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Jun 30, 2015
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It is a pretty basic Biblical concept that God being holy, and certain things or objects of God being holy is a word that conveys something that is without defilement or error. If you believe otherwise, you need to make your biblical case. Just know, that if you do say "holy" can have an expanded meaning of something that includes error or defilement, you have to attribute this oddball concept of holiness (which includes defilement and error) to the Lord our God, unless of course you have a workaround verse or something that explains away this problem. However, I am not going to hold my breath on you bringing this kind of study to my attention because I believe it simply does not exist.
See my post #679. You have some thinking to do. This is not about my view of holiness, but yours, as you have made claims about it.
 
Oct 12, 2017
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Mark 10:18
King James Bible

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

You shared your thoughts, but nothing yet is enough. You haven’t built your case by making irrelevant remarks and have nothing to offer. Thanks though.
Jesus said that at a time he had to keep himself being as a man.
He had to remain being as a man to be tested by what would temp all men.
And, after passing all testing, offer himself as a man on the Cross to die as a man for all men.

After it was all done?
And, he returned to being as God?
You better make sure you call Him good!
For God can not be tempted by evil, nor can He die!
 
Nov 28, 2023
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Um, no, I don’t need to prove my case, because I didn’t make the original claim; you did. I am not going to accept your attempt to employ the burden-of-proof reversal fallacy.

What you call “a pretty basic biblical concept” (that you haven’t supported with Scripture) is nothing more than a wordy attempt to sidestep my challenge. You don’t have a case because you don’t have any evidence. Just admit you’re wrong, accept the consequences, and move on.
A Study on Holiness in the Sacred Scriptures:

Category 1: The Call to Holiness as Moral Purity and Undefilement:
  1. Leviticus 11:44 (KJV)
    • "For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
    • Explanation: This verse links God's holiness with the requirement for His people to be holy, showing that holiness means being morally pure and separated from defilement.
  2. 1 Peter 1:15-16 (KJV)
    • "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."
    • Explanation: Christians are called to be holy like God, showing that holiness involves moral purity and separation from sin.
  3. Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
    • "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."
    • Explanation: Being holy means being without blame, suggesting that holiness is closely tied to purity and the absence of error or fault.
  4. Hebrews 7:26 (KJV)
    • "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens."
    • Explanation: This verse describes Jesus as "holy, harmless, undefiled," emphasizing that holiness is synonymous with purity and moral perfection.
  5. 2 Corinthians 7:1 (KJV)
    • "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."
    • Explanation: Holiness involves cleansing from impurity and striving for moral and spiritual perfection, showing that holiness is about being undefiled.
  6. 1 Thessalonians 4:7 (KJV)
    • "For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness."
    • Explanation: This verse contrasts holiness with uncleanness, showing that holiness is about being pure, free from moral corruption or error.
  7. Ephesians 5:25-27 (KJV)
    • "As Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
    • Explanation: Christ gave Himself for the church to sanctify and cleanse it through the washing of water by the Word (Scripture). His goal is to present the church as holy and without blemish, symbolizing moral purity and separation from defilement through the purifying power of His Word.
  8. Romans 6:19 (KJV)
    • "I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness."
    • Explanation: This verse calls believers to yield their lives to righteousness, which leads to holiness. It contrasts a life of uncleanness and sin with a life of righteousness that results in holiness, emphasizing that holiness comes through turning away from sin and embracing moral purity.


