Understanding purgotry

[Gideon300]

Can purgotry be proved from a biblical sense, or is this idea based on, when somebody believes purgotry can be believed, it's on the bases that purgotry makes perfect sense from what they believe the word is saying

Purgatory is not Biblical. Scripture says that we die and face the judgement. (Hebrews 9:27). Those without Christ are spiritually dead. The wages of sin is death, so what have sinners got to pay for their sin? Nothing! Only the blood of Christ can pay for sin. And the sacrifice of Christ as He shed his precious blood is sufficient for God. Jesus is the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. We cannot pay for our own sins.

 

[Jordon]

Purgatory is not Biblical. Scripture says that we die and face the judgement. (Hebrews 9:27). Those without Christ are spiritually dead. The wages of sin is death, so what have sinners got to pay for their sin? Nothing! Only the blood of Christ can pay for sin. And the sacrifice of Christ as He shed his precious blood is sufficient for God. Jesus is the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. We cannot pay for our own sins.

Yep I mean it could be a case of Blobby blobby blobby now, but is it

I think to get the complete picture, from a Catholic theology is that when a sin is commited, the sin can be forgiven but it still leaves a stain on the conscience.

As they say, you can take the nails out of cross, but there will still be a hole there afterwards

 

[Jordon]

You sin in your flesh, flesh and blood cannot enter heaven(1Cor15:50) Why would your flesh need to be purged of sin to enter somewhere it is not going to?

This the complete picture of venial sin and mortal sin from a Catholic perspective

But can this be aligned with the protestant bible that's the question


In Catholic theology, venial sin is considered a "stain" or "spot" on the soul, but in a less permanent sense than mortal sin. It wounds, rather than destroys, charity within the soul, weakening one's relationship with God without causing total separation or spiritual death.
Key Details on Venial Sin:

• Definition: A less serious offense against God's law.
• Impact: It dulls spiritual senses, makes the soul more vulnerable to mortal sin, and requires purification (often in Purgatory).
• Contrast with Mortal Sin: While mortal sin removes sanctifying grace and kills the soul, venial sin only injures it.
• Remission: Venial sins are forgiven through contrition, prayer, and receiving the Eucharist, not just through the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
• Accumulation: While one venial sin does not cut one off from God, accumulating them can lead to a state that brings one closer to mortal sin.

 

[Undergrace1]

This the complete picture of venial sin and mortal sin from a Catholic perspective

But can this be aligned with the protestant bible that's the question


In Catholic theology, venial sin is considered a "stain" or "spot" on the soul, but in a less permanent sense than mortal sin. It wounds, rather than destroys, charity within the soul, weakening one's relationship with God without causing total separation or spiritual death.
Key Details on Venial Sin:

• Definition: A less serious offense against God's law.
• Impact: It dulls spiritual senses, makes the soul more vulnerable to mortal sin, and requires purification (often in Purgatory).
• Contrast with Mortal Sin: While mortal sin removes sanctifying grace and kills the soul, venial sin only injures it.
• Remission: Venial sins are forgiven through contrition, prayer, and receiving the Eucharist, not just through the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
• Accumulation: While one venial sin does not cut one off from God, accumulating them can lead to a state that brings one closer to mortal sin.

Maybe it depends on whether you believe Jesus died at Calvary for only your past sins, or whether he died for all your sins, past, present and future

 

[Jordon]

Maybe it depends on whether you believe Jesus died at Calvary for only your past sins, or whether he died for all your sins, past, present and future

This is true you can believe this but who cleanses them


Isaiah
Come now, and let us reason together,” saith the Lord. “Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

 

[Undergrace1]

This is true you can believe this but who cleanses them


Isaiah
Come now, and let us reason together,” saith the Lord. “Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. Heb10:11-14

 

[Jordon]

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. Heb10:11-14

We touched on this that by daily renewal guilt could be what exactly,
Hebrews 10
let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience

Does does guilt stay in the conscience in purgatory
King James Bible Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things so ever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.


Says the whole world is guilty before God.

