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So very happy and grateful to God that you are in Him.
Not sure if you were totally addressing me, but I never said it was ok to accept someone's sinful behavior.
I'm saying I don't believe it's my place to point out that sin to them. They ALREADY KNOW what they are doing is sinful. If they were to ask me about a specific sin I would ask them what Scripture says about it.
Remember, they need to be saved first, THEN the Holy Spirit will show them what they need to stop doing.
Every other religion says you have to be sanctified BEFORE you can be saved.
True Christianity says you need to be saved first, then sanctified.
If we could cleanse ourselves of sin before accepting Jesus then we wouldn't need Jesus.
Peace,love and Grace to you brother!
If you are told that what you are doing is wrong, and you make no effort to change it, and say you cant, are you not doing the wrong thing? If I go out murdering people, and am told its wrong, but go out continuing to do so, am I not wrong for doing so?
The point is not that TG=murder, it is that if you know what you are doing is wrong, then you should make steps to change what you are doing.
Many things are done in the name of tolerance.(The new age god of this world.) But when we start cherry picking as with this new transgender innovation coming out the closest and saying we need to ignore it because some say God loves the sinner and not the sin. Can we ignore and active murder in our assembly in the same way? or a false prophet? Scripture informs us God hates all "workers of iniquity" .Even the self-righteous ones like below .
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:22
Will we share in their guilt and be driven in the closets and expect to be heard on high??
Although we don’t judge them seeing there is only one Judge and law maker and only God can see the heart and who knows he could be working with them .They need to hear what the scriptures say. This is seeing it’s by the gospel that God does cast out lying spirits.
What did Christ say to the woman that violated the principles of faith.. Go sin no more? Or God hates the sin but loves the sinner keep on sinning, Jesus love you .
God’ s love is conditional, non-failing , but not without discrimination.
What’s next to come out of the closet... pedophile rights? What happens to responsibilities have they changed in to rights?
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:22
Will we share in their guilt and be driven in the closets and expect to be heard on high??
Although we don’t judge them seeing there is only one Judge and law maker and only God can see the heart and who knows he could be working with them .They need to hear what the scriptures say. This is seeing it’s by the gospel that God does cast out lying spirits.
What did Christ say to the woman that violated the principles of faith.. Go sin no more? Or God hates the sin but loves the sinner keep on sinning, Jesus love you .
God’ s love is conditional, non-failing , but not without discrimination.
What’s next to come out of the closet... pedophile rights? What happens to responsibilities have they changed in to rights?
And you know the battle that may. or may not, be ongoing in their heart every day? I don't.
I like everything you said, except this. I had accepted Him before I left my TG life, in fact this is me before 2014-
Notice the necklaces Im wearing there, see the cross? I even told people that I believed in Jesus Christ.
When I went through what I went through, and was shown Deut 22:5, I did not know that verse was there. In fact I think I even added that to my testimony thread. No one ever told me that what I was doing was against God's word, and I always figured God never said anything about it. (To be fair, I absoluely believe that at the time I would have ignored it, made the claim that man added that to the word of God themself and that God had nothing against being TG)
I cannot think of any verse anywhere that tells us to not share the word of God, and to let the Holy Spirit teach others whats right and wrong alone, not taking any steps on our own to warn others. There are however verses that tell us that if we do not warn our brothers, their blood is on our hands.
Im not saying this cuz I hate you or have anything against you, so please dont take this as an aggressive battle or any of that : p I just do not agree with what you are saying here.
If they are still wearing the wrong clothing, continuing in the act of changing their bodies and telling others to call them by a different name/pronoun, yeah? It shows that they havent yet accepted His word. And yes, we should absoluely guide them and urge them to come to the Lord.
M
Miri
Guest
Ok I know there are lots of scenarios, but let me put this on here.
A man goes through transgender surgery, takes female hormones, breast implants.
Has certain attributes altered etc. (There was a man at work who started to go through
this process. He worked for the IT company building our new systems. Don't know how it all
went as the company completed the work and left).
Then just suppose he comes to Christ, there seems to be some who are suggesting that he
could not possibly be saved unless he undoes all the previous surgery.