Category 2: Sacred Objects Explicitly Called Holy and Involved in Purification:

9. The Ark of the Covenant
  • Numbers 4:15 (KJV): "And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die."
  • Explanation: The Ark of the Covenant (located in the holy of holies in the tabernacle) is a holy artifact because it represents the throne of God (Christ’s throne) in Heaven. The focus of the Ark was on the sacrifices made upon the mercy seat, which foreshadows Christ, who is now our ultimate sacrifice. The objects inside the Ark—the tablets of the Law, the jar of manna, and Aaron’s rod—each point to Christ, symbolizing His role as the fulfillment of the Law, the Bread of Life, and the eternal High Priest. These items highlight Christ’s redemptive work and His mediating role between God and humanity. The mercy seat, central to the Old Testament's temporary atonement of sins, points ahead to Christ’s ultimate atonement. The holiness of the Ark is so profound that any unauthorized person who touched it would die.
10. The Holy Anointing Oil (Exodus 30:25-29)
  • "And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment... And thou shalt sanctify them, that they may be most holy: whatsoever toucheth them shall be holy."
  • Explanation: The holy anointing oil purified and consecrated objects and individuals for God’s service, setting them apart as holy. This oil was used to cleanse priests and sacred items, making them fit for worship.
11. The Holy Incense (Exodus 30:35-37)
  • "And thou shalt make it a perfume, a confection after the art of the apothecary, tempered together, pure and holy... it shall be unto thee holy for the LORD."
  • Explanation: The holy incense was burned during purification rituals. Its holiness made the place and worship pure before God, and it was used only for sacred purposes, emphasizing the need for purity in worship.
12. The Holy Garments (Exodus 28:2-3, Leviticus 16:4)
  • "He shall put on the holy linen coat... these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on."
  • Explanation: The priests had to wash themselves before putting on the holy garments, showing the connection between purity and the garments, which allowed them to approach God's presence.
13. The Holy offerings (Numbers 18:8-9):
  • "And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever. This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every oblation of theirs, every meat offering of theirs, and every sin offering of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons."
  • Explanation: This verse speaks of the hallowed (holy) offerings that were given to the priests from the children of Israel, including the heave offerings, meat offerings, sin offerings, and trespass offerings. These offerings are described as "most holy" and were reserved for the priests and their families. The priests had to handle these holy offerings with care, as they were consecrated to God, further reinforcing the need for purity and holiness in dealing with sacrifices made to the Lord.
14. The Holy Altar (Exodus 29:37, Leviticus 16:18-19)
  • "Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy."
  • Explanation: The altar was made holy through atonement rituals, and it purified those who came into contact with it. The altar played a central role in the sacrificial system, symbolizing the cleansing power of the offerings made upon it. The Holy Altar (also known as the altar of burnt offering and not to be confused with the ark of the covenant) was located in the courtyard of the Tabernacle (and later the Temple), outside of the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies.


Category 3: Holiness and Moral Purity Required in Sacred Places:

15. The Holy Hill (Psalm 24:3-4)
  • "Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully."
  • Explanation: The holy hill refers to the sacred place where God’s presence dwells. Only those with clean hands(purified actions) and a pure heart (moral and spiritual purity) are allowed to ascend to this holy place. This verse connects holiness with purification, emphasizing that only those who have undergone moral cleansing and are undefiled can stand in the presence of God on His holy hill.
16. The Holy Place (Leviticus 16:16)
  • "He shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel... and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness."
  • Explanation: The Holy Place and the Most Holy Place (Holy of Holies) required purification through atonement rituals. These spaces were made holy through the blood of sacrifices, cleansing them from the sins of the people and enabling God’s presence to dwell there.
17. The Holy City (Revelation 21:2)
  • "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
  • Explanation: The Holy City or New Jerusalem is described as the ultimate dwelling place of God with His people. It is called holy because it is a place of complete purity, where sin is absent and God's presence dwells fully. The New Jerusalem symbolizes the fulfillment of God’s plan for salvation and His eternal presence with humanity.

....
 
Nov 28, 2023
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All those verses you give were written long before the KJ was penned.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
(2 Timothy 3:16-17).


1. Psalms 12:6-7
These verses speak about the purity and preservation of God's words. They assure us that God's words are pure, like silver refined in a furnace, and that He will preserve them forever. This affirms the trustworthiness and enduring nature of Scripture, which applies to all believers today. God's Word remains pure and preserved for us through time, providing a sure foundation for faith and life.

