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Anonimous
Guest
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Anonimous
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3Scoreand10
Guest
it must be a very difficult position to be the elected leader & representative of a secular nation and also have your own moral convictions.
it isn't possible to legislate morality - even the Israelites under the Mosaic law did not have their hearts changed because of the law, and this was the chosen people!
so a man who is elected to represent both ecclesiastic and secular groups has to govern in such a way that the beliefs of one minority aren't imposed on all others, and so that the freedom of every group is guaranteed where it doesn't infringe on that of the others.
if a seventh-day adventist is elected president, is it his prerogative to outlaw sunday worship?
if some other protestant-professing man is elected president, should he outlaw saturday sabbath observance?
if a Mormon is elected, should he require all churches to teach from the book of Mormon? should a Christian president outlaw the Mormon church? does a president who grew up with traditional hymns in a church outlaw contemporary worship music? does a president who believes it's wrong to drink alcohol outlaw it? well, we know how prohibition turned out.
i believe that a ruler of a secular democratic republic has to balance the will of a great variety of demographics, and that politically supporting something from the position of representative power doesn't necessarily mean you are morally in favor of it. we don't look at obesity or licentiousness as criminal actions, but a political leader doesn't de-facto condone them by not specifically outlawing them, or by voting to preserve the freedom of choice of lifestyle.
i don't think it's our place to judge the salvation or heart of president Obama. he has publicly professed to believe Jesus is the son of God and Lord of lords. arguing about his policy - remembering that he has to represent tens of millions of people that don't agree with you as much as he represents you too - arguing about policy is one thing, but judging his soul is another thing, and that thing is the Lord's to consider, not ours.
what if we elected a quaker or mennonite president? would we say he's not a true believer if he doesn't outlaw all electronic devices? or would we say he has to govern so that his personal beliefs aren't imposed on people he represents but doesn't share all convictions with?
allowing abortion or homosexual marriage doesn't force anyone to be gay or to kill embryos.
the USA is not the chosen people of Israel, given a covenant with God and sworn to live under a moral law and to have no other gods but the true & living God.
we're a melting pot of a nation with many 'gods' among the people and politically atheistic or agnostic by design, in order not to interfere with the free worship of our citizens, whatever their belief might be.
the USA is not a Christian nation. we're a nation with a large % of "professing" Christians - who themselves all argue over doctrine - and a large % of those are certainly indistinguishable from completely atheistic people in every way other than what box they check on the census form under "religion."
When you take the 80 or so characteristics as applied unto the daughter of Babylon and do the math with the number of present current nations it is 10.5 billion to one that it is the U.S. which.....
Falls from a strike from thence and from the north
Instigated by Iran, Turkey, Egypt and finished by the bear nation comes from between the Black and Caspian seas
Burns her cities with fire from under the shadow of a cloud and with the tempest of a storm
that is heard around the world while causing the earth to undulate and quake and
kills all of HER young men of war in one hour who remain in their strongholds (bases)
because her technology fails.
She is Identified by her national symbols of a lady (the Lady of the Kingdoms) and the Eagle
She mounts here defenses to the (utmost) heavens and is known militarily as the hammer of the whole earth as well as the melting pot of the world
Like I said---80 characteristics, 13 chapters out of the Bible and 10.5 billion to one when the math is done
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Babylon is Not america. People from the US have to stop boasting that they have such a high place and realise a few things.
1. The world hates us. Unlike Babylon, which the world loves. When the US meets its demise. the world will cheer not be saddened by her demise. (this is enough to prove the US is not her)
2. The US does not fit most of the characteristics of babylon mentioned in revelation
3. The US is not a religion, it is a nation. Babylon is a false religious system, not a nation.
1. The world hates us. Unlike Babylon, which the world loves. When the US meets its demise. the world will cheer not be saddened by her demise. (this is enough to prove the US is not her)
2. The US does not fit most of the characteristics of babylon mentioned in revelation
3. The US is not a religion, it is a nation. Babylon is a false religious system, not a nation.
I didn't say the U.S. WAS BABYLON...daughter of Babylon!
As BABYLON is a city as in MYSTERY, BABYLON, THAT MEGA CITY
and your right...half of the world rejoices at the destruction of BABYLON, THAT MEGA CITY while the rest cries, weeps and moans as NO ONE BUYS THEIR MERCHANDISE ANY MORE...U.S. consumes 90% of the worlds goods!
