What would we believe in regarding the Gospel of Christ if Paul's writings were not part of the Bible?

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ThyKingdomComeSoon

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2023
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#81
One would not have understanding of the cross if not for the Lord revealing the mystery to Paul. The Lord and his disciples preached to the Jews concerning the earthly kingdom promised to them.
Isaiah in the O.T announced the death of Christ in detail way before Paul!
 

ThyKingdomComeSoon

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2023
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#82
Luke 18:
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
before his death maybe but after certainly. are you saying the 12 were stupid men?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
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#83
before his death maybe but after certainly. are you saying the 12 were stupid men?
I‘m saying the cross was a mystery until after it happened because the truth was hid by God. The Jews were not looking for a humble servant who would die for them, but a conquering Messiah to deliver them from their enemies and restore their kingdom as God has promised.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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#84
Hello MaryM,

What did Paul say they was not already done by the messiah and explained already by scriptures? Did Paul add anything that was confirmed by scripture?

Cheers.
Respectfully, @ThyKingdomComeSoon, it seems as if you’re questioning whether or not Paul should even have had a ministry. But, you see, it doesn’t even matter what you and I think. It was GOD who called Paul to preach. We need to keep in mind that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. God had a reason for choosing Paul.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,783
624
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#85
So were running with something that is not true. Who would want to even imaging this? This thought never came from God since it was His will to share this mystery with Paul, to us. So what would it be like not doing Gods will
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
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#86
The apocrypha was in the Bible, then much later removed. This was according to a group of men. As for the Bible I believe, it is penned only by the Prophets and the Apstles. There are Twelve nnames of the Twelve Aposstles on the Twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem. The twelfth Apostle replacing Judas is Mattias as foretold to be in the Psalms, chosen by God according to the leaving it in His Hand by lot.

There are not thirteen foundations of the New Jerusalem. Paul well may have been sent out, but he is not one of the Twelve no matter how many agree together he is. Keep this always in mind.

Until God actually removes Paul's writing from the Bible Himself, I'm going to keep learning from them. Also Peter, one of the Twelve, already saw Paul's writing as Scripture as well. It's like God wanted Peter to verify that Paul is legit because He knew there would be some questionable people trying to dismiss what He wants to teach through Paul.

2 Peter 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Peter himself had already viewed Paul's writings as part of Scripture.

So yeah, I'm not going to listen to you or your friend. I don't know your voice...

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me....


🛳️
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,432
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#87
Until God actually removes Paul's writing from the Bible Himself, I'm going to keep learning from them. Also Peter, one of the Twelve, already saw Paul's writing as Scripture as well. It's like God wanted Peter to verify that Paul is legit because He knew there would be some questionable people trying to dismiss what He wants to teach through Paul.

2 Peter 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Peter himself had already viewed Paul's writings as part of Scripture.

So yeah, I'm not going to listen to you or your friend. I don't know your voice...

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me....


🛳️
Have I said Paul is not a teacher of the Word? Why play the martyr? I have only stressed the importance of going to the words of Jesus Yeshua. I know I do read Paul's writings and what he has referred to as "my gospel," but when I believe the words of Jesus Yeshua are most complete, I cannot follow the crowd, no, I must follow my Holy Shepherd, Jesus Yeshua.

Please do not seek error in others, but be led by the Holy Spirit. May God continually bless you, amen.
 

glf

Active member
Mar 18, 2023
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#88
If we try to imagine not knowing any of Paul's writings, remove them from our memory, what would it truly change in our understanding of scripture?
Would we being following the commandments, the law as Jesus says?
Mat 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.
Mat 5:18 For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Blessings
Why would we neglect a portion of scripture for any reason?
Peter is the one person that know heard from the Father directly by Jesus' own praise, when he said to Peter, "Blessed art thou, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. Thus peter is the one person whom we can be sure of, that heard directly from the Lord for himself.
And of Paul, he tells us in 2 Pet3: 15, 16 "And account that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him has written unto you; as also in all of his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do to other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
 

ThyKingdomComeSoon

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2023
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#89
Respectfully, @ThyKingdomComeSoon, it seems as if you’re questioning whether or not Paul should even have had a ministry. But, you see, it doesn’t even matter what you and I think. It was GOD who called Paul to preach. We need to keep in mind that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. God had a reason for choosing Paul.
No I am not questioning and i said this already, I was hoping people would not think this but in every thread talking about Jesus these comments pop up unfortunately. Also people do nit real most the most of the posts and forger the O.P. and deviate from it
I explained everything using scripture only. the problem is not the bible but the wrong interpretation people give of it.
I do this because people forget Christ's teachings which is paramount, Jesus Is the Key, the central point in the bible not just his death and what it accomplished but all of what he said. As for preaching, GOD also sent his twelve apostles to preach Jesus's Gospel to all the world, including the gentiles.