2. Psalms 96:13
This verse speaks of being before the Lord, which either means living in God's presence, or under His observation (sight). Even though we are always "in God's sight" now, the phrase "for He cometh" points to a future event when God will visibly intervene in human history to judge the earth in righteousness. This coming judgment is something we anticipate, as the Lord will bring justice and truth. The truth in this verse refers to the Scriptures, which are God’s righteous standards by which He will judge the world. Thus, this verse reminds us of both God's current reign and the future hope of His righteous judgment.

3. Psalms 138:2
This verse declares that God has magnified His Word above all His name. It emphasizes the centrality of Scripture in our worship and devotion. It teaches us that God holds His Word in the highest regard, and so should we. Today, this verse reminds us that the Bible is the ultimate authority in our faith, surpassing even the greatness of God's name in its exaltation.

4. Romans 10:17
This verse teaches that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. It is through the preaching and reading of Scripture that people come to faith. This is highly relevant today, as it affirms the central role of the Bible in spreading the gospel and building personal faith. Scripture is the source through which faith is nurtured and grown.

5. 1 Peter 1:23
This passage speaks of being born again through the incorruptible Word of God, which lives and abides forever. The new birth experienced by Christians comes through the power of Scripture, which remains eternal and unchanging. This truth is just as relevant today, as the Word of God continues to bring new life to those who believe.

6. 1 Peter 2:2
Here, believers are encouraged to desire the pure milk of the Word, so they may grow spiritually. Just as a newborn craves milk, Christians must crave God's Word for spiritual nourishment and maturity. This is an ongoing truth for believers today, emphasizing the need to study and meditate on Scripture regularly for spiritual growth.

7. 2 Corinthians 2:17
"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."
This verse directly addresses those who had already corrupted the Word of God during Paul's time. Paul contrasts his faithful and sincere ministry with those who had twisted or distorted the Scriptures for their own purposes. The KJV uses the word "corrupt," referring to the act of altering, tampering with, or distorting God's Word. While Paul rebukes those who were guilty of this in his time, the verse also serves as a warning to future generations of believers. It reminds us that the Word of God must not be altered to fit human agendas, but should be preached faithfully, with sincerity, and in its purity.


...
 
Nov 28, 2023
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It appears that you don't hold to double inspiration as Ruckman held; that's a good thing. You do, however, hold to inspired guidance, which leaves you in the impossible position of explaining the inconsistencies in the "Spirit-guided" KJV.
John the baptist comes to mind. John was filled by the Holy Spirit and he spoke of how Christ took away the sins of the whole world. Yet at another point in time, John the Baptist had questioned whether Jesus was the Messiah or not. So at one point, John operated by the Spirit of God, and yet another point he operated by his carnal (natural-man) thinking. So there are no inconsistencies involving the KJV translators. God is more than powerful enough to preserve His Word with the KJV, and yet also allow the translators to act and think on their own at other times. Remember, even King Saul's men had prophesied (Which was something they were not expecting).

...
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,319
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A Study on Holiness in the Sacred Scriptures:

Category 1: The Call to Holiness as Moral Purity and Undefilement:
  1. Leviticus 11:44 (KJV)
    • "For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
    • Explanation: This verse links God's holiness with the requirement for His people to be holy, showing that holiness means being morally pure and separated from defilement.
  2. 1 Peter 1:15-16 (KJV)
    • "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."
    • Explanation: Christians are called to be holy like God, showing that holiness involves moral purity and separation from sin.
  3. Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
    • "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."
    • Explanation: Being holy means being without blame, suggesting that holiness is closely tied to purity and the absence of error or fault.
  4. Hebrews 7:26 (KJV)
    • "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens."
    • Explanation: This verse describes Jesus as "holy, harmless, undefiled," emphasizing that holiness is synonymous with purity and moral perfection.
  5. 2 Corinthians 7:1 (KJV)
    • "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."
    • Explanation: Holiness involves cleansing from impurity and striving for moral and spiritual perfection, showing that holiness is about being undefiled.
  6. 1 Thessalonians 4:7 (KJV)
    • "For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness."
    • Explanation: This verse contrasts holiness with uncleanness, showing that holiness is about being pure, free from moral corruption or error.
  7. Ephesians 5:25-27 (KJV)
    • "As Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
    • Explanation: Christ gave Himself for the church to sanctify and cleanse it through the washing of water by the Word (Scripture). His goal is to present the church as holy and without blemish, symbolizing moral purity and separation from defilement through the purifying power of His Word.
  8. Romans 6:19 (KJV)
    • "I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness."
    • Explanation: This verse calls believers to yield their lives to righteousness, which leads to holiness. It contrasts a life of uncleanness and sin with a life of righteousness that results in holiness, emphasizing that holiness comes through turning away from sin and embracing moral purity.


