The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
- Thread starter vassal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
How is it a shadow when Jesus and Paul and James in the New Testament say we should obey the 10 commandments?
How is it a shadow when God made it holy and hallowed it before sin?
Like I said .. "That's why you don't understand it."
You are not very good at rational thought, Biblical or otherwise,
eg. " just as a dead body is evidence for a murder," ... that's NOT rational !;-)
a dead body could be evidence of a natural old age death, or suicide.
You would not make a good lawyer ... just as you are not representative Christian character.
You really need to repent and pray for the Holy Spirit, so that you will understand LOVE for our God and our fellow man.
I'm sure you think me vindictive and unkind, but I'm really pointing this out so that you might rethink your position of disobedience, siding with the "man of lawlessness" ... cuz you're under a "strong delusion ~ believing a lie" ~~>2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
Come over to the Winning Side, praising, honoring and giving Glory to the Creator God.
I Pray !!
We disagree. About the conditions.
There are alot of "ifs" in the bible.
Conditions
The Holy Spirit is Conditional.
There are choices we make which can cause the Spirit of God to leave and there are choices we make that causes the Spirit of God to fill us.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Walking after the flesh = condemnation.
Walking after the flesh = no Holy Spirit.
Rom 8:7-9
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
1Co 3:16-17
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
O.s.a.s. is a deception of Satan.
The devil does not ask permission to come in he just enters those that do not contain the Spirit of God.
"A spirit" of the devil does exist and you are kidding yourself if you think these evil spirits do no work in people.
It is an evil world because of these evil spirits that are so ready to enter us.
Our only protection is the continual choice to walk in the Spirit.
"If"
Yes if you walk in the light.
Jesus gave a warning to those who had been impressed by His words, who had heard Him gladly, but who had not surrendered themselves for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is not only by resistance but by neglect that the soul is destroyed. “When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man,” said Jesus, “he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there.”
There were many in Christ’s day, as there are today, over whom the control of Satan for the time seemed broken; through the grace of God they were set free from the evil spirits that had held dominion over the soul. They rejoiced in the love of God; but, like the stony-ground hearers of the parable, they did not abide in His love. They did not surrender themselves to God daily, that Christ might dwell in the heart; and when the evil spirit returned, with “seven other spirits more wicked than himself,” they were wholly dominated by the power of evil.
Although covenant can have many applications and shades of meaning (according to who is establishing the bond) I am looking specifically at how it was used when it applies to GOD establishing covenants with MAN. Here, it is deeper and more comprehensive and than merely a verbal agreement or contract. Perhaps you would describe the marriage covenant as just an agreement or contract. If so do not tell your wife who would probably be offended that you hold your commitment to her to be no deeper than a contract.
The Biblical definition of a covenant can be easily seen when we examine the word for covenant and the rituals associated with it. First the Hebrew word translated "covenant" is briyth (בְּרִית) which means "to eat" (or cut - in the sense of "cutting" food) Literally, it speaks of two parties sharing a meal. Deeper significance can be found in the fact that when two people marry they partake of each other's life and become one. The, idea of sharing life was very closely associated with BLOOD which was believed to be the source of life. So covenants were almost always sanctified by the shedding of blood
When males and females enter into sexual union God says they become ONE. This unity is far deeper and more binding than any external agreement or marriage license. Breaking a covenant is also a far more serious crime than breaking a rental agreement. Our God honors covenants because He Himself is a covenant-keeping God. It seems to me, that you are far more interested in the laws of covenant than in the Bridegroom Himself.
When God made a covenant with Abraham He did not simply have the Patriarch PROMISE to obey a SET OF RULES, though, that too was understood to be a part of the covenant bond. Instead of taking this mystery into consideration you immediately revert to your fascination in the statutory laws of Moses.
Jesus when He came, made a NEW COVENANT with Israel using the language of blood covenants.
26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is My body. 27 Then He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Forming a NEW covenant, the writer of Hebrews tells us, makes the prior covenant OBSOLETE (Hebrews 8:13) The verb for "having made something obsolete" is πεπαλαίωκεν (pepalaiōken) which means: to make (passively, become) worn out, or declare obsolete -- decay, make (wax) old. By the time Messiah appeared the Old Covenant had already reached the end of its usefulness and was "about to vanish away." We can still celebrate the Festivals but such is no longer a requirement
I would say you do not understand the point the "spirit filled preacher" was making. Although Paul said:
22 For in my inner being I DELIGHT in God’s law (Romans 7:22)
He was honest enough to admit that His admiration for the law did not keep him from disobeying it:
23 But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me (Romans 7:22)
Before we have the experience of repeatedly being unable to behave and think as God wants us to we are like children who assume they have no faults and cannot be tempted. I have asked children in my Sunday school whether they thought they could be perfect they usually agree....before experience teaches them about how crooked they can be.
