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RobbyEarl
Guest
I was wondering if a transgender person get's saved, should they go back to their ordinal sex or keep deceiving what they are?
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wwjd_kilden
Guest
That's between them and God. So unless you are transgender you really don't have to worry about it
After conversion surely the Lord will work in the areas of their lives that brought about such a mindset, and bring deep inner healing. God sanctifies all of us, transgender people alike. This inner healing will bring about an outer change, most assuredly.
Here is a video of such a person...
[video=youtube;kw6WRcaih48]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6WRcaih48[/video]
Here is a video of such a person...
[video=youtube;kw6WRcaih48]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6WRcaih48[/video]
You know, some things just cannot be 'fixed' this side of eternity.
Our job as the Body of Christ is to love others well.
This is actually a discussion I recently had with my freshman-in-college-daughter. It was prompted as we were watching an airing of America's Got Talent and one of the contestants, a transgender man-to-woman (an older individual) comedian. They were actually very funny!
The discussion was how she didn't feel comfortable calling the person a 'she' when that person was born a 'he'. I asked her what the most loving thing to do *with that person's self-defined identity in mind* if the opportunity to share Christ with them arose. She didn't feel like she could compromise - the person was born a 'he'! I asked her what fruit would be borne by her 'sticking to her guns' if insisting on addressing that person as a 'he'. The interesting thing is that unless the person had revealed their transgender status, we would never have known.
We never really reached a conclusion about what she would do, though I lean toward addressing someone as they identify themselves - in their eyes that is who they are. If they were to come to Christ, I'm content with Him by His Grace and His Spirit working out their identity issues. I don't see where it says in the Bible that someone must be their original gender in order to be saved or revert back to their original gender to remain saved.
How would a local fellowship respond if that person was in a relationship with someone who is their current gender-opposite (a heterosexual relationship after a gender reassignment)? I honestly do not know. Like I said, not everything can be 'fixed' this side of eternity.
Let's throw another monkey wrench in the mix. Some babies are born with both male and female genitalia (hermaphrodites - What does the Bible say about hermaphrodites?). For many, many years, doctors and/or parents would 'choose' which gender to 'make' those babies. More modern medicine can determine whether one is genetically male or female, so the choice can be clearer for modern parents (as many as 1 in 2000 births can present as a hermaphrodite). But what about those children whose parents chose the gender which was opposite of their child's genetic reality either out of ignorance or out of their preference for one gender over another? For example, a child who had both male and female genitalia, was genetically a female, but parents chose for baby to be surgically situated to be male, either because they just didn't know their baby's genetic reality or because they wanted a boy rather than a girl? If those types of children always 'identified' or 'felt like' they were female, it's because genetically they were! Would you condemn someone like that or tell them they should go back to their 'ordinal' sex?
Are we as the Body of Christ willing to look at the realities that some of these folks live with/have lived through? Are we willing to love them as they are, whatever that may be? Are we willing to love those who are so messed up not knowing who they are because they have been so abused and mistreated and have sought to rid themselves of their identity at their very core? Are they 'deceiving what they are' or are they so very wounded and need of healing in Christ? Will those in Christ be willing to walk that path with them - for the years or decades that healing may take for them?
Or would it be easier to just put them out of the fellowship or ignore them until they feel so unloved that they just go away?
Interesting question . . .
-JGIG
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Miri
Guest
Sin wrecks havoc on the human body in all sorts of ways whether intentional
or unintentional. People lose limbs, become paralysed, suffer all sorts of damage.
Thankfully we all get new bodies!
Whether or not a person decided to try reversal surgery is up to them, but it would
not alter the new creation inside of them.
or unintentional. People lose limbs, become paralysed, suffer all sorts of damage.
Thankfully we all get new bodies!
Whether or not a person decided to try reversal surgery is up to them, but it would
not alter the new creation inside of them.
I think the transgender/gay/whatever else is part of judgment (for the most part). It is part of being turned over to a reprobate mind.
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jennymae
Guest
Yeah, agreed, why is this a problem? Folks are so obsessed with sexuality, I sure wonder why...
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Miri
Guest
Many, many years ago a group of us were bringing the Gospel to people in the area. One day we did come across a man who was dressed up as a woman. We witnessed to him all about God and invited him to join our Church.
He did show up to Church dressed as a man. He walked away from being Transgender back to being a man and to my knowledge he is still a man serving the Lord!
He did show up to Church dressed as a man. He walked away from being Transgender back to being a man and to my knowledge he is still a man serving the Lord!
I came from this exact life, I was shown what was going to happen to me when I died, I begged God to help me and bring an end to my torment, and my bible opened up to Deut 22:5- "A man shall not wear the cloak of a woman, and a woman shall not wear the garb of a man, the Lord detests those who do this".
So no, just like any other sin ever, if you are to be saved from it, you must repent from it. A TG person who has come to God but refuses to leave that life behind will not be saved.
So no, just like any other sin ever, if you are to be saved from it, you must repent from it. A TG person who has come to God but refuses to leave that life behind will not be saved.
It's either total repentance or nothing. God expects us to go the whole way. For some it's a journey, for others who are fully committed to the Lord, they leave all sin behind as much as they possibly can through everything that they're now aware of as a believer.
