Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” Born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. You are chosen to proclaim the virtues of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. My soul will exult in my God, for He has clothed me with garments of salvation, and wrapped me in a robe of righteousness.

 

[Rufus]

And yet you insisted at first that a Christian cannot sin. You said -

"1 John 3:7-10
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
NIV

It is the ungodly world that is under the devil's power -- those who live under the control of the flesh, the world and their evil father; not Christ's Church! How long have you been an admirer of the devil? And notice that v. 8b is not in the future tense, as you claim by your earthly millennial kingdom nonsense. John did not teach that Christ will appear to destroy the devils' work -- but rather that He HAS APPEARED, i.e. his first advent!"

Now you seem to be back-tracking to Christians won't 'finally succumb to the devil's attacks into apostasy, but the devil will nevertheless be able to tempt and overcome Christians for a season.

It's sad that you cannot understand what the above passage is teaching. What part of "no one....will continue to sin" or "he cannot go on sinning" can't you unederstand? And what part of the unilateral NC promises can't you understand? For that matter, how come you unserstasnd so little of God's truth!?

 

[Rufus]

You've already butchered the discussion of the Remnant in a failed attempt to put the cart before the horse but look at Paul's application of it and then the Lost Sheep of Israel in the Gospels. Also, look at some of the Israelites awaiting Messiah and even the expectations of some of the Samaritans expecting Messiah. I'd also look at the Prophet sent once again to bring Israel to repentance and the problems created by the shepherds of Israel.

It would also be nice to see some attempt at explaining the why and the how and the timing of the Lord considering Paul's faithfulness to see if there's something there. It's interesting to track how the Lord sees things and note truths such as how He calls sinful King David a man after His own heart.

What in the world are you babbling about? What kind of dressing do you like on your word salads?

 

[Magenta]

What in the world are you babbling about? What kind of dressing do you like on your word salads?

Blameshifting, Crazy-making, Gaslighting, Intermittent Reinforcement, Pathological lying, Projection...

 

[Rufus]

Blameshifting, Crazy-making, Gaslighting, Intermittent Reinforcement, Pathological lying, Projection...

View attachment 274207

I haven't seen that product on any grocery shelves yet, but I will Shirely keep my eyes peeled.

 

[Inquisitor]

Galatians 1:15-16
But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased to reveal
His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not rush to consult with flesh and blood,

Acts 20:24
But I consider my life of no value to me, if only I may finish my course and complete the ministry
I have received from the Lord Jesus—the ministry of testifying to the good news of God’s grace.

Ephesians 3:7
I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace, given me through the working of His power.

Colossians 1:25
I became its servant by the commission God gave me to fully proclaim to you the word of God,

1 Timothy 2:7
For this reason I was appointed as a preacher, an apostle, and a faithful and true
teacher of the Gentiles. I am telling the truth; I am not lying about anything.

Romans 15:16
to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so
that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He
has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and freedom to the prisoners,

Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were
born I set you apart and appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Oh, dear. The way some interpret Scripture, Paul was forced to believe.
The way some interpret Scripture, it was unfair of God.
The way some interpret Scripture, this means God is an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their will.

I would not use Paul as an example to support a theology.

Paul was a specific individual chosen for a specific duty.

Paul is identical to John the Baptist in that they are were both uniquely chosen for a given purpose.

Paul did not hear the gospel and respond.

Paul directly encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus.

One cannot extrapolate Paul's conversion and then say that every Gentile, will be chosen the same way.

The best way to understand divine election is the corporate election of Jews or Gentiles.

 

[studier]

What in the world are you babbling about? What kind of dressing do you like on your word salads?

Indicative of your inabilities in Scripture and argumentation. No surprises here.

 

[Rufus]

I would not use Paul as an example to support a theology.

Paul was a specific individual chosen for a specific duty.

Paul is identical to John the Baptist in that they are were both uniquely chosen for a given purpose.

Paul did not hear the gospel and respond.

Paul directly encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus.

One cannot extrapolate Paul's conversion and then say that every Gentile, will be chosen the same way.

The best way to understand divine election is the corporate election of Jews or Gentiles.

So, when Jesus said, "Many are called but few are chosen" -- you think he was saying many nations are called but few nations are chosen?

 

[Rufus]

Indicative of your inabilities in Scripture and argumentation. No surprises here.

I don't argue with pyscho-babbelers. Nothing personal.

 

[Inquisitor]

So, when Jesus said, "Many are called but few are chosen" -- you think he was saying many nations are called but few nations are chosen?

That's exactly what the text (Matthew 22) states; a corporate elction.

Israel was severed and the Gentile nations were invited to the wedding feast.

It may be hard for some to accept but that is what the text tells us.

 

[studier]

I don't argue with pyscho-babbelers. Nothing personal.

Good label for several basic Biblical Doctrines you don't understand. The effects of one basic erroneous presupposition. Coupled with the repetitive ad-hominem fallacy and the continuing disaster remains on display.

 

[Mem]

I guess you never read:

Phil 2:13
13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.?
ESV

It's not that I don't read. It's just that my reading comprehensive is on a different level in comparison to yours.

 

[PaulThomson]

It's sad that you cannot understand what the above passage is teaching. What part of "no one....will continue to sin" or "he cannot go on sinning" can't you unederstand? And what part of the unilateral NC promises can't you understand? For that matter, how come you unserstasnd so little of God's truth!?

You posted;

"1 John 3:7-10
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
NIV

It is the ungodly world that is under the devil's power -- those who live under the control of the flesh, the world and their evil father; not Christ's Church! "

But now you are saying that " 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning," means he who keeps on doing what is sinful is of the devil. because the present tense can mean that. And this post hoc rationalisation serves to create a mot to replace you bailey.

