What does the Law REALLY say?

[Elin]

The non-responsive part is the fact that you did not read the post. Notice the bolded verse Deut 23:13.

Previously addressed.

And yes, I did not read the Deut quote at the time.

 

[Elin]

Your understanding of Levitical Law is amazingly underdeveloped.
Do you suppose the Laws in the Pentateuch are not Levitical Laws and are not to be carried out by Levites unless they are found in one book, Leviticus?

The Levitical laws are the ceremonial laws of Leviticus.

The entire Mosiac law was given on the basis of the Levitical priesthood.

 

[Elin]

If this is a ceremonial Law picturing sin, where is the sacrifice that would have to be involved? There is none mentioned. It is a cleanliness and health Law.

A picture of spiritual defilement is not spiritual defilement itself,
as a picture of Christ's sacrifice in the OT sacrificial system is not the sacrifice of Christ itself.

But as a picture of spiritual defilement, ceremonial defilement was to be purified/cleansed,
to teach the nature of and remedy for the spiritual defilement of sin.

It is not a physical cleanliness and health law, but a law picturing and teaching the nature of
and remedy for spiritual cleanliness and health.

 

[KohenMatt]

I don't speculate about what is not written.

So you speculate that the rule for human waste only applies to a military camp even though it doesn't say that, but you won't speculate what the logical outcome of that is. Interesting.

That's fine. This conversation doesn't really interest me anymore and there doesn't appear to be much reasoning with you.

Next topic.....

 

[Dan_473]

I only put as much effort into as I reasonably can. I'm not going to ask every single woman I come close if they're having their period. I'm not going to ask every woman I sit next to when they menstruated last. I'm not going to move away from the people God has called me to minister to just so I don't run the risk of sitting next to someone who has been bleeding.

well... if it's important to God that you follow that rule, why would he call you to live in a non observant community, where a person can't really keep it?

 

[john832]

well... if it's important to God that you follow that rule, why would he call you to live in a non observant community, where a person can't really keep it?

Please remember it is not a matter of salvation, it is a cleanliness/health Law.

The only way it becomes a salvation issue is if one refuses out of a bad attitude...

"You are not going to tell me what to do, God. I'll do whatever I want."

At this point, it is not the cleanliness/health Law that is at issue, it is a rebellious, carnal attitude that is spiteful toward God.

 

[Dan_473]

Following God doesn't mean keeping a set of rules strictly for the purpose of keeping those rules. Following God means following His Spirit. The Levitical priests and Jesus came in contact with the unclean on a daily basis, yet they were never told to move away. Israel was given the means to be cleansed from any impurity. We are offered those same instructions through the Law as well as Jesus' example.

"Following God doesn't mean keeping a set of rules strictly for the purpose of keeping those rules. Following God means following His Spirit." ...OK, I'm confused again... would the spirit tell a person not to keep those rules?... The Levitical priests and Jesus lived in an observant society... also, Jesus had some very interesting interpretations or alterations of the law... I think...

 

[john832]

A picture of spiritual defilement is not spiritual defilement itself,
as a picture of Christ's sacrifice in the OT sacrificial system is not the sacrifice of Christ itself.

But as a picture of spiritual defilement, ceremonial defilement was to be purified/cleansed,
to teach the nature of and remedy for the spiritual defilement of sin.

It is not a physical cleanliness and health law, but a law picturing and teaching the nature of
and remedy for spiritual cleanliness and health.

And the remedy for spiritual cleanliness does not include a sacrifice?

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

What you are saying is unscriptural, you are saying that there is remission without shedding of blood. The truth is that it is cleanliness/health Law.

 

[KohenMatt]

well... if it's important to God that you follow that rule, why would he call you to live in a non observant community, where a person can't really keep it?

"Following God doesn't mean keeping a set of rules strictly for the purpose of keeping those rules. Following God means following His Spirit." ...OK, I'm confused again... would the spirit tell a person not to keep those rules?... The Levitical priests and Jesus lived in an observant society... also, Jesus had some very interesting interpretations or alterations of the law... I think...

What do you think God's heart is? What do you think the Holy Spirit would say?
Is better to isolate yourself from everyone else just so you avoid the possibility of becoming unclean?
Or is it better to do the best you can, trust God through His cleansing of Jesus' sacrifice, and minister to the lost?

Yes, the Levitical Priests lived in a strictly observant society, but they still came in contact with realms of unclean. What cleansing did God offer them?

No, Jesus did not live in a strictly observant society. What manner of cleansing did Jesus have, and offer to others?

Yes, He had interesting interpretations of the Law and expanded on them.
No, He did not alter them.

 

[Elin]

And the remedy for spiritual cleanliness does not include a sacrifice?

The remedy for spiritual cleanness in the believer is confession, which purifies.

There is more than one aspect to dealing with sin.