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
now sure where you get 50% rejoice. Scripture does not say this, it says the world (whole) and her merchants weep. No one rejoices at this. with the exception of maybe the antichrist, who destroys her.
F
Fishbait
Guest
There isn't a "Christian" country anywhere in the world. Never has been. But, most countries have Christians living in them. Obama is a president of a country that moves more and more away from Christian belief. As the Bible told us what is right will be wrong and what is wrong will be right as we get closer to the end of this era. Why some of us Christians are amazed at how things in this world are getting worse amazes me. Jesus told us it would. If things don't get worse then Jesus lied to us. Your "statistis" prove Jesus was right.
50% was arbitrary and was meant to show the division between lost humanity and those who are born again and heaven which are directed to rejoice over her fall...
Maybe read.....Revelation 18:10-11, 15-20 19:1-4
Couple things...
1. The 10 horns (Islamic) that burn the great whore will obviously rejoice at her fall (Revelation 18 last three verses) as we are told in Jeremiah 50, 51 that they will lift up a shout against her and over come her!
2. The merchants weep as they just lost their income...
U.S. not quite 1/20th of the worlds population yet uses 90% of worlds goods
Did the merchants get rich by the 19/20th of the population that purchase roughly 10% of the worlds goods or by the country that consumes 90% of the worlds goods...will remind you that Catholics have already folded in under Islam as the last two Popes acknowledged and bowed to the Koran
3. U.S. has spread Democracy to the known world in some form or fashion--->worship God as you please<---not biblical John 4-->the religion we have spread...worship as you please!
4. U.S. and the ole green back--->which country has not had it's hand in the till?
Interesting fact...there has already been a world wide currency-->dollar as until recently any country that wanted to buy oil had to convert their currency into the WORLDS RESERVE CURRENCY to purchase oil--->which was the $
All I know is if you list the known facts that are applied unto the daughter of Babylon and her yet future destruction as found blended in with Babylon as found in...
Psalm 137, Isaiah 13, 21, 47, Jeremiah 50, 51, Ezekiel 17, Zechariah 2, Revelation 14, 16, 17 and 18 coupled with the following truths...
Some things to note:
1. Classical Babylon was in ruins by 100 B.C.
2. Classical Babylon’s fall was a relative peaceful operation.
3. Classical Babylon and her cities have never be devoured by fire nor
has she become uninhabitable.
4. Classical Babylon I.E. modern Iraq will not be destroyed by fire nor
become uninhabitable because Israel’s future border extends unto the
river Euphrates and even to the “uttermost” sea. Deuteronomy 1:7-8,
Deuteronomy 11:23-24 and God will not burn His heritage and leave it
uninhabitable.
5. Both classic Babylon and the “the daughter of Babylon” have a god as
found in Jeremiah 50:1-2, Jeremiah 51:44 and his real name is found in
Isaiah 14:7-12
6. Remember that when studying this topic the words Chaldee or Chaldean
carries with it the underlying thought of astrology and or astrologists. By
analogy when you read the land of the Chaldeans we are in reality read-
ing the land of astrology or the land of astrologists.
You will find a nation called (the HINDERMOST) of the nations and the facts concerning this nation point to the U.S. with a 10.5 billion to one that it is the U.S. when the math is done.
go read the chapters and notice the (future) context woven through which is applied unto the HINDERMOST OF THE NATIONS. I.E. the culmination of Western Gentile Power and who it is.
Shortly after he became president in 2009, while speaking in Egypt, he said that the United States was NOT a Christian nation.
I recently found some 2013 statistis I want to share with you.
Only 78.4% say they are Christian or Jew.
Only 16% say aboration is wrong for any reason. 7% in mainline churches.
50% say homosexuality is ok. 44% in mainline churches.
50% say same sex marriage is ok. 43% in mainline churches.
56% say religion is very important in their life. 52% in mainline churches.
15% attend church more than once a week. 8% in mainline churches.
33% believe in a litteral interpretation of scripture. 22% of mainline churches.
ONLY 71% have a firm belief in God. 73% in mainline churches.
Obama actually said something I can agree with.
Why do you imply, in your first statistic, that it's okay to not be a Christian, if one affiliates with "the synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9), with those whom 1 John 2;18, 22; 4:3 and 2 John v. 2 identify as "anti-Christ/anti-Christs?"
