The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[TMS]

Aren't all Christians indwelt by the Spirit? Does He leave you when you sin?

Again, fine platitudes, but who is more responsible for you walking in the Spirit? You? Or the God at work in your?

Can you tell me how to obey the command to do all to the glory of God in the drinking of a glass of orange juice?

Look at Saul in the OT.

He choose to disobey God. He choose to sin.

1Sa 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

Sin, his chooses, seperated him from God.

When we sin we are seperated from God

God does not leave us or forsake us. We leave God, we forsake Him by sinning.

He will often seek us out and if we repent He will restore peace in us.

Can we have Guilt and peace at the same time? No
We can't have sin and the presence of God at the same time.

Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

1Jn 1:9 KJV If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Isa 48:22 There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.
Isa 57:21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

Peace comes from God and iniquity drives God away.

He wants to be near us but our sin seperates us.

Repent and turn from your sins.

I'm sure you have felt the Holy Spirit talk to your Heart.
If you keep ignoring God and harden your heart you can not hear Him anymore.

 

[Cameron143]

Look at Saul in the OT.

He choose to disobey God. He choose to sin.

1Sa 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

Sin, his chooses, seperated him from God.

When we sin we are seperated from God

God does not leave us or forsake us. We leave God, we forsake Him by sinning.

He will often seek us out and if we repent He will restore peace in us.

Can we have Guilt and peace at the same time? No
We can't have sin and the presence of God at the same time.

Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

1Jn 1:9 KJV If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Isa 48:22 There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.
Isa 57:21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

Peace comes from God and iniquity drives God away.

He wants to be near us but our sin seperates us.

Repent and turn from your sins.

I'm sure you have felt the Holy Spirit talk to your Heart.
If you keep ignoring God and harden your heart you can not hear Him anymore.

You seem to believe Saul was saved.

Being separated from God as a result of sin doesn't necessitate the loss of salvation; merely the privileges of it. Are you suggesting that someone who was previously saved and sins is no longer saved?

Any comment as to the source of obedience?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The clear teaching of the New Testament is that believers have freedom to worship the Lord, or to honor ANY DAY they choose,
or NONE AT ALL. Paul told the Colossian church not to be intimidated by Judaizers and Sabbathkeepers (which we have seen much of in this forum)
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, [i.e., by whether we do or do not eat kosher ]
or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, [whether or not we keep the Jewish festivals]
or of the sabbath days: [which includes both weekly and festival sabbaths]
17 Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Colossians 2:16-17)
This is a simple clear warning about "SabbathBlessing" and those of his party who act as judges or inspectors over the Body of Christ.

In case we did not understand this, the Apostle adds more on this subject in
Romans 14:4-14:
1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on his opinions. 2 For one person has faith to eat all things, while another, who is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The one who eats everything must not belittle the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted him.
Here the "one who is weak in faith" is someone who believes he must only eat the foods commanded in the dietary Laws of Moses.

4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes a SPECIAL DAY does so to the Lord; he who eats does so to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
When he talks about "keeping certain days and observing A SPECIAL DAY does this not include also keeping Shabbat?
Paul is warning us not to heed self-appointed 'Shabbat-cops"

These verses are taken out of context.

Col2:14-15 is speaking of shadow sabbath(s) which are connected to animal sacrifices. What was handwritten by Moses, not one of the commandments of God. The context of Romans 14 is found in verse 1 which is about how to handle personal opinions or disputes. Why is says what man esteems over another not what God esteems, since when does man govern God and not the other way around. Its why we have a clear salvation warning with Paul's writings and what people would do with them. In Col 2 Paul says this:

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. So Paul is not going to proceed after saying this and countermand Christ's owns teachings Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Mat5:19-30 Mark2:27-28 John14:15 John15:10

It will be hard to make the case the Sabbath is not according to Christ when He in His own words said He is LORD of the Sabbath, what is the point of being LORD of the Sabbath that He said is made for man- if all man does it try to tear down what Jesus is Lord of. Would you like someone coming into your house what you are lord of and telling you to tear it down its worthless.

Why would anyone want to do this if they love and serve Christ John14:15 Isa 56:6. Certainly not Paul. He faithfully kept the Sabbath every Sabbath decades and decades after the Cross Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 because that is according to Christ- He spoke it He wrote it He asked us to Remember it, Paul would never countermand Christ, why we have this plain warning about his writing. If God tells us to keep the commandments of God and someone else you think says not to, which voice are you going to listen to.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Faith is defined in Hebrews 11:1. There is nothing there about obedience.

