly what was required of those coming to faith in Jesus. When the elders and Apostles met to decide what would be expected of Gentile converts (Acts 15:1-35) they decided that God calls Gentiles to saving faith in Christ without requiring them to be circumcised and without committing themselves to observe all the other Jewish laws.

(5) There you will find the New Covenant being given for the first time
The NC was prophesied by Jeremiah but not GIVEN until the Lamb had offered up His life as a sacrifice to redeem a people for His name
Proof of this can be found in the Covenant supper Jesus held with the disciples. When Jesus offered the wine He said:
“This cup is the new covenant in My blood means that the wine of the Lord’s Supper stands as the legally binding, God-initiated pledge enacted by the sacrificial death of Christ. By drinking, believers corporately affirm their inclusion in that covenant, receive its benefits of forgiveness and Spirit-empowered transformation, proclaim Christ’s atoning death, and anticipate His victorious return.
 
Don't confuse the concepts of "keep" and "obey". We use the terms interchangeably, but they are distinct concepts in the Bible. To "obey" the law is to do what it says; to "keep" the law is to value, cherish, and protect it. When James says "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point" he is talking to people who value and cherish the entire law, but stumble at one point.

James is speaking into a culture that claims to value and cherish the Law of God, on the one hand, but acts as if the Law doesn't condemn them on the other hand. They believe themselves to be better or different from other men. They pay special attention to those who wear rich clothing but ignore the poor.

James knows what Paul also knows, that the Law speaks to those who are under the law, "so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God." Romans 3:19-20

Not only this, but Jesus tells a parable about a Pharisee and a Tax Gatherer to make the same point. The Pharisee thought he was better than other men. But the Tax Gatherer was on his knees repenting of his sins and asking God for mercy. In other words, all men are equally condemned by the Law.

James refers to the two commandments to love God and love our neighbor as the Royal Law. Therefore, when he says that faith without works is dead, he means that a claim to faith is empty unless it acts in accordance with the Royal law. He argues that a man who refuses to help his poor brother with resources that will sustain his life, that man's claim to believe God is suspect.

James is challenging the Pharisaical mindset that uses religion to satisfy its need for brotherhood, belonging, and approval. Jesus claims that they didn't believe him because they were seeking glory from other men rather than God. But in order to maintain the presumption of "righteousness" they changed the meaning of the Law in order to make it more "doable."

How did the Pharisees claim to believe God yet act contrary to that belief? They redefined terms. God commanded Israel to love their neighbor as themselves. In order to make it easier to obey, the Pharisees redefined "neighbor" to refer to another member of the brotherhood. They asked Jesus, "who is my neighbor?"


It depends on what you mean by "follow God." Following God looks different in different contexts. The sons of Israel were commanded to follow God in a unique and special way. Obeying the Law of Moses, outwardly marked a member of the people of God during the Old Covenant. During the New Covenant, the people of God are marked inwardly.


That's my point. Abraham only had a handful of commands to obey: leave your home, sacrifice your son, etc. God didn't require Abraham's father to leave home or sacrifice his son. God's commands to Abraham were unique for him. Likewise, God's commands for Israel were unique to them.

Again, the issue is the distinction between "keeping" a commandment and "doing" a commandment in light of Jesus' teaching. In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus taught the people to draw a distinction between self-righteousness and actual righteousness, using a formulaic speech structure. He repeated the phrases: "You have heard it said . . . but I tell you."

When Jesus speaks about "keeping" his commandments, he teaches his disciples to internalize the commandments and to think in terms of principles rather than rules. When He says “keep my commandments,” He is not training rule‑followers; He is training people whose inner life has been reshaped so that the commandments become the natural expression of who they are. Jesus is not saying, “Follow these rules.”He is saying, “Let my words become the operating system of your heart.”

Love one another as I have loved you.
That’s not a rule; that’s a pattern, a principle, a way of being.


Again, Jesus is not giving us rules to obey. He is giving us the reasons behind the rules. He is training his disciples to learn WHY God commands what he does.

