I agree with a lot of what you said here. ..
One truth is that the body is dead because of sin - Romans 8:10.
The law of sin is still in the flesh and will be there until we die or the Lord comes back for us. The power of sin resides in the flesh and it has a "voice".
We can see this in Cain when he slew Abel. God said that sin is crouching at the door - ready to pounce on you. Sin is an entity - a noun which is a person, place or thing. The power of sin is in our flesh from the fall of Adam and it is passed on to everyone that is born in this world.
It is called the mystery of iniquity.
This is where the understanding of the circumcision of the flesh and heart is important. When we receive Christ - the Holy Spirit cuts away our new heart from our body of flesh which as the power of sin still in it.
This is called by 2 names in scripture. The circumcision of the heart/ of Christ and the circumcision of the flesh. This is simply the 2 sides of the same coin. The cutting away spiritually of the flesh from our new man/new heart/new spirit in Christ. Col. 2:11
Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
Now concerning the fact that the old man is indeed dead ( but the flesh which has the law of sin is still here and alive - Romans 7:17-23 - which are the ways to think and act left over from the effects of the old man that is still in the world ).
Scripture is 100% clear that the old man is in fact dead - not going to slowly die off as has been religiously taught. Not knowing this truth creates a works-based righteousness humanistic mindset which does nothing to help us grow in the Lord.
Is Jesus still dying on the cross? We have died on the cross with Jesus in the same manner as He did. We also rose from the dead in the same manner as Jesus did.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Romans 6:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
We have to be "knowing this" - that our old man was crucified with Christ in order to understand the new heart in Christ ( the circumcision of the heart/Christ ) and the fact that our body of flesh might be "done away with."
Done away with is a Greek word that means "to make idle, nullify or useless". This speaks of the flesh not having the same control over us like it did before we were in the first Adam.
The old man/spirit that was attached to the body of sin died on the cross with Jesus and when He rose from the dead - we too rose from the dead with a new spirit - a new heart. We are new creations in Christ now - created in righteousness and holiness.
Again we are NOT the flesh which still has the law of sin in it as has been shown in previous posts by scripture. Romans 7:17-23 shows this clearly.
The flesh is of the world - we as new creations in Christ - the real us is who we are in Christ - joined as one spirit with the Lord.
The flesh will not go with us to be with the Lord. We do get new bodies free of the flesh with the power of sin in it. Thank you Jesus!
To our natural humanistic minds - all these spiritual realities in Christ are foolishness and so we try to nullify the truth by saying it is trying to separate ourselves from ourselves.
The natural mind cannot receive the things of the Spirit because they are spiritually discerned. Which is why we are totally dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal the truths of Christ to us.
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
We still have the world, the flesh and the devil to contend with and Christ has overcome all 3. We are still responsible with what we do in these bodies but Jesus in us has overcome all things so now we are learning to walk by the spirit within us.
I think we've concluded the same thing but disagree on how one gets there.
I see what you're saying and appreciate you taking the time to explain. But I think what you're explaining here is "Gnosis"; that simply the *knowing* is sufficient for there to be a change of our position, "separating" of ourselves from our bodies. This is a slippery slope that leads to the gnostic understanding of the truth of Christ.
I agree with there being a circumcision of the heart, but if we follow the analogy of circumcision in those passages it means "to cut and expose", not "to sever or dismember". The circumcision of the heart describes exposing ones heart to God; an opening of the heart to his words so they can change our walk in life. It's
not a separating of our hearts from our bodies, resulting in our hearts remaining holy while our body remains sinful. No that's duality.
Truly the old man is dead. But if I didn't explain the process of conforming to the image of Christ (i.e. what is also called "*learning* to walk by the spirit" like you say), I would've been accused of "sinless perfectionism" and "claiming I have no sin". And this is (I think) the crux of the OP; that there's a narrow path here, and if we don't see it we Err by straying too much to the right or to the left.
While I know you said you're not speaking of 2 selves (gnostic duality), without also explaining the action of overcoming the flesh along with having the knowledge of the truth, that's where we end up: gnosticism.
James 1:21-22
"So
get rid of all the filth and evil in your lives, and humbly accept the word God has planted in your hearts, for it has the power to save your souls. Be
doers of the word, and
not hearers only. Otherwise, you are deceiving yourselves."
It's not simply about knowing, but also about action, else we're deceiving ourselves. We have to stop sinning.
1 John 2:6
"Those who say they live in God should live their lives
as Jesus did."
"Should live". Christ had a pure heart obedient to God. So we must repent and not sin to live as Jesus did. That's the goal.
1 Peter 1:14-17
"As obedient children,
do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so
be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to
every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:."
Holy in all we do, like Christ is holy, denying the evil desires we had in our former ignorance, because God judges every persons works.
1 John 2:29
"If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that
DOES righteousness is born of him."
Those born of God DO right.
1 John 3:7
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that
DOES righteousness
IS righteous, even as he is righteous."
Righteousness isn't a position/status, but a manifestation (i.e. wrought). A walk in the knowledge.
...not just knowing...
...not just doing...
...But knowing and doing.