Don't bother stating that Moses was not the author of the commandments; that's a red herring.

Where was the Law given? At Sinai. Do you have a problem with that? Get over it.

Who said God is not allowed to define His own laws, etc.? Not I.

Deal with what I wrote, not with your knee-jerk reaction to it.

Read the rest of Hebrews 11 because it clearly show it produces action, not disobedience.

 

[TMS]

I think the grave mistake people make is trying to define love as a feeling, something arbitrary that is dependent of each individual.

Good point.
If people think true love is a feeling, they will feel like obeying one day and not feel like keeping the commandments the next. Like the waves... no foundation.
Feelings change and the devil uses the emotions.

True love is a principle. And we can see the principle in the life of Jesus and those that follow Jesus.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

When the message of salvation first went out, The Apostles had to contend for the faith against those called Judaizers who affirmed the Messiahship of Jesus but taught that certain requirements, customs and practices of the OLD COVENANT had to be practiced before a person could be truly saved. The word Judaizer comes from a Greek verb meaning “to live according to Jewish customs.” The word appears in Galatians 2:14 where Paul describes how he confronted Peter for forcing Gentile Christians to “Judaize.” Judaizers taught that, in order person to be acceptable to God" they had first to conform to all the customs and practices which were required of Jews under the Mosaic Law. This naturally would include the practices of keeping Shabbat.

At one time I knew a (Gentile) woman who had converted to Judaism. She described it as a year-long process. First, she had to be sponsored by a Rabbi. Following this was a year of study about Jewish law and culture. This culminated in an interview before a beit din or Rabbinical Court. Finally came the mikvah or ritual immersion in which she had to be submerged (naked) in a pool of water.
Male converts who wanted to join the covenant had to be circumcised. Once I knew someone who was circumcised as an adult. He said recovery was a very painful process. Paul, who was trained to be a rabbi understood the requirements that had to be met. He
undertook the task of circumcising Timothy whose father was Greek. He did it because he knew that he would not be accepted by any Jewish audience unless he was.

The Judaizers, taught that in order to be saved from sin, male converts had to receive circumcision which was the seal and sign of the covenant of both Abraham and Moses. In their thinking, non-covenant Gentiles had to first become Jewish proselytes before they could brought into covenant with Christ. Thus the doctrine of the Judaizers was a mixture of GRACE (through Christ) and works (works meaning actions required by the Law). The idea that the gospel is a hybrid of grace and "works of the Law" was utterly rejected by Paul, as well as Peter and the other apostles who had been taught by Jesus.

One of the fundamental "works" that had to be done was receiving circumcision. Circumcision had been required for centuries, of all who had been born into the family of Abraham as well as all those who wanted to join in the covenant of Abraham and Moses. Having known someone who was circumcised as an adult, I can say that this was a painful process that shows more commitment than merely refraining from work on the Seventh Day.

When it comes to obeying Christ from the heart you Sabbatarians impress me as dilettantes - obeying the easiest commands (like refraining from labor on Shabbat) while rejecting what Jesus called "weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness." which necessarily includes bringing perishing souls to repentance and reconciliation with God. Instead, your goal seems to be getting people to practice Judaism more assiduously.

There is no circumcision in the Ten Commandments, the commandments of God. The Ten Commandments are all about how God Himself tells us how to love Him Exo20:6 John14:15 and worship Him Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13 Rev14:7 Exo20:11

Why Paul said:
1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.


The law of Moses which contained circumcision was because of sin for breaking the law of God, the Ten Commandments why it was outside the ark of God, the Ten Commandments was inside and the blood covered the sins from the broken law of the Ten Commandments why this law is under His mercy seat -in heaven Heb8:1-5 Heb9:23-24 Rev11:19 because final atonement has not happened.

The Ten Commandments was never called the Ten recommendations or select the commandments you feel are appropriate, this makes one their own god. The issue has never been the law of God, its perfect Psa19:7 and holy Rom7:12 written by God Himself Exo31:18 Deut4:13. The issue is our hardened heart who want all His blessings but on our terms and not His Isa 56:2 we want to serve Him, not on His terms Isa 56:6 but on our own. Its nothing new under the sun sadly, its the same story repeated over and over again in Scripture- our will over God's. Mat7:21-23 Heb4:11 Heb3:7-19

 

[Dino246]

Read the rest of Hebrews 11 because it clearly show it produces action, not disobedience.