Yes... let's do that, and we will see you fail to refute me.
Streeeeetch.
Two men walking together don't need obedience as part of their relationship. The text says nothing whatsoever about Enoch "obeying" God. An argument from silence is not valid.
Miss the point much? Did I say anything about Cain? No. I said Abel. Did God tell Abel what to offer? No.
You didn't pay attention, and you didn't do your homework!
Per Hebrews 11:24: Where did God tell Moses not to be known as the son of Pharaoh's daughter? Oh... it's not there!
Per Hebrews 11:27: Where did God tell Moses to leave Egypt the first time? Oh... it's not there!
If you choose to argue with me while being ignorant and lazy, I will happily expose you for it. I don't suffer fools.
Where did God tell her to do that? Once again, it's not there! No command, no direction, no obedience... period.
Laughably irrelevant because there are no "words" to hear (and therefore obey) in all these cases.
Also irrelevant. What we have in Hebrews 11--over and over--is people doing things out of faith with no direction to do those things.
You failed. Massively.
Hebrews 11 reveals this: faith that pleases God does not necessarily involve obedience!
Yes, the old covenant is obsolete, because the people broke the covenant, otherwise God would have never made a new one. But He wants to be in a covenant with His people, so makes a New Covenant, first brought up in Ezekiel and Jeremiah, so it would have to be known to them. The New Covenant or agreement according to God took the law of God inward- I will write My laws on their inward parts, I will write them on their hearts and minds. Heb8:10 Jer 31:33-34 The law of God did not change- who can define God's laws but God Himself? Exo20:6 Exo20:1-17 Exo31:18 Deut4:13 No one. He said He would not alter the words Psa89:34 He said His laws are written on the heart and mind. Heb8:10 Why the NC is established on better promises- Heb8:6 I wish people would focus on those better promises. instead of trying to make it as if God made an error with His holy law. He didn't, the issue has always been the harden heart of man. Why God changed the location. Why its still a sin to break the law of God in the NC 1John3:4 breaking one we break them all James2:10-12 and it puts one according to Jesus in fear of sin and judgement Mat5:19-30 instead of being faithful to God trusting what He said Rev14:12
Did I say that a dead body is necessarily evidence for a murder? No, but you would rather look for opportunities to insult and throw shade than spend three seconds thinking.
Yes- God's law that Paul is speaking of that He delights to do "God's law" in His inner being- where God placed "His laws" in the heart Heb8:10
Which law is that....
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Which law is Paul quoting? Which law did God say "You shall not covet" only the Ten Commandments. The apostles never dismantled God's Ten Commandments, not once because who is above God to remove even a jot or tittle of God's laws written by God Himself, when He said He would not? Mat5:18-19 Psa89:34 God numbered His commandments Ten Exo34:28 Deut4:13 and added its the only law He numbered and God does everything by design, He even said "Remember" on the one commandment He made for mankind that mankind wants to forget that points us to our Creator Exo20:11 the one God we are to worship Rev14:7
Why Paul said this quoting from the Ten Commandments:
Rom7:12Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
Because it was written personally by the Holy Spirit Exo31:18 that always included the 4th commandment that God never treated any different than any of the other nine commandments.
But this is the war Paul speaks of:
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God (Ten Commandments) according to the inward man. Heb8:10
23: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members
The law of sin that brings us in captivity is the law of sin, that is the person who is not delighting in the law of God but refuses to subject themselves to the law of God
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
The Ten Commandments is the law of God that He writes in our minds to know and do them and in our hearts because we delight to do the will of God through love Exo20:6 John14:15
Will we be free of the law of sin and death that brings us in captivity to sin Rom6:23- sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4- which one always points to the Ten Commandments- breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 why the Bible calls the Ten Commandments the law of liberty because it frees us from sin- why its God's Truth Psa119:151 and only His Truth sets us free.
Jesus is the Truth John 14:6
All His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151
His Word is Truth John 17:17
His Truth sets us free John 8:32
Trust God! If we trust Him on 9 of His Ten Commandments, Trust Him on all of them, the one He said Remember, that the God of heaven Blessed and sanctified for us and told us to Remember.