For instance, God commands that a person build a parapet around his roof. Why? Is it that God is really into parapets? No. Rather, God values human life, which is why the parapets are necessary. If all we did was obey the rules, we might live an entire lifetime never thinking about what God values.

A father tells his son not to swing the baseball bat in the house. The underlying principle behind the rule is the value of life and property. But suppose there was a fire in the house, would the Father get angry or upset if the son used the baseball bat to break a window and escape the fire?

Peter asked Jesus about forgiveness, whether he should forgive his brother 7 times. He was attempting to quantify the rule. How many times must I forgive my brother in order to say that I have obeyed the rule? In Jesus view, we need to forgive our brother seventy times seven, which is not to say there is a limit to our forgiveness. He exaggerates to make another point.

Jesus is asking Peter, and us, to not only forgive our brother, but to WANT TO forgive our brother. Faith is what takes obedience beyond compliance. Faith says, I want to forgive my brother because I want forgiveness to be a part of my reality. I want to forgive others because I know that I need forgiveness from God.


I agree. However, it makes sense to focus on the commandments James mentions.

You try to separate “keep” from “obey,” but Scripture does not separate them the way you are using it. When God says to keep His commandments, it includes doing them, not just valuing them.

Jesus speaks plainly:

“If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.” (John 13:17 KJV)

He does not say blessed are you if you understand them, or cherish them, but if you do them.

And again:

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46 KJV)

So the issue is not people who fail to appreciate the law. The issue is people who do not do what God says.

You say James is speaking to people who “cherish” the law but stumble. But look at his own words:

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.” (James 2:12 KJV)

He brings it back to doing, not just valuing. And right before that, he points directly to the commandments: “Do not commit adultery” and “Do not kill.” These are not ideas to admire. These are commands to obey.

Then he says clearly:

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17 KJV)

A dead faith is not a faith that lacks understanding. It is a faith that does not act.

You are right that Jesus teaches the heart, but He never removes obedience. He deepens it. When He says, “Ye have heard… but I say unto you,” He is not replacing action with ideas. He is showing that obedience must come from the heart and also be lived out.

For example, He says not only do not kill, but do not hate. He makes the command stronger, not weaker.

And when He speaks about keeping His commandments, He ties it to action:

“If ye love me, keep my commandments.” (John 14:15 KJV)

Love is not just a feeling or a principle. It leads to obedience.

Even your example of forgiveness shows this. Yes, Jesus teaches us to desire forgiveness, but He also gives a clear condition:

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” (Matthew 6:14–15 KJV)

This is not only a lesson about values. This is something that must be done.

You also say that commands were different for different people. That is true in some details, but Jesus brings the path together for all:

“But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17 KJV)

And He shows the commandments about how we live and treat others. This is the way of life.

Then He gives this warning:

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21 KJV)

So, True faith does not only understand. True faith does not only value. True faith does what God says.

James is not correcting people who think too much about rules. He is correcting people who think belief alone is enough while they do nothing.

The heart matters. The reason behind the command matters. But if it never becomes obedience, then it is what Scripture calls it:

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17 KJV)
 
Because I understand how much pollution and poison is in the meat today.
Completely false and have you ever studied botany? You do realize that every plant you has been modified so much over the last thousand years that you wouldn’t recognize the original form. Do you realize how many toxins are in plants? Every plant has a chemical defense whether it be glycoalkaloids, lectins, cyanogenic glycosides, furocoumarins, cucurbitacins, oxalic acid, caramboxin, saponins, or goitrogens just to name a few.

Also any fruit or vegetable you buy in the store contains pesticides and herbicides. Even the so called organic ones are sprayed with ethylene gas to accelerate ripening or hypochlorous acid to preserve them. You should really study up. I won’t even start on how agriculture has destroyed millions of acres of animal habitat.
I do not say it is a sin to eat meat. God is Judge and there is no commandment about eating clean meat.