This is tiresome. You keep corrupting words in a ridiculous effort to refute my position.

Obedience IS NOT MENTIONED in the definition of faith. Does that imply IN ANY WAY that disobedience somehow is? Don't be dense!

 

[TMS]

If your motive is love, one would magnify the source of that love, and not the action of it.

Again, can you tell me how to obey the command to do all to the glory of God in the drinking of a glass of orange juice?

God is the source of Love and righteousness

Ask God how to obey the law..
God has told me in the bible and the law.

Search and you will find.

Frontal lobe is the place that all choices are made
Use your brain and choose to follow the commands of God. If you struggled, pray.

Search and Pray.
Read. Listen. To Bible truth.
Surrender self, and follow God's directions.

Does that answer your question about how to obey God?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Faith is defined in Hebrews 11:1. There is nothing there about obedience.

Don't bother stating that Moses was not the author of the commandments; that's a red herring.

Where was the Law given? At Sinai. Do you have a problem with that? Get over it.

Who said God is not allowed to define His own laws, etc.? Not I.

Deal with what I wrote, not with your knee-jerk reaction to it.

This is what true faith looks like:

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

The faith part is what saves, the action part always follows true faith to prove ones faith is genuine or not. Anyone can say LORD LORD, God is looking for doers of His word, not just hearers James1:22 Rev22:14KJV

 

[Rob7]

The problem here is not the ideas I allegedly promote, but your misrepresentation and lack of comprehension thereof.

Your problem here, is "your misrepresentation and lack of comprehension thereof," of being a Christian, an obedient Child of God.

 

[markss]

Meh. God looks beyond words and sees what's truly in our hearts, who the hypocrits are and who genuinely belong to Him. No one can fool Him.


🕊

You are not fooling me. You certainly don't fool God. Your posts reveal your heart. Think about that for a bit!

Much love!

 

[Dino246]

This is what true faith looks like:

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

The faith part is what saves, the action part always follows true faith to prove ones faith is genuine or not. Anyone can say LORD LORD, God is looking for doers of His word, not just hearers James1:22 Rev22:14KJV

You just can't admit when you're wrong, can you?

Where in the definition of faith does the concept of "obedience" appear? Nowhere.

What you have given is one example of someone who exercised faith by obeying. Out of all the examples provided in Hebrews 11, how many involve obedience, according to the text?
Let's take a look:

Verse 3: no.
V. 4: no.
V. 5: no.
V. 6: nothing is said about obedience when it comes to pleasing God.
V. 7: no, even though he was doing as God directed, the obedience is not mentioned here.
V. 9: no.
V. 11: no.
V. 17: no, though again it is action at God's direction, obedience is not mentioned.
V. 20: no.
V. 21: no.
V. 22: no.
V. 23: no.
V. 24: no.
V. 27: no.
V. 28: no.
V. 29: no.
V. 30: no.
V. 31: no.

What more shall I say? You need to rethink your position in light of the whole chapter. Cherry-picking clearly is not doing anything for you.

 

[Dino246]

Your problem here, is "your misrepresentation and lack of comprehension thereof," of being a Christian, an obedient Child of God.

Your baseless slander will stand against you at the judgment.

 

[Cameron143]

God is the source of Love and righteousness

Ask God how to obey the law..
God has told me in the bible and the law.

Search and you will find.

Frontal lobe is the place that all choices are made
Use your brain and choose to follow the commands of God. If you struggled, pray.

Search and Pray.
Read. Listen. To Bible truth.
Surrender self, and follow God's directions.

Does that answer your question about how to obey God?

I have no problem obeying God. It's easy. All I have to do is follow the Shepherd. He leads me in the way of righteousness. I don't spend my time trying to obey. I simply follow Proverbs 3:5-6. I trust God and He directs my path.

God isn't merely the source of love and righteousness; He is also the source of obedience. That's the promise of the new covenant. Read Ezekiel 36:26-27. Who does it say causes an individual to walk in His statutes? Obedience is built into the new covenant. It is part and parcel of what it is to be a child of God.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You just can't admit when you're wrong, can you?

Where in the definition of faith does the concept of "obedience" appear? Nowhere.