You are absolutely right that covenant is far deeper than a contract and that God is a covenant keeping God. That an important truth that all needs to hear.
But I want to address the main conclusion you draw because it runs directly into the words of Jesus Himself and that is something we cannot step around regardless of how well the argument is constructed.
You suggest that the New Covenant made the commandments no longer required. But on the very same night Jesus established that New Covenant with His blood He said this to His disciples:
If ye love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
And then again:
He that hath my commandments and keepeth them he it is that loveth me and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father and I will love him and will manifest myself to him. (John 14:21)
The same Jesus who took the cup and said this is my blood of the New Covenant turned to His disciples that same evening and tied love for Him directly and inseparably to keeping His commandments. He never presented these as contradictory. He presented them as one.
You also suggest that focusing on the commandments means being more interested in laws than in the Bridegroom Himself. But the Bridegroom disagrees with that conclusion. He is the one who said keeping His commandments is one of the clearest expressions of genuine love for Him. We did not say that. He did.
And before that evening He had already declared:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you till heaven and earth pass away one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5:17-18)
Heaven and earth are still here. According to Jesus not one jot or tittle has passed. That is not our interpretation. Those are His exact words.
The New Covenant is indeed glorious and deeper than anything that came before it. But its glory is not that it freed us from God's commandments. Its glory is that it writes those same commandments on transformed hearts by the Holy Spirit so that we keep them not from fear or obligation but from genuine overflowing love for the One who saved us. Jeremiah saw this centuries before Christ:
I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and will be their God and they shall be my people.(Jeremiah 31:33)
Same law. Written deeper. On a heart that loves God genuinely. That is the New Covenant. And it was always the plan.
And this brings us to a question I and others too certainly would genuinely love for you to answer clearly because it is at the heart of everything being discussed here. God Himself defined His covenant. He did not leave it vague or open to interpretation. He spoke it with His own voice, wrote it with His own finger on tablets of stone and declared it to His people. Those ten words are the covenant. Moses confirmed this directly:
And he declared unto you his covenant which he commanded you to perform even ten commandments and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. (Deuteronomy 4:13)
So our sincere question to you is this. If you believe the New Covenant replaced or made the Ten Commandments obsolete please explain to us clearly and specifically — what exactly are the contents of this New Covenant you are describing? What did God replace the Ten Commandments with? What is the new standard He gave us to walk in? Because Jeremiah who first prophesied the New Covenant never described new contents. He described the same law written in a new place — on the heart rather than on stone. So we genuinely want to understand your position. What is in this New Covenant if the Ten Commandments are no longer part of it?
Jesus is Lord over His Kingdom which is Everything Physical & Spiritual
Satan is god of this physical world, Earth, becuz Adam & Eve gave him the authority,
... and we give Satan authority when we Sin, walking in the flesh, disobedient to God. Galatians 5:16
- 2 Corinthians 4:4 (NLT): "Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe."
- John 14:30: "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me."
- John 16:11: "Of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged."
"Do not worship the Lord your God in the way they worship their gods, (eg. Sun worship) for every abomination to the Lord, which He hates, they have done to their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burned in the fire to their gods."
There is nothing wrong with worshiping God on any other day of the week. Christian are suppose to commune, pray "Continually".
But God created the last day at creation, specifically for us to commune with Him in an intense loving relationship, resting from our working in the garden (Eden) to "walk in the cool of the day" with our God. When God gave Moses the 10 Commands, he started the Sabbath Commandment, with "Remember" !! ... ie. Don't forget ! Remember how it was in the Garden of Eden, Before the Fall !!
This is the goal of the EverLasting Gospel.. God is trying to get us to choose to return to Eden ( Heaven ) by choosing OBEDIENCE to HIM ... rather than Satan.= 1 John 2:16
It's ALL about LOVE .. Who ya gonna Love ... yourself or God, ... Jesus or Satan ... yourself or your neighbors
Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
The Sabbath Saturday was for Jews and is a shadow of Jesus as our Sabbath rest. Now that Jesus finished His work, then any day can be Sabbath. You can even make EVERYDAY your Sabbath.
So you can still hold your Sabbaths on Saturday if you like, but you can't prevent or shame or condemn others for holding their Sabbaths on any other day either. God won't let you do that and He Himself doesn't punish people for not holding Sabbath on Saturday.
🕊
Can you please show this with Scripture. Is the Ten Commandments only for the Jews? The law of God?