The new creation on the inside of us is a new spirit, not a new body. I can testify to this I've
got back problems at the moment but that doesn't mean I'm not saved. I haven't really got
any wrinkles yet but I suppose they will come with age. I have gray hair but i dye it
Maybe such a person would want to undergo reversal surgery, maybe not, maybe it's not
possible I don't know, but would it really be any of our business. I certainly would not dare to
point the finger and say you are not a Christian because you have mutilated your body.
Body mutilation comes in all shapes and sizes, some are just more obvious than others.
Emotional mutilation, can be even worse, self hate, self harm, hair pulling, eating disorders, damaged nose
due to drugs etc. These all just show what a job Satan does on people.
But praise God we can all be more than conquerors in Christ Jesus.
A man goes through transgender surgery, takes female hormones, breast implants.
Has certain attributes altered etc. (There was a man at work who started to go through
this process. He worked for the IT company building our new systems. Don't know how it all
went as the company completed the work and left).
Then just suppose he comes to Christ, there seems to be some who are suggesting that he
could not possibly be saved unless he undoes all the previous surgery.
The new creation on the inside of us is a new spirit, not a new body. I can testify to this I've
got back problems at the moment but that doesn't mean I'm not saved. I haven't really got
any wrinkles yet but I suppose they will come with age. I have gray hair but i dye it
Maybe such a person would want to undergo reversal surgery, maybe not, maybe it's not
possible I don't know, but would it really be any of our business. I certainly would not dare to
point the finger and say you are not a Christian because you have mutilated your body.
Body mutilation comes in all shapes and sizes, some are just more obvious than others.
Emotional mutilation, can be even worse, self hate, self harm, hair pulling, eating disorders, damaged nose
due to drugs etc. These all just show what a job Satan does on people.
But praise God we can all be more than conquerors in Christ Jesus.
Ok I know there are lots of scenarios, but let me put this on here.
A man goes through transgender surgery, takes female hormones, breast implants.
Has certain attributes altered etc. (There was a man at work who started to go through
this process. He worked for the IT company building our new systems. Don't know how it all
went as the company completed the work and left).
Then just suppose he comes to Christ, there seems to be some who are suggesting that he
could not possibly be saved unless he undoes all the previous surgery.
The new creation on the inside of us is a new spirit, not a new body. I can testify to this I've
got back problems at the moment but that doesn't mean I'm not saved. I haven't really got
any wrinkles yet but I suppose they will come with age. I have gray hair but i dye it
Maybe such a person would want to undergo reversal surgery, maybe not, maybe it's not
possible I don't know, but would it really be any of our business. I certainly would not dare to
point the finger and say you are not a Christian because you have mutilated your body.
Body mutilation comes in all shapes and sizes, some are just more obvious than others.
Emotional mutilation, can be even worse, self hate, self harm, hair pulling, eating disorders, damaged nose
due to drugs etc. These all just show what a job Satan does on people.
But praise God we can all be more than conquerors in Christ Jesus.
Im certainly not saying that the surgery has doomed them forever, no. They have been cleansed through Him. But continuing to live as TG, still wearing the wrong clothes and all the other things, thats different. Its continuing to live in their sin. Thats what Im debating against.
Hummm. I like it, "Because I followed a certain path, you must also." Sounds good. ("Sounds", being the key word.)
What, exactly, is the way we are to "show someone their SIN?" Is it the same for all people... either the "showing" or the "receiving?"
I dunno. I only know that sometimes I may verbally slap someone, and say WTH is wrong with you?... and in other cases, I may just hold them and softly rock them. I actually do try to be sensitive to the leading of the spirit in that.
What, exactly, is the way we are to "show someone their SIN?" Is it the same for all people... either the "showing" or the "receiving?"
I dunno. I only know that sometimes I may verbally slap someone, and say WTH is wrong with you?... and in other cases, I may just hold them and softly rock them. I actually do try to be sensitive to the leading of the spirit in that.
No, not even close. Its "because God has shown me this is His will, I have taken it up as my own, and I want you to follow Him too.