Blessings.
 

ThyKingdomComeSoon

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2023
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#90
Why would we neglect a portion of scripture for any reason?
Peter is the one person that know heard from the Father directly by Jesus' own praise, when he said to Peter, "Blessed art thou, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. Thus peter is the one person whom we can be sure of, that heard directly from the Lord for himself.
And of Paul, he tells us in 2 Pet3: 15, 16 "And account that the long suffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him has written unto you; as also in all of his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do to other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
First, all of the 12 heard from the lord Jesus and his father as they are ONE! second 2 peter 3 says exactly what I say here Paul writings are difficult to understand, many do not understand properly and it leads to Lawlesness they think the commandments are abolished but they are not.

Peace.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,163
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#91
There is dispute concerning the authorship of the letter to the Hebrews, which isn't a letter to any particular city as much as it is to a nation.

An Unshakable Kingdom
(Exodus 20:18–21; Deuteronomy 5:22–33)

18For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and thatg is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom, and storm; 19to a trumpet blast or to a voice that made its hearers beg that no further word be spoken. 20For they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned.”h 21The sight was so terrifying that even Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”i

22Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels 23in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Abel's blood spoke justice, but Jesus' speaks justice and mercy.
 

ThyKingdomComeSoon

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2023
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#92
Respectfully, @ThyKingdomComeSoon, it seems as if you’re questioning whether or not Paul should even have had a ministry. But, you see, it doesn’t even matter what you and I think. It was GOD who called Paul to preach. We need to keep in mind that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. God had a reason for choosing Paul.
Hi selahsays sorry for the myriad of mistakes, I do need glasses and I have fat fingers, here it is again;

No I am not questioning Paul and I said this already, I was hoping people would not think this but in every thread talking about Jesus these comments pop up unfortunately. Also people do not read most of the posts of this thread and forget the O.P. and deviate from it.
I explained everything using scripture only. the problem is not the bible but the wrong interpretation people give of it.
I do this because people forget Christ's teachings which is paramount, Jesus Is the Key, the central point in the bible not just his death and what it accomplished but all of what he said. As for preaching, GOD also sent his twelve apostles to preach Jesus's Gospel to all the world, including the gentiles.

Blessings.
 

ThyKingdomComeSoon

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2023
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596
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#93
So were running with something that is not true. Who would want to even imaging this? This thought never came from God since it was His will to share this mystery with Paul, to us. So what would it be like not doing Gods will
Did you even read the O.P or do you base what you say on post 84? Your answer in short, is in posts 90 and 92.

Blessings.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#94
Hi selahsays sorry for the myriad of mistakes, I do need glasses and I have fat fingers, here it is again;

No I am not questioning Paul and I said this already, I was hoping people would not think this but in every thread talking about Jesus these comments pop up unfortunately. Also people do not read most of the posts of this thread and forget the O.P. and deviate from it.
I explained everything using scripture only. the problem is not the bible but the wrong interpretation people give of it.
I do this because people forget Christ's teachings which is paramount, Jesus Is the Key, the central point in the bible not just his death and what it accomplished but all of what he said. As for preaching, GOD also sent his twelve apostles to preach Jesus's Gospel to all the world, including the gentiles.

Blessings.
When Paul uses the term...my gospel...he isn't distinguishing the gospel from the teaching of Jesus, but from other false gospels circulating at the time. Until you realize that all scripture is equally authoritative because its source is the same...the Holy Spirit...you will disregard some scripture and favor others. Rather than harmonizing scripture, you actually take away from the words of the book. This is warned against in the book of Revelation.
I share this with you not because of some moral superiority, but out of genuine concern.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#95
Personally I do not see that the explanations given by Paul adds to what Christ already had said and did for us. To me What Jesus wrote and explained says it all in a clear way.
Did not Jesus explained in detail the commandments and even magnified the law? ( Matthew 5 )
why would GOD change his mind? is he not unchanging?
Also what does it mean to believe in Jesus, to me it means to follow his teachings and the commandments, he did teach them, said they would not pass away, Am I wrong to follow the teachings of Jesus and follow the commandments?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

GOD Said in Mat 3:17 ; And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Am I wrong to follow the teachings of Jesus and follow the commandments?