But knowing how bad things have become and how much better I feel eating a plant based diet I can conclude that it is healthier.
Not healthier at all. I could go into the human digestive system and tell you why if you’re interested.
Over time things have become much worse. Fish have lots more toxic elements in them.
False
So to answer your question... why am I a vegetarian. Because I feel better and healthier.
I know that people that are vegetarian live longer and I know that God's original diet was plant based.
And you definitely don’t know that people live longer on a vegetarian diet. My guess is you’re referring to the SDA studies done. Turns out the studies did nothing to prove eating vegetables were healthier than eating meat. The entire study was flawed and all they showed was eating natural was better than eating ultra processed food packed with sugar. The studies compared people eating a natural vegetarian diet to people eating McDonalds and drinking cokes. It did not compare people eating only vegetables to people eating only meat. You should do some research and quit relying on flawed studies. Oh and God’s original diet wasn’t plant based, it was just plants. If you want to go that route you might want to go vegan. You can’t claim to stick to God’s Eden diet while consuming anything other than plants. That’s being a hypocrite.
 
No sin killed Paul.
"..for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me."
Can you explain your reply with a bit more detail.

Did the the tenth commandment arouse that sin in Paul that deceived him and killed him?

Did the tenth commandment condemn Paul to death as a result of Paul's coveting?
 
You try to separate “keep” from “obey,” but Scripture does not separate them the way you are using it. When God says to keep His commandments, it includes doing them, not just valuing them.
Of Course. God wants both: obedience and internalization. That is not in question.
So the issue is not people who fail to appreciate the law. The issue is people who do not do what God says.
On the contrary, the issue is your interpretation of passages like Jon 14:15 where Jesus talks about keeping his commandments. Some Christians hear Jesus say "obey" his commandments, even though it actually says, "keep" his commandments.

In the New Testament, when Jesus speaks of “keeping my commandments,” the Greek word He uses is entolē (ἐντολή). While often translated as “commandments,” entolē is broader and more relational than the English suggests. It can refer not only to discrete rules but to a teacher’s whole body of instruction—His way, His pattern, His authoritative teaching. In John’s Gospel especially, entolē points to Jesus’ own words, example, and guiding principles, meaning that to “keep His commandments” is to internalize and live out His teaching rather than merely follow external rules.

Here is the principle at hand. Since Jesus said "keep" rather than "obey," then we should ask whether he meant "teaching" rather than "commandments." The phrase "obey my commandments" is a completely different idea from "keep my teachings."


You say James is speaking to people who “cherish” the law but stumble. But look at his own words:

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.” (James 2:12 KJV)
Yes, I base my statement on James 2:10, where he says, "whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles . . ." His statement makes no sense if "keep" is synonymous with obey. Logically, if one is obeying the law, he is not stumbling. But one can cherish the law even while stumbling.

He brings it back to doing, not just valuing. And right before that, he points directly to the commandments: “Do not commit adultery” and “Do not kill.” These are not ideas to admire. These are commands to obey.
Undoubtedly, but the question is whether Jesus was talking about commandments to obey or teachings to follow.
You are right that Jesus teaches the heart, but He never removes obedience. He deepens it. When He says, “Ye have heard… but I say unto you,” He is not replacing action with ideas. He is showing that obedience must come from the heart and also be lived out.
I agree. But remember, his audience are his kinsmen, and he is talking about issues that pertain to the Old Covenant.
You also say that commands were different for different people. That is true in some details, but Jesus brings the path together for all:

“But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17 KJV)
Did you notice what Jesus tells the man, "Go and sell your possessions and give it to the poor." That is not a commandment the man would have found in his scriptures. Jesus' "commandment" was specific to the man, not obligatory on the rest of humanity.
So, True faith does not only understand. True faith does not only value. True faith does what God says.
What God says is sometimes universal, such as "thou shalt not murder," and sometimes contextual as it "thou shall do no work on a Saturday."
James is not correcting people who think too much about rules. He is correcting people who think belief alone is enough while they do nothing.
I understand what you are saying, but James is reacting to the partiality of some who claim to have faith.
The heart matters. The reason behind the command matters. But if it never becomes obedience, then it is what Scripture calls it:

“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17 KJV)
In this instance, the "works" of faith are impartiality.
 