So is conscience a daily renewal of purgatory

 

[Undergrace1]

We touched on this that by daily renewal guilt could be what exactly,
Hebrews 10
let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience

Does does guilt stay in the conscience in purgatory
King James Bible Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things so ever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.


Says the world is guilty before God.

So is conscience a daily renewal of purgatory

I think you need to reread the scripture I quoted

 

[Jordon]

I think you need to reread the scripture I quoted

I will do can you repost it.

King James Bible
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

How does the whole world become guilty before God, have you ever been asked that

 

[Undergrace1]

I will do can you repost it.

King James Bible
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.


How does the whole world become guilty before God, have you ever been asked that

What is the need to repost it, you only have to scroll back a couple of my posts.

Though that is simple to answer, I really see no point. You and I don't appear to get anywhere when discussing the bible, so I will bow out of the conversation.

 

[Jordon]

So I found an understanding on an understanding belief of purgatory, but I wonder is this Catholic

@CS1 purgatory From a Catholic discussion is here to discuss.

Care to discuss and watch this sermon.

So he says purgatory means to die in state of friendship with the God , is he saying that your not dead at stage?

Then he gives lots of quotes from our protestant bible to back purgatory up, and his own stupid catholic bible

So then he quotes purgatory is for purification of past sins and it also detachment from current things or sins ?.

So again what is praying for the dead with purgatory ?. how can you be dead if your being purified. But anyhoo I want people to hear this crap

As this is denying The authority of Christ



He calls Christians none Catholic Christian brothers

I bet no one has even watched this sermon, and as always question me.

So don't assume that I believe in this.

He says his church are able to help those suffering in purgatory through prayer, though the prayer of eucharist.



He says when we pray for the suffering to be removed from the saints suffering in heaven. We pray for there suffering to be transferred to us, and the outcome come of that is you become a saint, by praying for a saint in heaven


Now I don't like the tone of his voice but that's another story

In fact I think hes wound up monkey


Now the question do catholics teach also free will and human conscience has the final decision in salvation.

 

[Jordon]

What is the need to repost it, you only have to scroll back a couple of my posts.

Though that is simple to answer, I really see no point. You and I don't appear to get anywhere when discussing the bible, so I will bow out of the conversation.

That's up to you but dont Keep talking to me then tell me you don't want to, as that's just ignorant.

The question I want to know is, have the Catholics given us the wrong idea of purgatory maybe @CS1 could understand, I want to know if there was another reason praying for people in paradises other than stupid purgatory.

And really maybe we should still have the book Maccabees in our protestant bible.

And If I get any more assumptions im absolutely done with this forum.

 

[Undergrace1]

That's up to you but dont Keep talking to me then tell me you don't want to, as that's just ignorant.

The question I want to know is, have the Catholics given us the wrong idea of purgatory maybe @CS1 could understand, I want to know if there was another reason praying for people in paradises other than stupid purgatory.

And really maybe we should still have the book Maccabees in our protestant bible.

And If I get any more assumptions im absolutely done with this forum.

Then you shouldnt have changed the subject to your pet delight

 

[Jordon]

Then you shouldnt have changed the subject to your pet delight

err you brought up Hebrews 10 again and youve changed the discussion into a let's gets personal discussion. instead of observing and answering the question you failed to answer in the previous thread.

 

[Undergrace1]

err you brought up Hebrews 10 again and youve changed the discussion into a let's gets personal discussion. instead of observing and answering the question you failed to answer in the previous thread.

No, I brought up Hebrews 10 in direct relation to the subject of your thread, you sought to change the subject to a debate we previously had. If you remember, I refused to discuss that with you anymore, as you refused to address my posts which proved your errors of belief

 

[Jordon]

No, I brought up Hebrews 10 in direct relation to the subject of your thread, you sought to change the subject to a debate we previously had. If you remember, I refused to discuss that with you anymore, as you refused to address my posts which proved your errors of belief

the question you failed to answer in Hebrews 10, is why does a saved person needs to pray to have a heart cleansed of a guilty conscience.

Now Hebrew 10 does say the heart will be cleansed of a guilty conscience, but is it also saying guilt remains in the conscience like a blemish. Which reminds you again and again not to do that sin again.