I like everything you said, except this. I had accepted Him before I left my TG life, in fact this is me before 2014-
Notice the necklaces Im wearing there, see the cross? I even told people that I believed in Jesus Christ.
When I went through what I went through, and was shown Deut 22:5, I did not know that verse was there. In fact I think I even added that to my testimony thread. No one ever told me that what I was doing was against God's word, and I always figured God never said anything about it. (To be fair, I absoluely believe that at the time I would have ignored it, made the claim that man added that to the word of God themself and that God had nothing against being TG)
I cannot think of any verse anywhere that tells us to not share the word of God, and to let the Holy Spirit teach others whats right and wrong alone, not taking any steps on our own to warn others. There are however verses that tell us that if we do not warn our brothers, their blood is on our hands.
Im not saying this cuz I hate you or have anything against you, so please dont take this as an aggressive battle or any of that : p I just do not agree with what you are saying here.
Wow! So very brave of you to post that brother!
Such a wonderful heart you have.
I think you're making my case for me though. You admitted that before you were saved you wouldn't have believed Scripture.
What if someone had said to you BEFORE being saved, " hey! You need to stop being queer and dressing like a girl or you're going to hell!"?
I'm not against instruction. But if it's not done in complete love then it will not bear any fruit.
Weve had this conversation before, and again you accuse me of claiming we must shame them and treat them as if they are lower than us. Never said that, only said that we should stand by God's word and guide them to follow Him.
Yes, I wouldnt have believed in it because it wasnt what I wanted. And it took God showing me what was going to happen to me to make me repent and leave it, and through fear I have found wisdom.
Im not saying we need to make signs that say offensive things or any of that : p I am saying that yes, we must follow the word of God and not ignore Him, and that yes, we should absolutely guide all people to His word. You can do it both gently and honestly. There is nothing wrong with giving the warning God gave us. If it is hateful for us to say what is written in the bible, was it hateful for God to make the commands?
Also, if you read my testimony thread, youd see that I had a Christian friend through out that time, and that he helped me come to God, too.
He was my friend that entire time, he did not hate me, he did not treat me like scum, he loved me and helped me when I needed it and I loved him dearly. And yes, he also stood by the word of God while we were friends.
I am both grateful for him and I definitely agree that that is how a Christian should treat those trapped in sin. So hopefully we can move past the whole "youd shame them and throw them into the mud?" thing : p
He was my friend that entire time, he did not hate me, he did not treat me like scum, he loved me and helped me when I needed it and I loved him dearly. And yes, he also stood by the word of God while we were friends.
I am both grateful for him and I definitely agree that that is how a Christian should treat those trapped in sin. So hopefully we can move past the whole "youd shame them and throw them into the mud?" thing : p
M
Miri
Guest
Oh I see, the OP was about transgender rather then cross dressing.
I suspect for the most part that the Holy Spirit would take away the need and urge for
cross dressing, whether it would happen overnight or it might take a while would be
between the person and God.
If I'm honest I don't understand cross dressing maybe for some it's a kind of sexual addiction
for others it might be the thin edge of the wedge to transgender.
I know a man I worked with years ago who had a bit of a fetish for wearing women's stockings.
But in every other way he wore male clothes, it was a type of addiction for him.
We see on here daily Christians struggling with all sorts of things, some a bit more
out there like porn, others less obvious. I don't think any of us are 100% pure holy
in mind word or deed. I know I'm not. One day we will be but just not this side of heaven.
I would expect to see some sort of evidence of the "new creation" but I wouldn't expect
a new Christian to get everything right and just be perfect overnight, to get rid of all their
vices, sort all their emotional baggage out in an instant.
I think it's already been said that the key is transformation it happens at different rates
with different people. I'm glad for you by the way.
M
Miri
Guest
Incidentally a story (true I might add).
A prostitute came to Christ, her wardrobe comprised of skimpy revealing
clothes. It's all she had and all she had ever worn for years.
She turned up to Church in these skimpy clothes every week praising God!
The women in the church tut tutted and tried to evert the eyes of the men (notice the
men didn't try too hard to look away!).
So some of the women went to see the pastor and said he should speak to her and tell her
how the bible expected her to dress. The pastor told the women to leave her alone she was
a new born again Christian and it was not right to crush her, that God would deal with her and
instead to pray for her - and themselves!
