Theology—beneficial or source of endless debating?

[Amanuensis]

My thoughts, 1st of all, is that you are narrowly using the word "theology." It is not normally a "cuss word." Theology is looking at the doctrines of the Bible in an organized, teachable manner. Arguing over theology was discouraged by Paul if it did not produce fruit.

Paul argued theology with the Jewish People in order to win them to Christ. If they were not open, he brushed the dust off his feet. Paul argued theology with fellow Christians, to get them to avoid error. Again, if there was no response, Paul rejected them, not necessarily as unbelievers, but as incorrigible until such time as they humbled themselves and repented.

Therefore, theology is essential. You have to be careful how you use the term. I understand how you're using it. I would just be careful not to dismiss ministries that may be different than your own. All are needed if they are done in the right spirit and show fruits of success.

Systematic Theology is simply a good method for learning what the bible says about the most important truths that God has revealed to us in the Story of Redemption leading to Jesus Christ and our mission as believers.

But I do think it is important to be aware of artificial categories and outlines, and boxes to fit everything into. It might help in teaching the whole picture of divine revelation (which is a category itself in systematic theology) but we cant allow these artificial headings and outlines to constrain our thinking.

 

[Grandpa]

Theology should never be preached. It has done more damage than good.
It traps you into a thought process which in many cases hides the truth.

Take for instance replacement theology where the church replaces Israel. Calvin in his end yrs embraced this.
Full of anti-Semitism and corruption of the word of GOD.
If God all throughout the bible is a redeemer then why did he replace Israel...to hard for him to redeem?
Not according to revelation.
God said he would never forsake Israel. If he replaced Israel hes a liar.
Jesus said he would never forsake us...should we be concerned.

There are many more theological thoughts that are preached from the pulpit today. Dangerously blasphemous.
I started a thread not to long ago on this and stated the bible teaches by anology not theology.
All scripture is inspired. We were given the Holy Spirit as our teacher and CHRIST as our example.

Romans 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


What does this say? In your words.

 

[pottersclay]

Romans 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


What does this say? In your words.

Basically it says the same as ...by grace you are saved through faith.
Do you agree with replacement theolgy?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Is that so? If you really think so, why don't you name a specific doctrine in Catholic theology that you think is irreconcilable with the NT.

Nah, you love endless debating, that's not my thing. I know already you've got you're incorrectly interpreted scriptures ready to go. If I thought you were sincere and really wanted to learn something then yeah, maybe. But you're not, you just want someone to debate with.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Nah, you love endless debating, that's not my thing. I know already you've got you're incorrectly interpreted scriptures ready to go. If I thought you were sincere and really wanted to learn something then yeah, maybe. But you're not, you just want someone to debate with.

Matthew 7:15-20
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Nah, you love endless debating, that's not my thing.

Well, suit yourself. You were the one who brought Catholicism into this thread, saying "Yeah, Catholics can't live without their theology", when all I said was "I love Theology." Theology is not about "endless debating", but about arriving at common consensus in the Truth.

Someone earlier said Systematic Theology began with the Medieval Scholastics. Arguably, it began earlier than that, with the Early Church Fathers, and still earlier with Our Lord Jesus Christ and St. Paul. In Mat 22, Christ debated with the Sadducees about the Resurrection, and with the Pharisees, about His Divinity, from Psa 110:1. In Acts, we read: "As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures". (Acts 17:2).

Clearly, neither the Lord nor His Apostles thought debating and reasoning from the Scriptures was a "waste of time". So neither do I.

 

[Live4Him3]

And you've never met another believer who does likewise?

Just read some of the comments on this thread where professing Christians have either totally altered the actual meaning of the fear of God or totally dismissed it, and you'll have your answer.

In my estimation, which is based upon 60 years of observation, the number one problem in the world AND THE CHURCH (and there's oftentimes very little if any difference between the two) is the lack of the fear of God.

 

[Mii]

Very interesting question. I'll check back in tomorrow on it. Thanks for bringing it up

It's intriguing to me when I reach a crossroads and am dissatisfied/disconcerted with something and then someone brings up a thread on the topic.

The "dusty tome" version of Theology hasn't ever been very useful to me but my own "homegrown" pursuits are exhausting me tremendously as well lately and I think it's probably the Lord that's been pointing some things out on that front.

 

[peldom10]

Very interesting question. I'll check back in tomorrow on it. Thanks for bringing it up

It's intriguing to me when I reach a crossroads and am dissatisfied/disconcerted with something and then someone brings up a thread on the topic.

The "dusty tome" version of Theology hasn't ever been very useful to me but my own "homegrown" pursuits are exhausting me tremendously as well lately and I think it's probably the Lord that's been pointing some things out on that front.

Much of what contributes to ...endless debate....is caused by the introduction of ....new age religion.... interpretations of the Bible since the 1960's. We see it clearly here and on other forums.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Well, suit yourself. You were the one who brought Catholicism into this thread, saying "Yeah, Catholics can't live without their theology",

They can't. They depend on it. They put it above truth. They very rarely think for themselves but swallow everything the "church" tells them to swallow.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Lol, I think you quite like debating yourself, RA.

