What do we do with these passages?

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Marano

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Dec 7, 2011
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[h=1]Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

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[h=1]Isaiah 54:16King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.


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Ah, yes, they are confusing.
I believe He can say He creates darkness by a NEGATIVE manner. In other words, He creates darkness by casting someone from His presence, which is to be cast into the outer darkness, where there is no light. The way darkness is made in a room is by turning off or withholding the light. And if the light is turned back on, the darkness scatters. It is the light that overcomes the darkness. The darkness cannot overcome the light if it is present. The only way the darkness can even be there is if the light is removed.

So He can say He creates darkness (even though He is light and there is no darkness in Him) by a NEGATIVE creation, a removal of Himself. Might make sense only to me - haha.
 
What I see

He formed light, darkness was a result.

He makes peace, yet evil results.

He brought the light of the world to men...but some love darkness. Etc.

Don't know about the last scripture.
 
Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


Isaiah 54:16King James Version (KJV)

16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.


I think the definition of the word "evil" is "pain," and the Lord will allow those who behave selfishly to suffer.
 
I think the definition of the word "evil" is "pain," and the Lord will allow those who behave selfishly to suffer.

See also: [h=1]Lamentations 3:37-38King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]37 Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?[/FONT]
 
See also: Lamentations 3:37-38King James Version (KJV)

37 Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?
38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
Yes, the Lord will discipline us - cause us pain - when we give him no other choice. It's for our own good.
 
What are we to do with that?

Humble ourselves and fear God.





















((what, did you think the answer would be to pretend you could judge Him?))
 
Isaiah (the salvation of YHVH) 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

This verse has been badly translated from the Hebrew text. Let's take a close look at two words here, the words "create", and "evil". The verb "create" or "bara" in the Hebrew requires the rendering "to bring about". This word has to be determined in the context of its use.

The word "evil" is never rendered "sin", but "calamity". God brings calamity into our lives as the inevitable consequences of the sin that is committed. God is saying that if you chose to bring sin in your life, you can count on the calamity that will follow. God has not created the sin or evil, but God has created the individuals that have turned to evil. Then when you get out of line, God provides the distress within your life to show you that you are out of line, and by that calamity you know it is time to repent and get back into line.

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

When God called you, He called you when you were an abandoned woman. This is looking forward to the time when the apostacy or great falling away takes place when the driver of the "rapture wagons" are here on earth gathering the people of the earth to himself.

At that time you are not going to be very popular in this world, but the important thing is that you are not ashamed to take a stand and allow the Spirit of God to speak through you. The "wife of youth are the elect, and every last one of them does understand exactly what is taking place and they will have nothing to do with Satan, the "instead of Christ". The church world at this time will be well established in their traditions, and they will sit as a queen, only they will play the role of the harlot with Satan.
 
A literal translation will reveal the truth and just believe it......Did not God create Lucifer knowing full well he would rebel and attempt to usurp the throne...........knowing full well he would be Apollyon, Abaddon A.K.A. the Destroyer?
 
What are we to do with that?

Humble ourselves and fear God.





















((what, did you think the answer would be to pretend you could judge Him?))

I agree, [h=1]Romans 9:20King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?[/FONT]
 
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Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


Isaiah 54:16King James Version (KJV)

16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Everything that happens is a result of God creating all things.

The Bible says Lucifer was created perfect in his ways,until iniquity was found in him.

God created man upright,but they sought out many inventions.

God only created good,angels,and Adam and Eve,but He gave them a choice,and evil is a result of their wrong choices,but God created all things good.

God created angels good,and Adam and Eve good,but they made wrong choices,in that way God created evil,not that he created it outright,but by their actions that were evil which could only happen as a result of God creating them.
 
Let's try a modern (more accurate) translation, shall we?

I form light and create darkness,
I make success and create disaster;
I, Yahweh, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7

Look, I have created the craftsman
who blows on the charcoal fire
and produces a weapon suitable for its task;
and I have created the destroyer to cause havoc.

Isaiah 54:16

Would you look at that? There are no problems to explain. God permits evil and He can create calamity to grow us in Jesus. But He can't create evil, because evil is the absence of God's goodness and truth.
 
Yes, the Lord will discipline us - cause us pain - when we give him no other choice. It's for our own good.

One more for you: [h=1]Amos 3:6King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?[/FONT]
 
Yes, the Lord will discipline us - cause us pain - when we give him no other choice. It's for our own good.

Yes, if we don't humble ourselves before Him, He will humble us by wounding us to fully rely on Him. I just suggest you walk in His will. Doing otherwise is supremely painful.
 