Why would Jesus say the Sabbath was made for man if He meant Jew? He knows the difference.
God said the Sabbath is made for everyone....
Salvation for the Gentiles
56 Thus says the Lord:“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
3Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4;For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6“Also the sons of the foreigner (Gentiles)
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”
I've read through the replies offered me, but I'm rushed and not sure I'm given the sufficient time to construct my replies so I'm marking the page before I return and find myself five pages behind.
@Rob7 it's good to see you've acknowledged that, "There's nothing wrong with worshipping God on any other day of the week..." but that leaves in question your opinion that implies the result of not worshipping according to SDA tradition.
@TMS, God rested from His work the seventh day of creation. Does scripture tell us that He 'hallowed it and made it holy' in the beginning? Everything God does is holy. Why shouldn't we only remember everything else that He does?
@SabbathBlessing Who is trying to tear it down? In fact, you could say that I've taken up employment in helping (seventh day) sabbath observers carry their burdens the rest of the week.
@Rob7 it's good to see you've acknowledged that, "There's nothing wrong with worshipping God on any other day of the week..." but that leaves in question your opinion that implies the result of not worshipping according to SDA tradition.
@TMS, God rested from His work the seventh day of creation. Does scripture tell us that He 'hallowed it and made it holy' in the beginning? Everything God does is holy. Why shouldn't we only remember everything else that He does?
@SabbathBlessing Who is trying to tear it down? In fact, you could say that I've taken up employment in helping (seventh day) sabbath observers carry their burdens the rest of the week.
What's the point of Jesus being LORD of the Sabbath if we are trying to say the Sabbath He said He made for us, is for someone else. That means someone else is lording us.
God never said Remember on any other commandment but the 4th- why do you think that is? Does God do things just randomly in your view?
And the God of the Bible told us when the Sabbath is, not once will we find the Sabbath is everyday in Scripture- this would go against God's own written and spoken will and Testimony
8;“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
God made from Creation the seventh day and the Sabbath day interchangeable. What God does is forever no one can add to it or subtract from it Ecc3:14
Why this did not change in the NC/NT
Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.
Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”
God blessed the seventh day Sabbath Exo20:11 and blesses man when we keep it. Isa56:2
What God blesses is forever
1Chron17:27 Now You have been pleased to bless the house of Your servant, that it may continue before You forever; for You have blessed it, O Lord, and it shall be blessed forever.”
No man can take it away
Behold, I have received a command to bless;
He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it.
Sadly we can only forfeit our own blessing God is trying to give us
Psa 37:22 For those blessed by Him shall inherit the earth,
But those cursed by Him shall be cut off.
People have already given you all the verses that pertain to this issue. So God gives you the responsibility to apply them to your life. You can't say that you didn't know when people posted them to you so many times. I mean, look how long this thread is and how much you've participated in it.
God has moved everything from tablets of stone to our hearts and gave deeper meaning to His ten commandments when He did so. So the Saturday Sabbath was just the introduction or beginning when it was written on mere stone.
When Jesus completed his work, he opened up the ten commandments he wrote on our hearts to have deeper meaning as @JimiSurvivor has posted before.
So now we see that Jesus is our Sabbath rest. We can now hold the Sabbath on any day, even everyday if we like. As a matter of fact, because Jesus lives, we SHOULD make everyday a Sabbath.
🕊
Not one person has ever quoted that the Sabbath is every day, because its not in our Bibles. If it was there it would be simple to quote.
Yes, God placed the Ten Commandments from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart and they all have a deeper meaning, but Jesus Himself related to it when He gave these deeper meanings to not actually breaking the commandments themselves. He plainly taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments, so the deeper meaning of the commandments does lead one to actually break them the way God said, that sadly is a deception and sin 1John3:4 James2:10-12 Mat5:19-30 the deeper meanings leads one to keep them at their fullest the way God always intended. God really wants to spend sanctified and holy time with His children because He knows we have to do work and labors in order to survive. No relationship can sustain without quality time set aside. Either can ours with God.
Does the deeper meaning of worshipping no other gods, leads one to worship other gods? Or not using the holy name of the LORD in vain to vain His holy name? Or not stealing to steal? Or not having anger in the heart to commit murder?
You are applying a different standard to one of the commandments when God didn't. Jesus made this clear Mat5:19 no one is keeping the deeper part of the comamndment by breaking the literal commandment itself. This may sound good to our ears, but its not found in Scripture.