Was sex Adam and Eve part of the curse

[Lovette]

Be eschatalogically minded, think more about godly things and less about worldly things. Sex is the epitome of fleshly lust. The human body itself is not shameful or sinful, lusting for another person's body is.

“The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. (Luke 20:34-36)

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. (1 Jn. 2:15-17)

 

[KelbyofGod]

Ok, forgive my ignorance but what is MFW?

 

[Gideon300]

In Gen 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

This command was before the fall, yet they didn’t have sex until after the fall.

God ordained sex prior to the fall. Adam and Eve did not eat from the fruit of the tree of life, yet they were at liberty to do so. The reality is that God does not condemn sex when it is in the marriage relationship.

 

[KelbyofGod]

The responses in this thread are so disappointing, yet typical. Folks think they know everything about the Bible and then forbid anyone from discussing it. Unbelievable. So, because YOU don't have the answers, why should anyone else? Such narcissism and paranoia will destroy the Church. This is why Christianity is dying. People need answers and yet you hinder people from finding said answers.

Luke 11:52 - Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Moreover...

The Genesis creation account is not some 'nursery rhyme' to be interpreted through the lens of a "babies come from storks" mindset. Are there any adults here? So far, all I see are 'milk drinkers'. We have the entire Bible at our disposal to help us unravel whether the man and woman had intercourse. It's not rocket science.

*WARNING* Those of you who despise logic and common sense, please stop reading before you short circuit.

Anyhow...

The Tree of Life and sex are not compatible. You people should know this. Angels in Heaven are not "having sex and eating from the Tree of Life". Think about what you are teaching. Don't be so paranoid about this topic that you become irresponsible. Atheists pick up on this and will mock you to your face for being so ignorant.

But whatever, let's pretend that such blasphemy is occurring. So now you have two people, WHO ARE IMMORTAL, who never age, somehow making babies. How does that work exactly? Does Adam have immortal sperm? How does the zygote age if it is immortal? Come on people... use some common sense here.

Scripture teaches that there was no death before the Fall:

Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

What happens to all of the sperm inside the woman when the man plants his seed in her? Does the sperm live forever? No death means no death. You folks have no idea what Genesis teaches. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."

Again, was there death and sin before the Fall?

James 1:15 - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

I will try to help...

The man and woman did not have a physical body before they partook of the Forbidden Fruit. Do you understand?

NAKED MEANS NO PHYSICAL BODY!!!

Use your Bible to unpack the story:

2 Corinthians 5:1-4 - For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

So obviously the man and woman could not procreate without a body. Again, this is common sense and logic which seems to be forbidden around here for some reason. There is a Spirit at work for sure.

Pay attention. This is when God gave them a body:

Genesis 3:21 - Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Those of you sucking on the baby bottle were told that 'God killed an animal and dressed them'. That is more nursery rhyme nonsense.

Let Scripture interpret Scripture:

Job 10:11 - Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.

Now do you understand what 'coats of skins' means?

Again:

being clothed we shall not be found naked

Being clothed with what? A body.

As I mentioned earlier, 'no shame' means they had no reproductive organs:

Genesis 2:25 - And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

God did not originally create them with shame. Eden was a Heavenly place before the Fall. There is no sex in Heaven. So why do you teach that? You people are making rookie mistakes. Just stop already.

Revelation 16:15 - Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

It was the Fall that caused the man and woman to be corrupted with the shame we have now. They made a covenant with death and God gave them what they wanted. God clothed them with an earthly tabernacle, complete with all the bells and whistles to make babies through sin and death. The man and woman tried to cover their shame, i.e., cover their new body parts.

The more you know.

What do you do with the verse about God taking the rib from Adam and closing up the flesh instead thereof? (Gen. 2:21). And Genesis 2:23 which both mention flesh? And both come before any mention of being naked.

Genesis 2:23-25 KJV - And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

 

[KelbyofGod]

God ordained sex prior to the fall. Adam and Eve did not eat from the fruit of the tree of life, yet they were at liberty to do so. The reality is that God does not condemn sex when it is in the marriage relationship.

Here's something to consider in addition to your point:

God commanded them to be fruitful and multiply. Could they obey God's command without having sex?