Maybe 6 months or so later, this new Christian was in the women's bible study and she asked
the other women about clothing, she said she felt maybe she needed to change a little
but wasn't sure what to do for the best but she wanted some new clothes and didn't have
much money.
Guess what the next week all the women turned up with bundles of clothes for her. She was
thrilled to bits at the generosity of the church and everyone else breathed a sigh of relief.
A true story, it was played out in the church of some friends I have known for years, he was
the pastor.
A prostitute came to Christ, her wardrobe comprised of skimpy revealing
clothes. It's all she had and all she had ever worn for years.
She turned up to Church in these skimpy clothes every week praising God!
The women in the church tut tutted and tried to evert the eyes of the men (notice the
men didn't try too hard to look away!).
So some of the women went to see the pastor and said he should speak to her and tell her
how the bible expected her to dress. The pastor told the women to leave her alone she was
a new born again Christian and it was not right to crush her, that God would deal with her and
instead to pray for her - and themselves!
Maybe 6 months or so later, this new Christian was in the women's bible study and she asked
the other women about clothing, she said she felt maybe she needed to change a little
but wasn't sure what to do for the best but she wanted some new clothes and didn't have
much money.
Guess what the next week all the women turned up with bundles of clothes for her. She was
thrilled to bits at the generosity of the church and everyone else breathed a sigh of relief.
A true story, it was played out in the church of some friends I have known for years, he was
the pastor.
Oh I see, the OP was about transgender rather then cross dressing.
I suspect for the most part that the Holy Spirit would take away the need and urge for
cross dressing, whether it would happen overnight or it might take a while would be
between the person and God.
If I'm honest I don't understand cross dressing maybe for some it's a kind of sexual addiction
for others it might be the thin edge of the wedge to transgender.
I know a man I worked with years ago who had a bit of a fetish for wearing women's stockings.
But in every other way he wore male clothes, it was a type of addiction for him.
We see on here daily Christians struggling with all sorts of things, some a bit more
out there like porn, others less obvious. I don't think any of us are 100% pure holy
in mind word or deed. I know I'm not. One day we will be but just not this side of heaven.
I would expect to see some sort of evidence of the "new creation" but I wouldn't expect
a new Christian to get everything right and just be perfect overnight, to get rid of all their
vices, sort all their emotional baggage out in an instant.
I think it's already been said that the key is transformation it happens at different rates
with different people. I'm glad for you by the way.
The reason can be many things, for some people theres an actual sadness over their bodies, they let themselves believe theyll never be happy with who they are, and hate the body they are born in. And yeah, there is a real sorrow and hoplessness to it. It is a real thing, I often encourage people to not doubt that people are really going through that : p I believe that a change of heart is possible, and that you can change it in time. And even now I still get some negative feelings with gender, I just choose to ignore them, not care about my life in the flesh here on earth and instead focus on being with God.
And with that, yes! God is the answer! I do not disagree with anyone on that : p
As for the Holy Spirit taking it away, yes. Like I do not want to be apart from God ever again. But like the urge is still there, like I get those creeping thoughts into my head, that Id be happier if I did what I wanted and got what I wanted out of life. So were always tempted, and theres always a battle : p But I love God, and I want to be with Him, and not live to enjoy my life : p I often think when speaking to Him that Id rather die alone in a ditch and be with Him forever than have everything Ive ever wanted in the world and be rich here in this life : p
And I agree 99% with you, the only thing I disagree with is the change itself. Although it takes a while yeah, like I said before I feel weird when called a "man", and prefer more biological terms like "male", there has to be a willingness in them to make the change and come to Him.
When I say "they will not be saved", that is not a call to turn on them and be cruel and horrible. That is a warning that we should carry with us. God knows our struggles, He knows our hearts. He knows if we still feel trouble and struggles. But we must also be willing to come to Him, and accept Him.
So its not that Im saying that as a call to stand against TG people. Its the warning God has given me. We must be willing to accept Him, and seek His help. Theres a difference between a struggle, and a refusal to obey Him. They are not the same thing.