Understanding God’s election
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“Who has said God purposes people to be vile? “
im asking saying God didn’t purpose this or plan and ordain it . Man did it independently apart from Gods Will for them which is good
“Knowing something before it happens as God knew man would disobey and sin does not mean He made anyone do that. “
indeed and agreed we’ll said foreknowledge is one thing , pre ordaining is another
if we look at it foreknolwedge of what would be later is why he ordained Christ before creation to come and be manifest when he was after man had become sinners. Not that they were created sinners but they later became sinners
“but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.”
1 Peter 1:19-21 KJV
It seems foreknowledge is how and why he ordained Christ beforehand.
“him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”
Acts 2: 23
We can tangibly see God has foreknowledge and how Christ was pre ordained in the prophets writings like this before he was born
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
Isaiah 53:5-6 KJV
“It does seem that many people need to break it down to either God makes them sin (which is not true) or they are naturally free to choose (which is not true either). Man is born dead to God. “
“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
Luke 20:38 KJV
Mankind was created and made alive by God , Adams transgression brought sin to mankind’s nature and sin brings death
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
Romans 5:12, 19
Through Adam we inherit a sinful nature then later we sin and are condemned to death we aren’t born dead we’re born condemned to die later when we die. We can be saved and never die or can go ahead and die rejecting the lord
theough Christ and his spirit we inherit a nature of goodness the son of Gods spirit in us .
We’re all going to die because of sin we can die like this by faith
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
Romans 6:3-7
Or we can die in our sins like Jesus warned if we reject him
“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
John 8:24
We’re all gonna die and exist under a sentance of death because we sin having that sinful nature adam caused this when he ate the knowledge of good and evil
We aren’t dead we’re like this corrupted
“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. ..but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
Romans 7:21, 23-24 KJV
God didn’t create us with the e law of sin in us or good and evil he made them good and they lived by his word and fellowshipped with him there was no law but the commandment of life telling them not to earth the forbidden fruit
We inherit his deeds and nature because we all come from his dna and her dna the first two sinners and sin brings death
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
god knows beforehand what’s gonna happen if he eats the fruit so he tells him the truth.
then satans lie comes along
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
Genesis 3:4-6
Both broke the commandment we can discuss why but either way both ones and broke Gods commandment regarding good and evil knowledge and partook as Satan tempted them to do
the choice has always been mans to make between good and evil since we were created God placed good and evil before man life and death and never forced us to choose just told us the truth And said believe and live
Also Warned us of what will happen if we don’t obey fully informed and have to choose life or death
im asking saying God didn’t purpose this or plan and ordain it . Man did it independently apart from Gods Will for them which is good
“Knowing something before it happens as God knew man would disobey and sin does not mean He made anyone do that. “
indeed and agreed we’ll said foreknowledge is one thing , pre ordaining is another
if we look at it foreknolwedge of what would be later is why he ordained Christ before creation to come and be manifest when he was after man had become sinners. Not that they were created sinners but they later became sinners
“but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.”
1 Peter 1:19-21 KJV
It seems foreknowledge is how and why he ordained Christ beforehand.
“him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”
Acts 2: 23
We can tangibly see God has foreknowledge and how Christ was pre ordained in the prophets writings like this before he was born
“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
Isaiah 53:5-6 KJV
“It does seem that many people need to break it down to either God makes them sin (which is not true) or they are naturally free to choose (which is not true either). Man is born dead to God. “
“For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”
Luke 20:38 KJV
Mankind was created and made alive by God , Adams transgression brought sin to mankind’s nature and sin brings death
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
Romans 5:12, 19
Through Adam we inherit a sinful nature then later we sin and are condemned to death we aren’t born dead we’re born condemned to die later when we die. We can be saved and never die or can go ahead and die rejecting the lord
theough Christ and his spirit we inherit a nature of goodness the son of Gods spirit in us .
We’re all going to die because of sin we can die like this by faith
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
Romans 6:3-7
Or we can die in our sins like Jesus warned if we reject him
“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
John 8:24
We’re all gonna die and exist under a sentance of death because we sin having that sinful nature adam caused this when he ate the knowledge of good and evil
We aren’t dead we’re like this corrupted
“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. ..but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
Romans 7:21, 23-24 KJV
God didn’t create us with the e law of sin in us or good and evil he made them good and they lived by his word and fellowshipped with him there was no law but the commandment of life telling them not to earth the forbidden fruit
We inherit his deeds and nature because we all come from his dna and her dna the first two sinners and sin brings death
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
Genesis 2:16-17 KJV
god knows beforehand what’s gonna happen if he eats the fruit so he tells him the truth.