 

[Lovette]

Here's something to consider in addition to your point:

God commanded them to be fruitful and multiply. Could they obey God's command without having sex?

Yes. Lord Jesus was the second Adam, did he ever have sex with anybody? The true interpretation of this command is his parting words - making disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe his commands, Matt. 28:19-20. That's the ultimate fulfillment. Not just making babies. Any animal can make babies, their only purposes of life are survival and reproduction, we are human beings made in the image of God, not filthy animals.

 

[KelbyofGod]

One other thing... God created the whales, sea creatures and winged fowl before man, commanding those creatures to be fruitful and multiply, etc. Would those creatures be wrong or sinning if they had sex to reproduce? (Before Adam and eve even existed)

 

[KelbyofGod]

Yes. Lord Jesus was the second Adam, did he ever have sex with anybody? The true interpretation of this command is his parting words - making disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe his commands, Matt. 28:19-20. That's the ultimate fulfillment. Not just making babies. Any animal can make babies, their only purposes of life are survival and reproduction, we are human beings made in the image of God, not filthy animals.

Yet God commanded Adam and Eve with the same words as the animals "be fruitful and multiply".

Same words.

Are you implying:

1. Same words = different meaning?

Or

2. Are you suggesting the animals were supposed to use the same method you suggest Adam and Eve were supposed to use?

Or

3. Some other thing?

 

[KelbyofGod]

I suggest that Adam and Eve were expected to use the same method of "be fruitful and multiply" that the other similarly equipped creatures were supposed to use... Sex.

In other words, sex wasn't wrong. It was established by God before man sinned.

But that doesn't mean everything done with sex since man fell is also somehow good.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Yes. Lord Jesus was the second Adam, did he ever have sex with anybody? The true interpretation of this command is his parting words - making disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe his commands, Matt. 28:19-20. That's the ultimate fulfillment. Not just making babies. Any animal can make babies, their only purposes of life are survival and reproduction, we are human beings made in the image of God, not filthy animals.

BTW, Thanks for replying. (I forgot to say that on my first response)

Sex and marriage and male and female are all basically parables of the true. (But hard to understand if people think too fleshy about it, especially regarding sex.).

Everything natural is here to teach us how spiritual principles work.

I believe that's kind of what you were saying too. Although, you seem to be saying that Adam and Eve weren't allowed to have sex until they sinned. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[Lovette]

Yet God commanded Adam and Eve with the same words as the animals "be fruitful and multiply".

Same words.

Are you implying:

1. Same words = different meaning?

Or

2. Are you suggesting the animals were supposed to use the same method you suggest Adam and Eve were supposed to use?

Or

3. Some other thing?

Neither, I'm telling you it's not a "command", but a matter of fact statement. In the same sentence God also told Adam and Eve to subdue the earth and have dominion over all creatures, does that mean we get to exhaust all of mother earth's resources, cutting down all forests, killing off all animals? Converting all the land into residential area? If you take the first half of Gen. 1:28 literally, why not take the second half of Gen. 1:28 literally?

 

[Lovette]

BTW, Thanks for replying. (I forgot to say that on my first response)

Sex and marriage and male and female are all basically parables of the true. (But hard to understand if people think too fleshy about it, especially regarding sex.).

Everything natural is here to teach us how spiritual principles work.

I believe that's kind of what you were saying too. Although, you seem to be saying that Adam and Eve weren't allowed to have sex until they sinned. Am I understanding you correctly?

I'm telling you to let the bible interpret itself. Was Jesus the second Adam or not? Was he "allowed" to have sex? Did he ever have with anybody? Had he sinned? And does anywhere in the bible state or imply, that one's salvation is hinged upon their reproductive success?

You seem to be frowning upon people "thinking too fleshly about it", then if you wanna think spiritually about it, how about thinking like a spiritual creature, such as an angel - who neither marry nor are given in marriage, Matt. 22:30?

 

[GWH]

Please provide "explicitly" (chapter/verse) where God ever revealed Adam and Eve did have or did not have sex before they sinned.