I wanted to say that from my experience, being a part of the latter, even though I dropped it all right there and gave myself to the Lord, it was still a journey : p It took me a while to get used to and feel comfortable with being the way God created me. And like even still I have some weird things about certain parts of it that I still deal with and probly always will : p But as for being the way God made me, Im not longer sad or angry about it, and have changed my heart from being focused on matters of the flesh to spirit, and I feel comfortable with it now : p
The verses in the bible about living by the spirit and not by the flesh have a huge meaning and importance in my life, I wish I could get others to understand those words.
I find myself wondering how this is our decision to be making......... any more than it is our place to decide which of our "straight" brothers or sisters is saved? Oh, to be certain, many of us WANT to make that decision for God, and often do. But that really doesn't amount to a hill of beans in His Kingdom. In fact, we are likely heaping judgement upon ourselves by doing so.
Do you ever feel you might possibly be reacting as a recovered alcoholic often does towards others who still have the problem?
Nope. Theres a difference between struggling with a sin, and not being willing to part with it. Lets say someone deals with sexual temptation. They may struggle with it, they may even fall back into it at some point and repent and continue trying to walk with the Lord.
But then again they may rationalize it, tell themselves they cant control the fact they are being urged, justifying their decision to continue to live in sin with that reasoning, and continue in what they know God has said is wrong and telling themselves "we are no longer under the law". I, and other people who believe in the God of Abraham, have done just that. But it doesnt matter how you rationalize it, you are still doing what He has told you not to do.
Isnt there a difference between someone who chooses to follow Gods word, but fails at some point, and repents to Him, asking Him for help and forgiveness and continues to keep the Word of God in his heart, and someone who knows God's word, but reasons to himself whether or not its right, ignores it and claims that they are a child of God despite going against His will?
Why do we lump these two people together? Does God not discern the hearts of men? Does that not mean He takes consideration in what we put in our heart? If I know something is wrong, but continue to do it, in what way have I repented from it? "Im sorry Lord, but I must continue doing what I know I shouldnt", I dont believe the Lord takes that seriously, why would He have gave us the commandment if He didnt mean it?
I have come a looong way on my judgment of others sin.
I almost lost my relationship with my sister over her having a homosexual cousin of ours and his boyfriend for Thanksgiving yrs ago.
I still know and believe that homosexuality and transgenderism is sin, but my approach and heart has changed in how I relate to them or any other sin people engage in.
Love is truly the answer. I found if I love them and not even bother mentioning their specific sin, then give the Gospel and pray they will accept it, to be MUCH MORE effective than pointing out their sin.
After all, it's going to be the Holy Spirit who reveals what needs to change in their life AFTER they have accepted Jesus.
I almost lost my relationship with my sister over her having a homosexual cousin of ours and his boyfriend for Thanksgiving yrs ago.
I still know and believe that homosexuality and transgenderism is sin, but my approach and heart has changed in how I relate to them or any other sin people engage in.
Love is truly the answer. I found if I love them and not even bother mentioning their specific sin, then give the Gospel and pray they will accept it, to be MUCH MORE effective than pointing out their sin.
After all, it's going to be the Holy Spirit who reveals what needs to change in their life AFTER they have accepted Jesus.
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eph610
Guest
One of the things we do not hear taught or preached very much today is that when we come to Christ we become a new creation and we find our true identity in Christ. The greatest identity theft in the world is Satan himself. If he can steal who God says you are through deception, he wins. If you look at how he deceived Eve in the garden you will see this point clearly. Other points show this as well, Simon Barjonah to Peter, Saul to Paul, Abram to Abraham, Sarai to Sarah.
TO answer your question, yes a truly saved and repented transgender person will change back to the sex they once where. When Jesus told the leper, I am willing;be clean, he was radically changed forever.
We have seen those bound to the LGBT lifestyle that truly step through godly sorrow and not worldly sorrow, become radically changed and without the need for anyone to remind them hey, you cannot live that way anymore.
The Bible teaches us plainly that when you come to Christ old things pass away and all things become new. It's not a spectacular message, but it is the Gospel.
TO answer your question, yes a truly saved and repented transgender person will change back to the sex they once where. When Jesus told the leper, I am willing;be clean, he was radically changed forever.
We have seen those bound to the LGBT lifestyle that truly step through godly sorrow and not worldly sorrow, become radically changed and without the need for anyone to remind them hey, you cannot live that way anymore.
The Bible teaches us plainly that when you come to Christ old things pass away and all things become new. It's not a spectacular message, but it is the Gospel.
Oh, I absolutely agree that we should love them. In fact other Christians were a huge and major help for me when I dealt with the change. I even made a friend who brought me to his church and introduced me to others and talked with me and gave me advice, comforted me, ect when dealing with it.
But that doesnt mean we should approve of their lifestyle, we can give them God's word with love. And even if they deny it, we should still love them. I love them, I know what they are going through. But I also stand in God's word, and I really dont like it when people preach a message of acceptance of sin in the word of God. I believe it will lead people to their death for the sake of "looking accepting" with their peers. I think its wrong, I do not approve of those who do this.