Category 2: Sacred Objects Explicitly Called Holy and Involved in Purification:

9. The Ark of the Covenant
  • Numbers 4:15 (KJV): "And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die."
  • Explanation: The Ark of the Covenant (located in the holy of holies in the tabernacle) is a holy artifact because it represents the throne of God (Christ’s throne) in Heaven. The focus of the Ark was on the sacrifices made upon the mercy seat, which foreshadows Christ, who is now our ultimate sacrifice. The objects inside the Ark—the tablets of the Law, the jar of manna, and Aaron’s rod—each point to Christ, symbolizing His role as the fulfillment of the Law, the Bread of Life, and the eternal High Priest. These items highlight Christ’s redemptive work and His mediating role between God and humanity. The mercy seat, central to the Old Testament's temporary atonement of sins, points ahead to Christ’s ultimate atonement. The holiness of the Ark is so profound that any unauthorized person who touched it would die.
10. The Holy Anointing Oil (Exodus 30:25-29)
  • "And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment... And thou shalt sanctify them, that they may be most holy: whatsoever toucheth them shall be holy."
  • Explanation: The holy anointing oil purified and consecrated objects and individuals for God’s service, setting them apart as holy. This oil was used to cleanse priests and sacred items, making them fit for worship.
11. The Holy Incense (Exodus 30:35-37)
  • "And thou shalt make it a perfume, a confection after the art of the apothecary, tempered together, pure and holy... it shall be unto thee holy for the LORD."
  • Explanation: The holy incense was burned during purification rituals. Its holiness made the place and worship pure before God, and it was used only for sacred purposes, emphasizing the need for purity in worship.
12. The Holy Garments (Exodus 28:2-3, Leviticus 16:4)
  • "He shall put on the holy linen coat... these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on."
  • Explanation: The priests had to wash themselves before putting on the holy garments, showing the connection between purity and the garments, which allowed them to approach God's presence.
13. The Holy offerings (Numbers 18:8-9):
  • "And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever. This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every oblation of theirs, every meat offering of theirs, and every sin offering of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons."
  • Explanation: This verse speaks of the hallowed (holy) offerings that were given to the priests from the children of Israel, including the heave offerings, meat offerings, sin offerings, and trespass offerings. These offerings are described as "most holy" and were reserved for the priests and their families. The priests had to handle these holy offerings with care, as they were consecrated to God, further reinforcing the need for purity and holiness in dealing with sacrifices made to the Lord.
14. The Holy Altar (Exodus 29:37, Leviticus 16:18-19)
  • "Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy."
  • Explanation: The altar was made holy through atonement rituals, and it purified those who came into contact with it. The altar played a central role in the sacrificial system, symbolizing the cleansing power of the offerings made upon it. The Holy Altar (also known as the altar of burnt offering and not to be confused with the ark of the covenant) was located in the courtyard of the Tabernacle (and later the Temple), outside of the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies.