I am willing to look into "implicit" verses or "harmonizing" verses which indicate Adam and Eve did have or did not have sex before they sinned. If you have that information, please provide and I'll look into it ... thanks.

speculation is nothing more than guessing. When dealing with God's Word, it's best to rely on chapter and verse. Since God did not reveal what OP claimed, all else is speculation ... kind of like whether Adam and Eve had belly buttons (rut row ... another can of worms opened).

When you provide specific proof (chapter and verse) concerning the issue, I will stand corrected in my reliance on Deuteronomy 29:29 to infer we do not know whether or not Adam and Eve had sexual relations before the fall.

For all we know, we're delving into matters God does not want us to delve into.

.

I believe the story of A&E indicates they sinned as soon as the law was given, not that they had a long history of being morally perfect and had children before finally succumbing to temptation.

The Scripture I provide is that Genesis 2-3 does NOT describe a long history of sinlessness before sinning
NOR having sex until after they discovered their nakedness.

 

[Lovette]

I believe the story of A&E indicates they sinned as soon as the law was given, not that they had a long history of being morally perfect and had children before finally succumbing to temptation.

The Scripture I provide is that Genesis 2-3 does NOT describe a long history of sinlessness before sinning
NOR having sex until after they discovered their nakedness.

In Jewish tradition, they sinned on day 10, Wednesday after the creation week, hence the day of atonement, the 10th day of the 7th month (liturgical calendar) and the 1st month (civil calendar). Jewish new year is set on the civil calendar in autumn.

 

[GWH]

In Jewish tradition, they sinned on day 10, Wednesday after the creation week, hence the day of atonement, the 10th day of the 7th month (liturgical calendar) and the 1st month (civil calendar). Jewish new year is set on the civil calendar in autumn.

Per Jewish tradition I would place the creation of A&E in Eden on day 10, and their sin so immediately afterward as to be essentially simultaneous and before having sex, comparable to all human children reaching the age/stage of moral accountability/losing innocence.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Any animal can make babies, their only purposes of life are survival and reproduction, we are human beings made in the image of God, not filthy animals.

The seed of David wrote in the Book of the Preacher, "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Eccl 3:18

I'm telling you to let the bible interpret itself.

So does you Bible interpret that God made the beast of the earth after his kind? Gen 1:25

how about thinking like a spiritual creature, such as an angel - who neither marry nor are given in marriage,

Are you referring unto thinking like the "sons of God" written of in Genesis 6:2 who many believe were angelic beings?

Was Jesus the second Adam or not? Was he "allowed" to have sex? Did he ever have with anybody?

Now there was the time in the city of Samaria where Jesus and his disciples were hanging at a water well when a woman came to draw water from the well. Jesus sent his disciples off and told the woman to draw him a drink. And the woman asked him why would a man like him want to have anything to do with a woman like her. Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water
.John 4:10

Have you ever heard a come on line?

Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?

Fish on!

Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this well water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give shall be inside a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.

This is why he is called the wonderful counselor, because no lawyer ever asks a question they don't know what the answer is going to be.

Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:

Ipso facto

For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a man of God

 

[Dino246]

The responses in this thread are so disappointing, yet typical. Folks think they know everything about the Bible and then forbid anyone from discussing it. Unbelievable. So, because YOU don't have the answers, why should anyone else? Such narcissism and paranoia will destroy the Church. This is why Christianity is dying. People need answers and yet you hinder people from finding said answers.

Luke 11:52 - Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Moreover...

The Genesis creation account is not some 'nursery rhyme' to be interpreted through the lens of a "babies come from storks" mindset. Are there any adults here? So far, all I see are 'milk drinkers'. We have the entire Bible at our disposal to help us unravel whether the man and woman had intercourse. It's not rocket science.

*WARNING* Those of you who despise logic and common sense, please stop reading before you short circuit.

Anyhow...

The Tree of Life and sex are not compatible. You people should know this. Angels in Heaven are not "having sex and eating from the Tree of Life". Think about what you are teaching. Don't be so paranoid about this topic that you become irresponsible. Atheists pick up on this and will mock you to your face for being so ignorant.

But whatever, let's pretend that such blasphemy is occurring. So now you have two people, WHO ARE IMMORTAL, who never age, somehow making babies. How does that work exactly? Does Adam have immortal sperm? How does the zygote age if it is immortal? Come on people... use some common sense here.