Hi there. If I'm not mistaken, the Hebrew word that gets translated as 'evil' in this verse is רָע(ra') which throughout the Bible takes on many different meanings(e.g. when used as an adjective it could mean bad, disagreeable, unpleasant, low of value, grievous, etc, but when used as a noun[like in Isaiah 45:7], it could mean adversity[which isn't immoral in and of itself, especially if we{or God} are opposing evil], evil[the concept of it], misery, unhappiness, severity, and finally, the antithesis of peace; calamity or misfortune.
Those two words that I emboldened(grievous and severity) I am about to show you.
Proverbs 15:10(NASB)
Grievous punishment is for him who forsakes the way; He who hates reproof will die.
Proverbs 15:10(KJV) Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
In this case, רָע is used to describe the heaviness we perceive when we are punished for our rebelling(in this case forsak[ing] the way)
Ezekiel 14:21(NASB) For thus says the Lord GOD, "How much more when I send My four severe judgments against Jerusalem: sword, famine, wild beasts and plague to cut off man and beast from it!
Ezekiel 14:21(KJV) For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?
Here, רָע is being translated as severe when describing God's punishment for idolatry(this is understood when we read Ezekiel 14 from the beginning)
Finally, in this verse's case,
רָע is best understood as calamity or misfortune and maybe adversity(like I said earlier, adversity, in and of itself, is not morally wrong since we read that God opposes the wicked and humbles the proud for right reasons).
So now, how should Isaiah 45:7 be interpreted? Let's begin at verse 1 "Thus says the Lord to Cyrus His anointed..."
Isaiah is assumed to have lived around 700 BC, the Cyrus that God is speaking about here is the same Cyrus who would allow the Jews to return to Jerusalem with Zerubbabel(we read this in Ezra 1-6). This happened in the late 6th century BC, more than a century after Isaiah 45.
So we are dealing with a prophecy here.
Now, vrs 2 and 3 describe what God will do for Cyrus(He will ensure Cyrus' Persian Empire is successful)
Verse 4 tells us why God is doing this(so that the Jews who were in exile under Cyrus could return to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple)
Verses 5 and 6, God further explains His purpose for bringing Cyrus to power(so that the world may be in awe of God and glorify Him)
And finally verse 7, God pretty much answers the question that is raised by the preceding 6 verses(i.e. "How can You accomplish this?"). God is Sovereign and in control over all of Creation. If His will is to redeem His people from exile, even though they were warned of this before it happened, then He will do everything within His power and according to Nature to accomplish this feat.
And because God is Holy(you quoted Lamentations 3:37,38 which is good because it tells us how God is incapable of committing any immoral act. Because of His nature, everything He does is good) we can be certain that in Isaiah 45:7(KJV), evil is meant to be understood as the opposite of peace(adversity, calamity, and misfortune, which are all different ways of God judging the wicked, much like a good earthly judge punishing criminals for their crimes). To further solidify this conclusion, look at how Isaiah 45:7 is structured. It deals with opposites. Light and Darkness. Peace and Evil(misfortune). It would be as if God said "I have created the heavens and the earth, the sun and the moon, man and woman, Jew and Gentile, etc).
I hope that helps.

Edit: By the way, this is my first post so sorry for the inconsistencies with the font and size. I didn't know what was happening when I was typing. All I knew was, once I inserted the Hebrew letters, the text just changed all of a sudden.

 
[h=1]Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]7 [/B][/FONT]I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

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[h=1]Isaiah 54:16King James Version (KJV)[/h][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.


[/FONT]

yes...
God does bring evil into the world

by creating humans who know good and evil.
 
Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.


Isaiah 54:16King James Version (KJV)

16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.


God made everything including evil. He also use evil for his purposes... Satan is his servant.
 
Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

It is not saying that God creates evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster or calamity. Contextually the verse is speaking of natural phenomena and human distress, not moral evil.
 
"He will do everything within His power and according to Nature to accomplish this feat."
I meant to say 'according to His Nature'
 
Here is one person's commentary on Isaiah 45:7

Darkness is the absence of light. The absence of light existed before God created light (Genesis 1:2). So, God didn’t really “create” darkness. But God forms the light and defines anything other than light as darkness. Likewise, the Lord doesn’t create evil, but establishes peace and calls anything else evil.

Vine’s Expository Dictionary says that the Hebrew word “RA’,” which was translated “evil” in this verse, “refers to that which is ‘bad’ or ‘evil,’ in a wide variety of applications.”

Vine’s usage note on this word in this verse says, “In Isaiah 45:7 Yahweh describes His actions by saying, ’...I make peace, and create evil [RA’]...’; moral ‘evil’ is not intended in this context, but rather the antithesis of SHALOM (‘peace; welfare; well-being’). The whole verse affirms that as absolute Sovereign, the Lord creates a universe governed by a moral order. Calamity and misfortune will surely ensue from the wickedness of ungodly men.”

Therefore, this verse is saying that God creates moral order and defines anything that doesn’t conform to that morality as evil. Only in that sense does He create evil. He determines or defines what evil is. This is not saying the Lord originates or promotes evil.

The Scriptures do say the Lord sent evil angels among people (Psalms 78:49). This is in reference to the death angel passing among the Egyptians and killing all the firstborn (Exodus 12:29-30). This angel wasn’t evil in the sense that it was demonic, but it was evil in the sense that it brought evil or punishment upon the Egyptians.

The American Heritage Dictionary says the word “evil” means not only “morally bad or wrong; wicked,” but it also means “harmful, injurious.” The death angel and other angels who brought the plagues on Egypt were “evil” in the sense that they were harmful to the Egyptians.

This is the way “the evil spirit from the LORD” (1 Samuel 16:14-16) was upon Saul. This wasn’t a demonic spirit but a godly angelic spirit that was sent for punishment upon Saul. It was God’s judgment upon Saul. Things like that will not happen to us as New Testament believers. All of our judgment has been placed on Jesus (see my note at John 12:32).

Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.