But in another discussion you will use "No one does good" to assert that no one can ever do any good, and you will reject completely that "No one does good" could mean "no one keeps on doing good".

You are inconsistent in your insistence, only choosing whatever feeds your addiction to Calvinism.

 

[HeIsHere]

Good label for several basic Biblical Doctrines you don't understand.

It does not get anymore basic than soteriology/odro salutis presented clearly in scripture.

 

[Rufus]

That's exactly what the text (Matthew 22) states; a corporate elction.

Israel was severed and the Gentile nations were invited to the wedding feast.

It may be hard for some to accept but that is what the text tells us.

What verse in Mat 22 states "corporate election"? There's nothing in the parable that says that the king sent out his servants to gather the nations to his wedding feast. But they did go out to gather individuals from other ethnicities.

Jesus did not teach that many nations are called but few nations are chosen. Which of the few nations on this earth are chosen? You must know which nations, right?

Also, for your info, Jesus did not teach the the kingdom would be given to multiple nations; rather he said that the kingdom would be taken away from Israel and given to A NATION who would produce the fruit thereof (Mat 21:43). What nation would that be?

 

[Rufus]

You posted;

"1 John 3:7-10
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
NIV

It is the ungodly world that is under the devil's power -- those who live under the control of the flesh, the world and their evil father; not Christ's Church! "

But now you are saying that " 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning," means he who keeps on doing what is sinful is of the devil. because the present tense can mean that. And this post hoc rationalisation serves to create a mot to replace you bailey.

But in another discussion you will use "No one does good" to assert that no one can ever do any good, and you will reject completely that "No one does good" could mean "no one keeps on doing good".

You are inconsistent in your insistence, only choosing whatever feeds your addiction to Calvinism.

Anytime any CHRISTIAN sins, most especially willful, presumption sins, he is doing what is of the devil. (Recall Jesus' sharp rebuke to Peter, calling him "Satan" when the apostle opposed Jesus' statement about his own impending death, cf. Mat 16:23?) In fact, that person at the time he sins is not loving God either! But the thrust of 1Jn 3 is not dealing with intermittent or occasional sin (such as 1Jn 1:8-10 is) , but rather sin in the context of the sanctified Christian lifestyle as a whole. This is why the Christian life is characterized by daily confession of sin to God and repentance. If anyone professes to be a believer, yet his life is characterized by ongoing sin, there is good reason to believe that his faith could well be spurious since he's likely a "bad tree" that cannot bear good fruit. After all, Jesus also said that "you shall know them by their fruits" (Mat 7:16).

Finally, Rom 3, to which you alluded to has nothing to do with 1Jn 3. Rom 3:9ff is Paul's indictment of the ungodly world; whereas 1Jn 3 is dealing with believers. You're comparing apples with oranges. And you talk about my logic!!!??? Pull that plank out of your own eye before presuming to point to it in anyone's else's.

 

[Rufus]

It's not that I don't read. It's just that my reading comprehensive is on a different level in comparison to yours.

Hmm...when you're right, you're right. Your reading comp level seems to compare well with the world's. I mean...is God actually working his will in his people, or just potentially working his will into them? Or maybe he's just providing an opportunity to all to have his will worked in them?

 

[Magenta]

It does not get anymore basic than soteriology/odro salutis presented clearly in scripture.

How then did you get it so confused, and why do you ignore the pre-emptive steps necessary that enable one to believe, which you and your ilk dismiss offhandedly as if they did not even exist? Since the natural man is wholly incapable according to many verses, being unable to receive or comprehend the spiritual things of God, and the gospel message being foolishness to him, which some do not even hear, while he is suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, captive to the will of the devil, a hater of God, inherently hostile in his mind toward Him and opposed to spiritual truths etc etc etc. My goodness. But here you are yet again claiming it is clear, when you can't even see it.

 

[Mem]

Hmm...when you're right, you're right. Your reading comp level seems to compare well with the world's. I mean...is God actually working his will in his people, or just potentially working his will into them? Or maybe he's just providing an opportunity to all to have his will worked in them?

It's good to see you progressing in trying to work it out.
For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17

 

[Rufus]

It's good to see you progressing in trying to work it out.
For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17

I worked things out a long time ago, madam. Unlike you, I know God saves all men [w/o distinction] in this world. If Christ actually and truly and really atoned for the sins of all men w/o exception (as opposed to potentially atoning), then this must mean that he also redeemed all men in the world w/o exception, right? Yet, the same apostle wrote elsewhere:

Rev 5:9
9 And they sang a new song:

"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
NIV

Does your translation read that God redeemed/purchased ALL men for God, or each and every person for God, or all men w/o exception for God? Or does the passage say that the Lamb potentially purchased all men for God?

And again,

Rev 7:9
9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
NIV

Or does the above passage say that "before me was a multitude consisting of everyone in the world..."?

Eisegesis is a bear because you're adding to scripture what God did not put into it! You see the term "world" or "whole world" -- and then you have this knee jerk reaction that triggers an interpretation of "each and every person w/o exception", as being the only viable way of understanding the passage.

Also, since God is a covenant God in that he has established the medium of covenants to form the basis for Him having a personal, saving, redemptive relationship with his chosen people, then please point me to the covenant that God made with all men w/o exception. Where is this covenant that God universally made with all men? What are this covenant's conditions? Don't you know that God's covenant of love is made only with his elect (Deut 7:9-12; Dan 9:4, etc.). When Christ instituted the New Covenant at the Last Supper, did he institute that covenant with the entire world or with his chosen people?