Which is related to the true meaning of purification, that the Catholics call purgatory.

So should purgatory just be called purification, maybe @CS1 could understand my drift now.


Now what you may not be failing to see, is in order to see an error i have to show the error in the Catholic light to make people see that actually we do need to see purgatory in a different light.

 

[Undergrace1]

the question you failed to answer in Hebrews 10, is why does a saved person needs to pray to have a heart cleansed of a guilty conscience.

Now Hebrew 10 does say the heart will be cleansed of a guilty conscience, but is it also saying guilt remains in the conscience like a blemish. Which reminds you again and again not to do that sin again.

Which is related to the true meaning of purification, that the Catholics call purgatory.

So should purgatory just be called purification, maybe @CS1 could understand my drift now.


Now what you may not be failing to see, is in order to see an error i have to show the error in the Catholic light to make people see that actually we do need to see purgatory in a different light.

This is what my quote from Hebrews 10 stated:
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.


It directly relates to the subject matter of your thread. But instead of keeping to the subject matter of your thread, you decided to go on walkabouts

 

[Jordon]

This is what my quote from Hebrews 10 stated:
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.


It directly relates to the subject matter of your thread. But instead of keeping to the subject matter of your thread, you decided to go on walkabouts

this talks about a guilty conscience can't be removed from the heart before christ as in by animal sacrifice

Later on in Hebrews 10 it talks about a guilty conscience can be removed from the heart in Christ.

But it makes no reference as to what happens to the conscience.

If you can understand what I'm asking now.

What causes a conscience to be come guilty before being saved and after being saved.

And what happens to the conscience in both conditions

We know the heart gets cleaned completely in Christ but what about the conscience and guilt remaining in the conscience like a blemish when your saved, to remind you not to sin again

As Romans says the whole world is guilty before God

 

[Undergrace1]

this talks about a guilty conscience can't be removed from the heart before christ as in by animal sacrifice

Later on in Hebrews 10 it talks about a guilty conscience can be removed from the heart in Christ.

But it makes no reference as to what happens to the conscience.

If you can understand what I'm asking now.

What causes a conscience to be come guilty before being saved and after being saved.

And what happens to the conscience in both conditions

We know the heart gets cleaned completely in Christ but what about the conscience and guilt remaining in the conscience like a blemish when your saved, to remind you not to sin again

As Romans says the whole world is guilty before God

If you only want to discuss conscience under the old covenant or before it started, just start all your threads plainly stating that. But you should in such circumstances be able to address the posts placed before you concerning that. My post from romans shows there is no need for purgatory. As you do not wish to address it, I will bid you good day

 

[JimiSurvivor]

A Catholic thelogical discussion

Matthew 5:26 is a verse from Jesus Sermon on the Mount, warning believers that they will not be released from spiritual imprisonment until they have fully settled their spiritual debts, urging immediate reconciliation with anyone they have wronged, lest they face severe judgment, being thrown into jail until the last penny is paid, highlighting the importance of resolving earthly conflicts quickly to avoid eternal consequences
.

The thing is, no amount of human suffering can PAY FOR sin. Only the spotless Lamb can "take away the sin of the world." Believing that OUR human suffering can atone for our sin would be like making us our own suffering instead of the "Lamb's" the basis for forgiveness and redemption. No amount of human suffering can not pay for our own sins either here on earth or in the afterlife. Our debt has to be forgiven by God the Father and He forgives because the ransom was His own beloved Son. Jesus had the power to forgive men's sin because of who He was.

If we come to the end of our lives and still have "a debt" remaining, we can no longer ask the Father to "forgive us our debts" since we will have already been judged and sentenced. 27 Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.… (Hebrews 9:27)
The Second Coming will not be about His "bearing our sin" but about bringing salvation.

Some believe that hell is about purification rather than punishment. This is not true Hebrews 10:29How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge His people.”… (Hebrews 10:29-30)
Hell is place of vengeance not correction where men receive just repayment for their sins and their unwillingness to believe in the Saviour.