Category 3: Holiness and Moral Purity Required in Sacred Places:

15. The Holy Hill (Psalm 24:3-4)
  • "Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully."
  • Explanation: The holy hill refers to the sacred place where God’s presence dwells. Only those with clean hands(purified actions) and a pure heart (moral and spiritual purity) are allowed to ascend to this holy place. This verse connects holiness with purification, emphasizing that only those who have undergone moral cleansing and are undefiled can stand in the presence of God on His holy hill.
16. The Holy Place (Leviticus 16:16)
  • "He shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel... and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness."
  • Explanation: The Holy Place and the Most Holy Place (Holy of Holies) required purification through atonement rituals. These spaces were made holy through the blood of sacrifices, cleansing them from the sins of the people and enabling God’s presence to dwell there.
17. The Holy City (Revelation 21:2)
  • "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
  • Explanation: The Holy City or New Jerusalem is described as the ultimate dwelling place of God with His people. It is called holy because it is a place of complete purity, where sin is absent and God's presence dwells fully. The New Jerusalem symbolizes the fulfillment of God’s plan for salvation and His eternal presence with humanity.

....
And to underscore your point, God slew Nadab and Abihu because they burned a formula of incense that God did not design.
This incense has a very specific aroma that filled the temple and permeated the clothing of the priests.
 
Jul 3, 2015
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"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
(2 Timothy 3:16-17).


1. Psalms 12:6-7
These verses speak about the purity and preservation of God's words. They assure us that God's words are pure, like silver refined in a furnace, and that He will preserve them forever. This affirms the trustworthiness and enduring nature of Scripture, which applies to all believers today. God's Word remains pure and preserved for us through time, providing a sure foundation for faith and life.

2. Psalms 96:13
This verse speaks of being before the Lord, which either means living in God's presence, or under His observation (sight). Even though we are always "in God's sight" now, the phrase "for He cometh" points to a future event when God will visibly intervene in human history to judge the earth in righteousness. This coming judgment is something we anticipate, as the Lord will bring justice and truth. The truth in this verse refers to the Scriptures, which are God’s righteous standards by which He will judge the world. Thus, this verse reminds us of both God's current reign and the future hope of His righteous judgment.

3. Psalms 138:2
This verse declares that God has magnified His Word above all His name. It emphasizes the centrality of Scripture in our worship and devotion. It teaches us that God holds His Word in the highest regard, and so should we. Today, this verse reminds us that the Bible is the ultimate authority in our faith, surpassing even the greatness of God's name in its exaltation.

4. Romans 10:17
This verse teaches that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. It is through the preaching and reading of Scripture that people come to faith. This is highly relevant today, as it affirms the central role of the Bible in spreading the gospel and building personal faith. Scripture is the source through which faith is nurtured and grown.

5. 1 Peter 1:23
This passage speaks of being born again through the incorruptible Word of God, which lives and abides forever. The new birth experienced by Christians comes through the power of Scripture, which remains eternal and unchanging. This truth is just as relevant today, as the Word of God continues to bring new life to those who believe.

6. 1 Peter 2:2
Here, believers are encouraged to desire the pure milk of the Word, so they may grow spiritually. Just as a newborn craves milk, Christians must crave God's Word for spiritual nourishment and maturity. This is an ongoing truth for believers today, emphasizing the need to study and meditate on Scripture regularly for spiritual growth.

7. 2 Corinthians 2:17
"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."
This verse directly addresses those who had already corrupted the Word of God during Paul's time. Paul contrasts his faithful and sincere ministry with those who had twisted or distorted the Scriptures for their own purposes. The KJV uses the word "corrupt," referring to the act of altering, tampering with, or distorting God's Word. While Paul rebukes those who were guilty of this in his time, the verse also serves as a warning to future generations of believers. It reminds us that the Word of God must not be altered to fit human agendas, but should be preached faithfully, with sincerity, and in its purity.


...
Eh? What are you trying to say, exactly? Those verses were all written long before the KJV was written.
 
Apr 7, 2024
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Who gets the Spirit that gives wisdom and insight into the mind of God?
Anybody who asks.