Anyway, anyone can read the Bible first, and Church history next, and then choose whose theology they find more convincing. If they find that of the Early Church Fathers, like St. Augustine, and that of the Medieval Scholastics, like St. Thomas Aquinas, more convincing, they will be a Catholic Christian as I am. If you find the writings of Luther and Calvin, or some such person, more convincing, you will most likely be an Evangelical/Protestant Christian. Catholics believe the Catholic Church was founded not by any mere man but by God Himself (i.e. Jesus) and had St. Peter as the First Pope (See Mat 16:18-19 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes#1st_century) and thus we see no reason to leave the Catholic and Apostolic Church.

In Christ,
Xavier.

 

[Grandpa]

Basically it says the same as ...by grace you are saved through faith.
Do you agree with replacement theolgy?

I don't think there is a such thing as "replacement" theology.

Gods People have always been and will always be people of Faith. Not people of a certain nation.

 

[Jocund]

Some great commentary and points in the thread so far:

First is that theology comes from "theos" and "logos" which in a sense means God's words or "what God means to convey" and more modernly "the study of what God means to convey". The term "logos" is a profound in itself and can be seen as a double-entendre in some ways. In one sense it is the representation of logical and rational approach to things, in another sense, Logos is in reference to Christ as the Word of God.

(some extra reading: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/c...in-the-bible-definition-and-significance.html)

Second, we are commanded to love God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength. If we reject the process of logos, especially that of theology, we are not truly loving God with all of our mind, and therefore fall short. We should seek to have a rational understanding of scripture and what it is expressing.

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment." - Mark 12:30 KJV

 

[ResidentAlien]

If you find the writings of Luther and Calvin, or some such person, more convincing, you will most likely be an Evangelical/Protestant Christian.

I'm not convinced by any writings of man. I prefer Yahweh's word over man's word. You prefer man's traditions; and the sad thing is you don't even see it.

 

[ResidentAlien]

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment." - Mark 12:30 KJV

Yeah, love the Lord, not man's traditions.

 

[Magenta]

Catholics believe the Catholic Church was founded not by any mere man but by God Himself (i.e. Jesus) and had St. Peter as the First Pope (See Mat 16:18-19 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes#1st_century) and thus we see no reason to leave the Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Catholics believe all kinds of un-Biblical nonsense. Some of it is blaspemous, and some of it is mandated by papal decree.

If you find the writings of Luther and Calvin, or some such person, more convincing, you will most likely be an Evangelical/Protestant Christian.

Why make such an illogical erroneous assumption? One need only know what is in the Bible.
If one does compare this to Catholicism, anyone in their right mind would choose the former.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Catholics believe all kinds of un-Biblical nonsense. Some of it is blaspemous, and some of it is mandated by papal decree.

Disagree. You may not agree, but the Papacy is based on the Lord's Promise in Mat 16:18-19 [see: http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/PeterRockKeysPrimacyRome.htm and the Wiki link given earlier]. Go back in history and you will see none but Jesus Christ Himself founded the Catholic Church.

St. Ignatius of Antioch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch) was a personal disciple of the Apostle John himself. He mentions that the Church of that time was the Catholic Church.

He wrote: "Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid." as is mentioned in the link.

Why make such an illogical erroneous assumption? One need only know what is in the Bible.
If one does compare this to Catholicism, anyone in their right mind would choose the former.

Suffice to say that, 100s of Millions of Catholic Christians from around the world have read the Holy Bible and disagree with you.

In Christ,
Xavier.

 

[soberxp]

All the rules of God are based on life. The Ten Commandments express what a world full of life should look like, but human can't abide by it.
The New Testament strengthens the meaning of life.

 

[Magenta]

Disagree. You may not agree, but the Papacy is based on the Lord's Promise in Mat 16:18-19 [see: http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/PeterRockKeysPrimacyRome.htm and the Wiki link given earlier]. Go back in history and you will see none but Jesus Christ Himself founded the Catholic Church.

I said nothing about that. Why don't you respond to what I actually said?

Jesus did not found a blasphemous organization.

Suffice to say that, 100s of Millions of Catholic Christians from around the world have read the Holy Bible and disagree with you.

They just as likely all disagree with Jesus, too. They are mandated to according to your popes and papal decrees.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Disagree. You may not agree, but the Papacy is based on the Lord's Promise in Mat 16:18-19 [see: http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/PeterRockKeysPrimacyRome.htm and the Wiki link given earlier]. Go back in history and you will see none but Jesus Christ Himself founded the Catholic Church.

St. Ignatius of Antioch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch) was a personal disciple of the Apostle John himself. He mentions that the Church of that time was the Catholic Church.

He wrote: "Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid." as is mentioned in the link.



Suffice to say that, 100s of Millions of Catholic Christians from around the world have read the Holy Bible and disagree with you.

In Christ,
Xavier.

I guess I'm wondering what your motive is for even being here. All I've seen you do is try to indoctrinate the naive into you Catholic false doctrine. You're obviously not here to learn anything from anyone else. Why are you here anyway?