then satans lie comes along
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
Genesis 3:4-6
Both broke the commandment we can discuss why but either way both ones and broke Gods commandment regarding good and evil knowledge and partook as Satan tempted them to do
the choice has always been mans to make between good and evil since we were created God placed good and evil before man life and death and never forced us to choose just told us the truth And said believe and live
Also Warned us of what will happen if we don’t obey fully informed and have to choose life or death
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
John 3:16 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:3-4 KJV
“and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:2 KJV
anyone can be saved many refuse to hear and accept the gospel though
John 3:16 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
1 Timothy 2:3-4 KJV
“and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:2 KJV
anyone can be saved many refuse to hear and accept the gospel though
Are these the terms you were thinking of?
https://biblical-christianity.com/gods-decretive-and-perceptive-will
https://biblical-christianity.com/gods-decretive-and-perceptive-will
What do you mean until then ?
Brother we don’t have to know really much at all for Jesus to accept us as one of his disciples certainly don’t have to wait for any great revelation we just have to believe and acknowledge he’s the lord and then act like what he’s teaching is true and believe it
his disciples didn’t do anything or know anything special when Jesus accepted them brother it’s knowing him that reveals things to us . We have to come with all our flaws in truth and be students and followers but the reason has to be because we believe the gospel that’s in the Bible about Jesus being born and doing everything g he did and showing us light in darkness then returning to heaven to his throne
Brother we don’t have to know really much at all for Jesus to accept us as one of his disciples certainly don’t have to wait for any great revelation we just have to believe and acknowledge he’s the lord and then act like what he’s teaching is true and believe it
his disciples didn’t do anything or know anything special when Jesus accepted them brother it’s knowing him that reveals things to us . We have to come with all our flaws in truth and be students and followers but the reason has to be because we believe the gospel that’s in the Bible about Jesus being born and doing everything g he did and showing us light in darkness then returning to heaven to his throne
The truth is that Pharaoh had EVERY REAL OPPORTUNITY to be saved. He had 10 PLAGUES to consider!
Furthermore, there is no doubt that God wanted him saved as he does all men.
Same goes for the ENTIRE CITY of Jericho. For pity's sake they had a WEEK OF WARNINGS!
What happened?
Here is what happened.
Pharaoh resisted Gods will, and did HIS OWN WILL.....to the point of his own death and the death of his entire army.
Same goes for the Amorite kings and all the cities of Canaan.
Rom 9:19
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
And yes, the Calvinites totally butcher the meaning of this passage. As they do so many others.
Hint: Paul is saying that such an accusation IS BASELESS AND FALSE!
Rom 9:20
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
What is this? It is yet another FALSE ACCUSATION!
=========================================================================
And oh looky here. What is the meaning of THIS passage?
The Calvinites will be sure to BLAME GOD because.....you know....He Alone is God and He Alone knows the end from the beginning.
And Satan likewise blames God for being God. Yes he does. Day in and day out 24/7.
Exo 3:19
And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.
Furthermore, there is no doubt that God wanted him saved as he does all men.
Same goes for the ENTIRE CITY of Jericho. For pity's sake they had a WEEK OF WARNINGS!
What happened?
Here is what happened.
Pharaoh resisted Gods will, and did HIS OWN WILL.....to the point of his own death and the death of his entire army.
Same goes for the Amorite kings and all the cities of Canaan.
Rom 9:19
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
And yes, the Calvinites totally butcher the meaning of this passage. As they do so many others.
Hint: Paul is saying that such an accusation IS BASELESS AND FALSE!
Rom 9:20
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
What is this? It is yet another FALSE ACCUSATION!
=========================================================================
And oh looky here. What is the meaning of THIS passage?
The Calvinites will be sure to BLAME GOD because.....you know....He Alone is God and He Alone knows the end from the beginning.
And Satan likewise blames God for being God. Yes he does. Day in and day out 24/7.
Exo 3:19
And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.
There you go again. I didn't imply God is unloving. I said casting someone into hell is not a manifestation of love. God is perfectly just in casting people into hell. And He is perfectly just in exercising love. He can exercise both at the same time. When He poured out His wrath on Jesus it was both an exercise of love towards mankind, and an exercise of justice towards Jesus. But when He casts an individual into the Lake of Fire it is not both simultaneously an act of love and an act of judgment.
God is merciful, but He doesn't always act mercifully. To Moses He said that He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy, and will likewise harden whom He will harden. Does God stop being merciful when His actions do not engender mercy? No. In the same manner, God is always loving even though His actions don't always convey love. He doesn't stop being loving. He chooses to emphasize or convey a different attribute.
God is merciful, but He doesn't always act mercifully. To Moses He said that He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy, and will likewise harden whom He will harden. Does God stop being merciful when His actions do not engender mercy? No. In the same manner, God is always loving even though His actions don't always convey love. He doesn't stop being loving. He chooses to emphasize or convey a different attribute.