Luk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Tragically the super-determinist hyper-Calvinists deny that anyone even has the capacity to ask.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to go to this verse in response to what I said.
 
Apr 7, 2024
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No verse in all the Bible has been so horribly disfigured as this one.
There has grown from it an entire set of doctrines that are......specious.

And worse, demand that it is God Himself that is the author of evil.
Which is precisely the same accusation that Satan has made over and over again. Quite successfully.

1Co 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I am completely lost. Which verse are you talking about that is the most disfigured one?
 
Jun 30, 2015
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John the baptist comes to mind. John was filled by the Holy Spirit and he spoke of how Christ took away the sins of the whole world. Yet at another point in time, John the Baptist had questioned whether Jesus was the Messiah or not. So at one point, John operated by the Spirit of God, and yet another point he operated by his carnal (natural-man) thinking. So there are no inconsistencies involving the KJV translators. God is more than powerful enough to preserve His Word with the KJV, and yet also allow the translators to act and think on their own at other times. Remember, even King Saul's men had prophesied (Which was something they were not expecting).

...
John’s uncertainty does not inform us whether the KJV translators were inspired, or guided. You’re attempting to avoid the serious implications of their Preface.
 
Jun 30, 2015
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A Study on Holiness in the Sacred Scriptures:

Category 1: The Call to Holiness as Moral Purity and Undefilement:
  1. Leviticus 11:44 (KJV)
    • "For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
    • Explanation: This verse links God's holiness with the requirement for His people to be holy, showing that holiness means being morally pure and separated from defilement.
  2. 1 Peter 1:15-16 (KJV)
    • "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."
    • Explanation: Christians are called to be holy like God, showing that holiness involves moral purity and separation from sin.
  3. Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
    • "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."
    • Explanation: Being holy means being without blame, suggesting that holiness is closely tied to purity and the absence of error or fault.
  4. Hebrews 7:26 (KJV)
    • "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens."
    • Explanation: This verse describes Jesus as "holy, harmless, undefiled," emphasizing that holiness is synonymous with purity and moral perfection.
  5. 2 Corinthians 7:1 (KJV)
    • "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."
    • Explanation: Holiness involves cleansing from impurity and striving for moral and spiritual perfection, showing that holiness is about being undefiled.
  6. 1 Thessalonians 4:7 (KJV)
    • "For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness."
    • Explanation: This verse contrasts holiness with uncleanness, showing that holiness is about being pure, free from moral corruption or error.
  7. Ephesians 5:25-27 (KJV)
    • "As Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
    • Explanation: Christ gave Himself for the church to sanctify and cleanse it through the washing of water by the Word (Scripture). His goal is to present the church as holy and without blemish, symbolizing moral purity and separation from defilement through the purifying power of His Word.
  8. Romans 6:19 (KJV)
    • "I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness."
    • Explanation: This verse calls believers to yield their lives to righteousness, which leads to holiness. It contrasts a life of uncleanness and sin with a life of righteousness that results in holiness, emphasizing that holiness comes through turning away from sin and embracing moral purity.


Category 2: Sacred Objects Explicitly Called Holy and Involved in Purification:

9. The Ark of the Covenant
  • Numbers 4:15 (KJV): "And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die."
  • Explanation: The Ark of the Covenant (located in the holy of holies in the tabernacle) is a holy artifact because it represents the throne of God (Christ’s throne) in Heaven. The focus of the Ark was on the sacrifices made upon the mercy seat, which foreshadows Christ, who is now our ultimate sacrifice. The objects inside the Ark—the tablets of the Law, the jar of manna, and Aaron’s rod—each point to Christ, symbolizing His role as the fulfillment of the Law, the Bread of Life, and the eternal High Priest. These items highlight Christ’s redemptive work and His mediating role between God and humanity. The mercy seat, central to the Old Testament's temporary atonement of sins, points ahead to Christ’s ultimate atonement. The holiness of the Ark is so profound that any unauthorized person who touched it would die.
10. The Holy Anointing Oil (Exodus 30:25-29)
  • "And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment... And thou shalt sanctify them, that they may be most holy: whatsoever toucheth them shall be holy."
  • Explanation: The holy anointing oil purified and consecrated objects and individuals for God’s service, setting them apart as holy. This oil was used to cleanse priests and sacred items, making them fit for worship.
11. The Holy Incense (Exodus 30:35-37)
  • "And thou shalt make it a perfume, a confection after the art of the apothecary, tempered together, pure and holy... it shall be unto thee holy for the LORD."
  • Explanation: The holy incense was burned during purification rituals. Its holiness made the place and worship pure before God, and it was used only for sacred purposes, emphasizing the need for purity in worship.
12. The Holy Garments (Exodus 28:2-3, Leviticus 16:4)
  • "He shall put on the holy linen coat... these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on."
  • Explanation: The priests had to wash themselves before putting on the holy garments, showing the connection between purity and the garments, which allowed them to approach God's presence.
13. The Holy offerings (Numbers 18:8-9):
  • "And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever. This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every oblation of theirs, every meat offering of theirs, and every sin offering of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons."
  • Explanation: This verse speaks of the hallowed (holy) offerings that were given to the priests from the children of Israel, including the heave offerings, meat offerings, sin offerings, and trespass offerings. These offerings are described as "most holy" and were reserved for the priests and their families. The priests had to handle these holy offerings with care, as they were consecrated to God, further reinforcing the need for purity and holiness in dealing with sacrifices made to the Lord.
14. The Holy Altar (Exodus 29:37, Leviticus 16:18-19)
  • "Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy."
  • Explanation: The altar was made holy through atonement rituals, and it purified those who came into contact with it. The altar played a central role in the sacrificial system, symbolizing the cleansing power of the offerings made upon it. The Holy Altar (also known as the altar of burnt offering and not to be confused with the ark of the covenant) was located in the courtyard of the Tabernacle (and later the Temple), outside of the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies.


Category 3: Holiness and Moral Purity Required in Sacred Places:

15. The Holy Hill (Psalm 24:3-4)
  • "Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully."
  • Explanation: The holy hill refers to the sacred place where God’s presence dwells. Only those with clean hands(purified actions) and a pure heart (moral and spiritual purity) are allowed to ascend to this holy place. This verse connects holiness with purification, emphasizing that only those who have undergone moral cleansing and are undefiled can stand in the presence of God on His holy hill.
16. The Holy Place (Leviticus 16:16)
  • "He shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel... and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness."
  • Explanation: The Holy Place and the Most Holy Place (Holy of Holies) required purification through atonement rituals. These spaces were made holy through the blood of sacrifices, cleansing them from the sins of the people and enabling God’s presence to dwell there.
17. The Holy City (Revelation 21:2)
  • "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
  • Explanation: The Holy City or New Jerusalem is described as the ultimate dwelling place of God with His people. It is called holy because it is a place of complete purity, where sin is absent and God's presence dwells fully. The New Jerusalem symbolizes the fulfillment of God’s plan for salvation and His eternal presence with humanity.

....
I’ll address these one by one later, but for now, it will suffice to say that your explanations are biased and do not carry any weight.
 
Jun 30, 2015
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A Study on Holiness in the Sacred Scriptures:
The challenge I posted is in response to your statement: "It is a pretty basic Biblical concept that God being holy, and certain things or objects of God being holy is a word that conveys something that is without defilement or error." None of these verses say anything about "error".

Category 1: The Call to Holiness as Moral Purity and Undefilement:
Leviticus 11:44 (KJV)
  • "For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
  • Explanation: This verse links God's holiness with the requirement for His people to be holy, showing that holiness means being morally pure and separated from defilement.
In terms of a response to my challenge, your explanations are quite unnecessary.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (KJV)
  • "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."
  • Explanation: Christians are called to be holy like God, showing that holiness involves moral purity and separation from sin.
Actually, this says nothing about moral purity or separation from sin. This illustrates the problem with this kind of "study"; you're pulling ideas from all over the place instead of dealing with each verse in isolation and then summarizing.