Blessings
The apostles expounded upon and revealed more ofnthey Jesus was saying

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:

and he will shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the apostles including Paul’s writings contain much more of the nuisances and details of what Jesus was saying in the gospel the church doctrine is Jesus and his apostles teachings

Jesus words

“Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
‭‭John‬ ‭12:34-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A sample of pauls words discussing that concept of the children of light and what it means tangibly

“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:8-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:5-6, 8-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus taught this concept

“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a Paul elaborating to the church

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭

Peter also elaborates on the same things Jesus taught adding more revelation

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s when we hear Jesus and then begin to hear his apostles when things open up and become clear each adds aspects to the same beautiful picture
 

ThyKingdomComeSoon

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2023
974
596
93
#96
The apostles expounded upon and revealed more ofnthey Jesus was saying

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:

and he will shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the apostles including Paul’s writings contain much more of the nuisances and details of what Jesus was saying in the gospel the church doctrine is Jesus and his apostles teachings

Jesus words

“Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
‭‭John‬ ‭12:34-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

A sample of pauls words discussing that concept of the children of light and what it means tangibly

“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:8-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:5-6, 8-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus taught this concept

“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a Paul elaborating to the church

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭

Peter also elaborates on the same things Jesus taught adding more revelation

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s when we hear Jesus and then begin to hear his apostles when things open up and become clear each adds aspects to the same beautiful picture
yes, what you quoted from John‬ ‭16:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬ is very very important indeed;

Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Jhn 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

I rely very much so on what the Holy Spirit allows me to understand and of course the words of his apostles also.

Blessings.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,179
5,727
113
#97
yes, what you quoted from John‬ ‭16:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬ is very very important indeed;

Jhn 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jhn 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Jhn 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

I rely very much so on what the Holy Spirit allows me to understand and of course the words of his apostles also.

Blessings.
Indeed another good source of the holy spirits words is the Old Testament prophets

“We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:19-21‬ ‭

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”( when Jesus had died and rose and sent his spirit )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19-21, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The biblical structure is to hear the witness of the law and prophets of Christ that was going to come and then hear the witness of Jesus apostles in tbe nt of Christ who had come and will return again
 

glf

Active member
Mar 18, 2023
275
120
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#98
First, all of the 12 heard from the lord Jesus and his father as they are ONE! second 2 peter 3 says exactly what I say here Paul writings are difficult to understand, many do not understand properly and it leads to Lawlesness they think the commandments are abolished but they are not.
PYeace.
Did Paul inspire what he wrote or was it the Holy Spirit? Is your mind and understanding better than the Lord's?
Perhaps, the Holy Spirit should have obtained your council and regarding to how he should speak life as he instructs the faithful, since he's leading us into lawlessness, inadvertently.

The law of the Spirit of life has transformed the law of sin and death, as the Lord puts his commandments directly into our hearts and minds. So that, no longer is adultery alone a sin, but now when we're lusting after another we're committing adultery in our hearts; no longer are we only commanded not to commit murder alone, but when we hate our brother, we are now committing murder in our hearts; and no longer do we practice: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and a life for a life, but instead we're to turn our cheeks seventy times seven, and to pray for those who curse us, and to do good unto those who despitefully use us.

I guess that this lawlessness, that the Holy Spirit is perpetrating upon the body of Christ by using our beloved brother Paul to share the Lord's truth, is just an error in judgement by the Holy Spirit.
It's Paul who told us via the Spirit, "The goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith." God forbid, let's let God be true and every man a liar. If any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.

I'm sorry if I've offended you!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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I do this because people forget Christ's teachings which is paramount...
Of course Christ's teachings are paramount, but they DO NOT contradict the Gospel.

However. you are substituting obedience to God and Christ's commandments for obedience to the Gospel (repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ). Which means that you have to address this issue. Even perfect obedience to all the commandments will not save you. And let's face it. You will be far from perfect.