Obviously the law being referred to is the Ten Commandments.

Often Paul will use the term law to refer to the book of the law what was beside the ark Deut4:13 written by Moses, not God.
That division that you inserted to divide the law into the ten commandments and the ordinances.

Is incorrect according to what is stated in Exodus 24, which is the original covenant ratified at Mt Sinai.

The book of the law is actually called "the book of the covenant" in Exodus 24.

The book of the covenant contains both the ten commandments and the ordinances together.

Exodus 24:3-7
Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the
people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!”
Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at
the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. He sent young men of
the sons of Israel, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as peace offerings to the Lord.
Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and the other half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said,
"All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!”

That is why the SDA never quotes from Exodus 24.

The entire law was spoken first to Israel at Mt Sinai and recorded in the book of the covenant.

Exodus 24, nullifies your sleight of hand with the stone tablets and the Ark of the covenant.
 
That division that you inserted to divide the law into the ten commandments and the ordinances.

Is incorrect according to what is stated in Exodus 24, which is the original covenant ratified at Mt Sinai.

The book of the law is actually called "the book of the covenant" in Exodus 24.

The book of the covenant contains both the ten commandments and the ordinances together.

Exodus 24:3-7
Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the
people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!”
Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at
the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. He sent young men of
the sons of Israel, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as peace offerings to the Lord.
Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and the other half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said,
"All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!”

That is why the SDA never quotes from Exodus 24.

The entire law was spoken first to Israel at Mt Sinai and recorded in the book of the covenant.

Exodus 24, nullifies your sleight of hand with the stone tablets and the Ark of the covenant.
And as I have shown you more than once, the book of the law was besides the ark of the covenant written by Moses

Deut 31:24 ;So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26;“Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

The Ten Commandments was written by God Himself, not Moses

Exo 24:12 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.”

They were not besides the ark, they were inside the ark of the covenant under the mercy seat of God

Exo 25:21You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you

The Testimony is the Ten Commandments Deut4:13 Exo31:18 written divinely by God, not man,
 
And as I have shown you more than once, the book of the law was besides the ark of the covenant written by Moses
Your contradicting Exodus 24.

Exodus 24:3-7
Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the
people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!”
Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord.

Your trying to infer that Moses did not write all the words of the Lord.

Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord.

I will ask you a straight question SabbathBlessing?

Did Moses write down ALL THE WORDS of the Lord and the ordinances in a book of the covenant, in Exodus 24:3-7?

You realize that Moses read the book of the covenant and they said we will obey!
 
Your contradicting Exodus 24.

Exodus 24:3-7
Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the
people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!”
Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord.

Your trying to infer that Moses did not write all the words of the Lord.

Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord.

I will ask you a straight question SabbathBlessing?

Did Moses write down ALL THE WORDS of the Lord and the ordinances in a book of the covenant, in Exodus 24:3-7?

You realize that Moses read the book of the covenant and they said we will obey!
Yes, it context to what was in the book of the law. The law of Moses.

God Himself spoke to the people the Ten Commandments His commandments Exo20:6


Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

And after God spoke Him God wrote them Himself and added no more! Deut5:22

Exo 24:12 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.”

Moses claimed no part of the Testimony of God-Exo31:18 its the works of God, not man.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

This cannot be made more plain in our Bibles.
 
The followiing excerpt from a SDA participant in this thread beautifully portrays the actual belief that our own efforts are what saves us. Scripture teaches that God no longers remembers our sins because we no longer commit them is found exactly and absolutely NOWHERE WHATSOEVER in either the old or new testaments.

Yes, if we are in a covenant relationship where His laws are written in our minds to do them and written in our hearts because we want to do them by love- in this covenant He remembers our sins no more because we are no longer doing so, we are submitting to the Holy Spirit and though our love for Him- we are keeping the covenant God gave us and obeying His commandments through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant and His death and resurrection is the foundation of the promise:

And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. Luke 22:20

The new covenant was prophesied in the old testament through God's prophets Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel and others. In fact Isaiah wrote of the coming Messiah in comparison, as a sheep led to the slaughter. Blood would be shed. Jesus plainly said His blood was the new covenant. (Isaiah 53)

Jesus instigated the new covenant; our efforts have neither instigated it nor do they sustain it. We receive the 'new heart'promised when we accept Jesus as the one who took our place and died the death we deserve, in separation from God.