Why, in the remaining seven statistics, do you use the sins described, to identify America only as, "not a Christian nation?"
Regarding aborticide: Even America does not provide, on demand, free tax funded abortions as do the Israelis. Is America, in this respect, somehow more evil than a nation of neo-Pharisees in old Palestine?
Of all the nations in the world, how many have a higher degree of church attendance than America? Can you name one?
Of all the nations in the world, how many have a higher percentage of people who have a firm belief in God? Can you name one?
Why, of all nations in the world do you point to America only, as guilty of supporting homosexual and lesbian causes? Are other nations somehow not guilty of this?
Why, when there are more Bibles and Christian literature printed in America than all other nations combined, do you join hands with Obama when he says that America "is not a Christian nation."
If America is not, or was not a Christian nation then what is, or was it? Why do you ignore the uniqueness of America, a nation founded by Puritan/Pilgrim Christians, a nation where scripture, more than any nation on earth, is woven into our culture?
Why, if America is not a Christian nation, are there more people in America who worship Jesus than any nation in history?
If then, America is not a Christian nation, what is it? Is it predominately Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, or other?
No, America is not one hundred percent Christian, but it is the most Christian nation. And America, in all probability, is the Stone Kingdom of Bible prophecy, the world's most dominant nation, that which would be in existence at the coming of Jesus the Messiah.
Let's occupy till He comes.
There are many passages in scripture which are universally admitted, by the very learned and judicious, to foretell the rise of a great nationality in the latter times. These predictions cannot, by any reasonable construction, be applied to the rise of such nationality in the land of Judea; but are most wonderfully descriptive of this United States of America, and of no other country under heaven.
Reverend F.E. Pitts of Nashville, Tennessee (as recorded in the Congressional Record of 1857)
Reverend F.E. Pitts of Nashville, Tennessee (as recorded in the Congressional Record of 1857)
While I'm sickened by the idea of the American dream, which seems to have morphed into overt consumerism, we must stick to facts. Nowhere will you find the stat that America consumes 90% of the world's goods or resources.
The actual number is between 24% and 30% depending on what source you research.
We should point out that wealth in and of itself is not a bad thing, it is also a relative state, a person blessed by wealth, who uses his wealth for Godly purposes, which many Americans do, is a good thing.
Your right, as the point I was trying to make is the U.S. is the number one consumer of all goods.
Higher GDP than any other nation
Every day more gold, silver and copper traded in N.Y. than the rest of the worlds markets put together
Number one consumer of OIL
Number one consumer of raw materials
Number one consumer of goods and services
etc..
Notice the numbers and the statement so this too is behind schedule when it comes to actual numbers
The U.S. population is 263 million
... growing among the highest rates of any industrialized country (one percent per year). Unparalleled anywhere, is U.S. consumption--which includes goods as well as services, waste products, and raw materials; in short, the total mass of materials and energy sources that make its way through our economy.
And to be fair I find numbers from your stated 24 to 30% and as high as 90% depending on what is being talked about and everything in between...some 50%, some 38%, some 68% etc.
At the end of the day the numbers are mute as the point stands...WE consume more in this nation than the rest of the world!
D
Denken
Guest
We are not a Christian Nation, to be a Christian Nation everything in the nation would be agreed by all our laws and politics. We have a large number of Christians but our country isnt ruled by the bible. We are the largest producer/trader of intellectual property.
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I would agree with this as to enjoy the fruits of your labor is God given, having said that it is evident that the majority is (mad upon their idols)
And just why is that you think?
I'd submit that it WAS because of the Lord's blessings. We USED to stand for all that was moral and good, mostly because we adhered to Judeo/Christian morality guided by Scripture. Also because of our FORMER staunch support of Israel.
A morally Bible-centered society, that relied on a capitalist system, restrained by a masterfully laid out Constitution, created the wealthiest, incredibly blessed nation the world has ever seen, that more times than not, used it's great wealth as net positive in the world.
I no longer believe we are that great nation. We are the proverbial chicken that doesn't know it's head is cut off. No matter where you look at America today, politics, media,culture, finances, school system, and even some churches, there is vast evil and decay. Couple that with our overt hostility towards Israel and you have a nation ripe for stored wrath.
Our ONLY hope is 2Chronicles 7:14
14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.