What you have given is one example of someone who exercised faith by obeying. Out of all the examples provided in Hebrews 11, how many involve obedience, according to the text?
Let's take a look:

Verse 3: no.
V. 4: no.
V. 5: no.
V. 6: nothing is said about obedience when it comes to pleasing God.
V. 7: no, even though he was doing as God directed, the obedience is not mentioned here.
V. 9: no.
V. 11: no.
V. 17: no, though again it is action at God's direction, obedience is not mentioned.
V. 20: no.
V. 21: no.
V. 22: no.
V. 23: no.
V. 24: no.
V. 27: no.
V. 28: no.
V. 29: no.
V. 30: no.
V. 31: no.

What more shall I say? You need to rethink your position in light of the whole chapter. Cherry-picking clearly is not doing anything for you.

I never said it was the definition of faith, it what proceeds faith Rom3:31 just like everyone in Hebrews 11 it produced action.


Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.


Faith at the Dawn of History

4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Faithful Abraham

8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.


The Heavenly Hope

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.


The Faith of the Patriarchs

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones.


The Faith of Moses

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.
24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, 26 esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.

True faith leads to actions. Disobedience is still rebellion, sin and unbelief all used interchangeably Heb3:7-19


If you wish to believe faith yields disobedience to what God asks, I guess that's a choice one can make. Its not the one He asks us to. Luke6:46-49

 

[Dino246]

I never said it was the definition of faith,

You don't read too good. Try addressing what I actually write instead of typing knee-jerk reactions.

it what proceeds faith Rom3:31 just like everyone in Hebrews 11 it produced action.

You don't write too good either. That doesn't even make sense.

True faith leads to actions.

I have never argued otherwise.

If you wish to believe faith yields disobedience to what God asks, I guess that's a choice one can make. Its not the one He asks us to. Luke6:46-49

Goodness, you really are persistent with your corruptions. Where did I ever imply that faith yields disobedience?

 

[TMS]

You seem to believe Saul was saved.

Being separated from God as a result of sin doesn't necessitate the loss of salvation; merely the privileges of it. Are you suggesting that someone who was previously saved and sins is no longer saved?

Any comment as to the source of obedience?

I didn't say Saul was saved or unsaved.
God is Judge. I said sin seperated Saul from God.

We can be forgiven from sin but we are not saved if sin is not forgiven.

Justice matters

If we are not covered by the blood of Jesus (unforgiven) we will face the results of sin. Bear the consequences of sin ourself.

Sin = death

Can we have sins unforgiven and be saved?

Rom 6:22-23
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

 

[Cameron143]

I didn't say Saul was saved or unsaved.
God is Judge. I said sin seperated Saul from God.

We can be forgiven from sin but we are not saved if sin is not forgiven.

Justice matters

If we are not covered by the blood of Jesus (unforgiven) we will face the results of sin. Bear the consequences of sin ourself.

Sin = death

Can we have sins unforgiven and be saved?

Rom 6:22-23
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Have you confessed every sin you have committed? Do you know every sin you have committed?

The subject wasn't about forgiveness of sin. The subject was the source of obedience. Who is the source of one's obedience? How is obedience accomplished?

 

[TMS]

I have no problem obeying God. It's easy. All I have to do is follow the Shepherd. He leads me in the way of righteousness. I don't spend my time trying to obey. I simply follow Proverbs 3:5-6. I trust God and He directs my path.

God isn't merely the source of love and righteousness; He is also the source of obedience. That's the promise of the new covenant. Read Ezekiel 36:26-27. Who does it say causes an individual to walk in His statutes? Obedience is built into the new covenant. It is part and parcel of what it is to be a child of God.

Is anything we need to do?

As my shepherd I look at the bible and the life of Jesus. It is the source of wisdom and understanding. It guilds my steps.

If the bible tells me to go left and a spirit tells me to go right, which one should I follow. ???

If the bible states that the commandments are good and holy and just but the spirit filled preacher states that the commandments are death and bondage, which one should I follow???

 

[Cameron143]

Is anything we need to do?

As my shepherd I look at the bible and the life of Jesus. It is the source of wisdom and understanding. It guilds my steps.

If the bible tells me to go left and a spirit tells me to go right, which one should I follow. ???

If the bible states that the commandments are good and holy and just but the spirit filled preacher states that the commandments are death and bondage, which one should I follow???

Silly. The Spirit doesn't act contrary to the word God.

You don't realize it but you just showed you don't know what it is to walk in the Spirit.