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
  • "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."
  • Explanation: Being holy means being without blame, suggesting that holiness is closely tied to purity and the absence of error or fault.
Actually, this does not say that "being holy means being without blame"; if it did, it would say, "we should be holy, which is being without blame". The "and" in between shows that they are distinct.

Hebrews 7:26 (KJV)
  • "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens."
  • Explanation: This verse describes Jesus as "holy, harmless, undefiled," emphasizing that holiness is synonymous with purity and moral perfection.
Repeating is not explaining, and injecting other concepts is eisegesis.
 
Nov 17, 2015
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Jesus said that at a time he had to keep himself being as a man.
He had to remain being as a man to be tested by what would temp all men.
And, after passing all testing, offer himself as a man on the Cross to die as a man for all men.

After it was all done?
And, he returned to being as God?
You better make sure you call Him good!
For God can not be tempted by evil, nor can He die!
We need a good teacher! That’s it Jesus indeed is a good teacher, for as he was called, Good Master (Mark 10:17), The Holy Spirit is likewise a good teacher for he is, and as Jesus said, the Holy Spirit is indeed a teacher “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” John 14: 26 and the Father God who gives wisdom to those who ask for it (James 1:5 )

Now, speaking of the NKJB as a Trojan horse, let me direct your attention and spot the difference, if you may. The Trojan may have been influenced by the New Age thought of the “One” which denies the Godhead or the Trinity. If not still is a grave mistake for the Greek agathos for the word “one” uses an adjective not as a noun.
King James Bible
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

New King James Version
So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
 
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"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
(2 Timothy 3:16-17).


1. Psalms 12:6-7
These verses speak about the purity and preservation of God's words. They assure us that God's words are pure, like silver refined in a furnace, and that He will preserve them forever. This affirms the trustworthiness and enduring nature of Scripture, which applies to all believers today. God's Word remains pure and preserved for us through time, providing a sure foundation for faith and life.

...
I must submit that the text here concerns the scriptures being "forever." That cannot be said for the godly who are at a time of scarcity and have suffered for even a long time. Endurance though is a long time yet has its limitations and it can not be said of that. The word, the scripture is!
 
Jul 31, 2013
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If not still is a grave mistake for the Greek agathos for the word “one” uses an adjective not as a noun.
King James Bible
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
why does kjv use "none" which is not an adjective, but a noun?

you yourself are arguing that kjv makes "a grave mistake" here.
 
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So what's in the translators Preface to the Reader Dino? Thanks
among other things,

they in no way whatsoever considered their work perfect.
they fully expected it to be continually revised and improved.
they adamantly made it clear that God's word is still God's word no matter how imperfect the translation.
they readily stated that they purposefully mistranslated words in order to add variety and beauty to the language.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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We need a good teacher! That’s it Jesus indeed is a good teacher, for as he was called, Good Master (Mark 10:17), The Holy Spirit is likewise a good teacher for he is, and as Jesus said, the Holy Spirit is indeed a teacher “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” John 14: 26 and the Father God who gives wisdom to those who ask for it (James 1:5 )

Now, speaking of the NKJB as a Trojan horse, let me direct your attention and spot the difference, if you may. The Trojan may have been influenced by the New Age thought of the “One” which denies the Godhead or the Trinity. If not still is a grave mistake for the Greek agathos for the word “one” uses an adjective not as a noun.
King James Bible
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

New King James Version
So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
It's used the same in both sentences. It's simply not capitalized in one. This is consistent throughout the KJV. It doesn't capitalize pronouns for God or Jesus.
 
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clearly we need to elect a president that will change English grammar, to save the world. the entire universe is at stake!
ooh or abolish education :ROFL:

so no one has any more petty arguments about words, because they won't know grammar anyway!