Saying that God does not remember our sins because we no longer commit them is absolute heresy. This is a fantasy of self aggrandizement and self righteousness. Here is what the Bible really says:

1For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would not the offerings have ceased? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt the guilt of their sins.

3Instead, those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,

but a body You prepared for Me.

6In burnt offerings and sin offerings

You took no delight.

7Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll:

I have come to do Your will, O God.’

8In the passage above He says, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor did You delight in them” (although they are offered according to the law). 9Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

There is no such thing as our efforts at perfection have caused God to forgive or forget our sins. The only way to have your sins forgiven is through the blood of Jesus. What this poster has written, quoted above, is actual heresy.' No one is saved by being 'good' and no one is made 'perfect' on this earth. The perfect is the sacrifice of Jesus which God has accepted and when we are in Christ, when we have accepted Him, have received the Holy Spirit and are renewing our minds in the word and agreeing with God instead of rebelling against Him, THAT is when our sins are not only forgiven...BUT God does not even remember them.

As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us. Psalm 103:12

Only God forgives sin. Our desire should be to please Him but we cannot fullfill the law as He requires. Only Jesus can and has done that.
 
The followiing excerpt from a SDA participant in this thread beautifully portrays the actual belief that our own efforts are what saves us. Scripture teaches that God no longers remembers our sins because we no longer commit them is found exactly and absolutely NOWHERE WHATSOEVER in either the old or new testaments.



Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant and His death and resurrection is the foundation of the promise:

And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. Luke 22:20

The new covenant was prophesied in the old testament through God's prophets Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel and others. In fact Isaiah wrote of the coming Messiah in comparison, as a sheep led to the slaughter. Blood would be shed. Jesus plainly said His blood was the new covenant. (Isaiah 53)

Jesus instigated the new covenant; our efforts have neither instigated it nor do they sustain it. We receive the 'new heart'promised when we accept Jesus as the one who took our place and died the death we deserve, in separation from God.

Saying that God does not remember our sins because we no longer commit them is absolute heresy. This is a fantasy of self aggrandizement and self righteousness. Here is what the Bible really says:

1For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would not the offerings have ceased? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt the guilt of their sins.

3Instead, those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,

but a body You prepared for Me.

6In burnt offerings and sin offerings

You took no delight.

7Then I said, ‘Here I am, it is written about Me in the scroll:

I have come to do Your will, O God.’

8In the passage above He says, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor did You delight in them” (although they are offered according to the law). 9Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

There is no such thing as our efforts at perfection have caused God to forgive or forget our sins. The only way to have your sins forgiven is through the blood of Jesus. What his poster has written, quoted above, is actual heresy and a lie. No one is saved by being 'good' and no is made 'perfect' on this earth. The perfect is the sacrifice of Jesus which God has accepted and when we are in Christ, when we have accepted Him, have received the Holy Spirit and are renewing our minds in the word and agreeing with God instead of rebelling against Him, THAT is when our sins are not only forgiven...BUT God does not even remember them.

As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us. Psalm 103:12

Only God forgives sin. Our desire should be to please Him but we cannot fullfill the law as He requires. Only Jesus can and has done that.
According to what God said the New Covenant is His laws written on the hearts and minds of His NC believer Heb8:10

Is it in your view that what God writes on the hearts and minds of His people cannot keep them through the power of the Holy Spirit John14:15-18 that the devil has more power to keep people in sin than Jesus does to save us from our sins? The issue is not the the devil has more power the issue is people do not want to leave their sins behind John3:19-21 Pro28:13

In my Bible we are told there is a people who can keep the commandments of God overcomes

Rev14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. And this faith and love in Christ that keeps God's commandments and reconciles His people back to Him Rev22:14NKJV

So in your view did Jesus misspeak here?