Different aspects were pictured differently, as in the sacrifices and the purification ceremonies.

 

[john832]

The remedy for spiritual cleanness in the believer is confession, which purifies.

There is more than one aspect to dealing with sin.

Different aspects were pictured differently, as in the sacrifices and the purification ceremonies.

Silly me, I thought it was the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

 

[Dan_473]

Just for fun let's read Lev 15:22

Lev 15:22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.

It doesn't say cast into the Lake of Fire, it says the person who does this washes himself and will be unclean until evening. So you don't go around eating finger food or shaking hands or coming in contact with others until you bathe and a period of time passes.

It is a cleanliness Law that if practiced would help prevent disease and sickness.

Now this society will tell you that is not necessary. Remember this, these same people think nothing of dumping sewage in their drinking water. Where does the effluent from sewer plants go?

What does God say?

Deu 23:13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

Composting human waste would be a better solution than flushing it into the local river so that the next town or city downstream can use it for drinking and cooking.

"It doesn't say cast into the Lake of Fire, it says the person who does this washes himself and will be unclean until evening." ... right, and what it seems to me, was that the people I talked to didn't really seem to have much zeal about it... kind of, well, when I get home tonight, I'll take a shower and change my clothes like I normally do... wash the clothes on the weekend, no big deal...

 

[Dan_473]

Just for fun let's read Lev 15:22

Lev 15:22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.

It doesn't say cast into the Lake of Fire, it says the person who does this washes himself and will be unclean until evening. So you don't go around eating finger food or shaking hands or coming in contact with others until you bathe and a period of time passes.

It is a cleanliness Law that if practiced would help prevent disease and sickness.

Now this society will tell you that is not necessary. Remember this, these same people think nothing of dumping sewage in their drinking water. Where does the effluent from sewer plants go?

What does God say?

Deu 23:13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

Composting human waste would be a better solution than flushing it into the local river so that the next town or city downstream can use it for drinking and cooking.

i like the deut verses... in v.12,

Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad...

I think this will be very difficult to practice if you live in a usa city... not hard if you live in a community of like minded folks, though... everyone carrying their paddles around...

 

[Elin]

The remedy for spiritual cleanness in the believer is confession, which purifies.

There is more than one aspect to dealing with sin.

Different aspects were pictured differently, as in the sacrifices and the purification ceremonies.

Silly me, I thought it was the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Yes, you should know 1Jn 1:9.

 

[JaumeJ]

When I shared the Word while in the Rocy Mountains I would make my camp well away from public camping in the forest. It was natural for me to dig an out of the way trench for personal use, and to cover my business after. Why would anyone want to leave their waste exposed in a pristine area? Anyone who would is thoughtless to all that has been given to man and beast in this age. I did now the law of the soldiers of Israel to do this, but this was not my motive for doing it; it was natural. The laws do become our nature, but it is good to know them and learn them and practice them all in the light of the teaching of Jesus Christ. They do all fit well in the laws of love, but many think they are above studying the laws.. It is not wrong to know to teach others good conduct.

 

[Elin]

When I shared the Word while in the Rocy Mountains I would make my camp well away from public camping in the forest.
It was natural for me to dig an out of the way trench for personal use, and to cover my business after.

Yeah, Boy Scouts do that too on their camp outs.

 

[Dan_473]

There are none in Leviticus.

The one in Deuteronomy is for the military camp, not for everyone.

looks like a reasonable interpretation to me... but, if a person does believe it applies to everyone, that much harder to follow in these modern times...

 

[john832]

looks like a reasonable interpretation to me... but, if a person does believe it applies to everyone, that much harder to follow in these modern times...

No, it is not a military camp...

Num 5:3 Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.

Num 12:15 And Miriam was shut out from the camp seven days: and the people journeyed not till Miriam was brought in again.

Miriam was not in the army. When the term camp is used in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy it is referring to Israel in the sense that they were camping. They were not in permanent dwellings but rather moved around as Christ led them.

Elin is grasping at straws here to defend a false doctrine ultimately based on the notion that the Law of Moses is not the Law of God and can simply be dismissed. But you are free to believe whatever you wish.

 

[john832]

looks like a reasonable interpretation to me... but, if a person does believe it applies to everyone, that much harder to follow in these modern times...

Because this society is not based on following God or His ways. It is based on following the Devil.

 

[Dan_473]

Please remember it is not a matter of salvation, it is a cleanliness/health Law.

The only way it becomes a salvation issue is if one refuses out of a bad attitude...

"You are not going to tell me what to do, God. I'll do whatever I want."

At this point, it is not the cleanliness/health Law that is at issue, it is a rebellious, carnal attitude that is spiteful toward God.

well... i don't think the law has headings in it that say Cleanliness/health Laws, but I think I agree with the attitude part... so, if a person feels that God wants them to keep all of the laws they possibly can, I'm interested in talking about how much effort they put into it...