Scripture teaches that there was no death before the Fall:

Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

What happens to all of the sperm inside the woman when the man plants his seed in her? Does the sperm live forever? No death means no death. You folks have no idea what Genesis teaches. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."

Again, was there death and sin before the Fall?

James 1:15 - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

I will try to help...

The man and woman did not have a physical body before they partook of the Forbidden Fruit. Do you understand?

NAKED MEANS NO PHYSICAL BODY!!!

Use your Bible to unpack the story:

2 Corinthians 5:1-4 - For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

So obviously the man and woman could not procreate without a body. Again, this is common sense and logic which seems to be forbidden around here for some reason. There is a Spirit at work for sure.

Pay attention. This is when God gave them a body:

Genesis 3:21 - Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Those of you sucking on the baby bottle were told that 'God killed an animal and dressed them'. That is more nursery rhyme nonsense.

Let Scripture interpret Scripture:

Job 10:11 - Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.

Now do you understand what 'coats of skins' means?

Again:

being clothed we shall not be found naked

Being clothed with what? A body.

As I mentioned earlier, 'no shame' means they had no reproductive organs:

Genesis 2:25 - And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

God did not originally create them with shame. Eden was a Heavenly place before the Fall. There is no sex in Heaven. So why do you teach that? You people are making rookie mistakes. Just stop already.

Revelation 16:15 - Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

It was the Fall that caused the man and woman to be corrupted with the shame we have now. They made a covenant with death and God gave them what they wanted. God clothed them with an earthly tabernacle, complete with all the bells and whistles to make babies through sin and death. The man and woman tried to cover their shame, i.e., cover their new body parts.

The more you know.

Unadulterated gnosticism.

 

[DavidLamb]

Adam and Eve having offspring is essentially being "born again."
Adam=water,
Eve=blood,
seed=spirit.

John 3:6
Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.

The serpent knows what he was doing,which is why he deceived Eve and not Adam before they had offspring.He went after the blood.

All of this relates to living Arks and offerings.
View attachment 296083

Where do your equations about Adam being water, Eve being blood, and the seed being spirit come from? I can't think of any reference in Scripture to such things, or to their having children as being born again. When Jesus used that phrase, Nicodemus thought Her was talking about a natural birth, and asked if a man could go back into his mother's womb.

 

[Lovette]

The seed of David wrote in the Book of the Preacher, "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Eccl 3:18

Yeah so is the ANTICHRIST, the Beast is its ultimate manifestation

So does you Bible interpret that God made the beast of the earth after his kind? Gen 1:25

ITS kind.

Are you referring unto thinking like the "sons of God" written of in Genesis 6:2 who many believe were angelic beings?

Having sex is overstepping their boundaries.

 

[Researcher]

What do you do with the verse about God taking the rib from Adam and closing up the flesh instead thereof? (Gen. 2:21). And Genesis 2:23 which both mention flesh? And both come before any mention of being naked.

Genesis 2:23-25 KJV - And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Hi @KelbyofGod . Great question.

I have to go to work so I can expand on this later, but basically the man was originally created spirit and soul only:

Genesis 2:7 - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

We are tripartite beings. Most Christians have yet to understand that the Bible teaches that a soul is synonymous with what we now call a genome. That is where the word 'flesh' has a special meaning.

Because the context teaches that man was spirit and soul only, i.e., he had no body yet, we must defer to the rarely used meaning of flesh:

2 Corinthians 3:3 - Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Ezekiel 11:19 - And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 36:26 - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The phrase 'tables of the heart' is referring to our genome, our soul (word was made flesh).

Thus, what you see in Genesis 2 is describing, in crude language, the process of gene alteration. The 'rib' is symbolic of a unique genetic type, kind of like a race. Think of the ribs in Daniel. They represent different ethnic genetic types. Scripture interprets Scripture.

Anyhow, the phrase 'bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh' is an idiom referring to sharing the same genetics. It's all about DNA at this point. It's super profound what we are being taught.

Strong's Hebrew: 1320. בָּשָׂר (basar) -- Flesh