When are we saved ?

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OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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God told Abraham that his faith in (God) Him was accounted to him as righteousness

possibly your fog over this might clear a little if you comprehend that salvation is faith based

however you seem to be stuck on no one is saved unless elected, in other words no choice, but you have also said we do choose, so the merry go round is your understanding

I read the story of Abraham. I read he was accounted righteous by God because of his faith (belief) in God

you confuse/conflate/mashup the two testaments. you can quote me
Faith based? I thought salvation was based on what Christ has done.

Salvation is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.

If it is based on our faith, that you say comes from ourselves, that contradicts the “ not of ourselves” part
 

OIC1965

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God told Abraham that his faith in (God) Him was accounted to him as righteousness

possibly your fog over this might clear a little if you comprehend that salvation is faith based

however you seem to be stuck on no one is saved unless elected, in other words no choice, but you have also said we do choose, so the merry go round is your understanding

I read the story of Abraham. I read he was accounted righteous by God because of his faith (belief) in God

you confuse/conflate/mashup the two testaments. you can quote me
If salvation is faith based, that means the foundation ( basis) of your salvation is your faith . That is a very precarious foundation!!

We both believe in eternal security. By your and Eleven’s logic, that makes us Calvinists.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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I think he copy/pastes things to agree or make it look like he is not in agreement with Calvinism, then, he comes up with these ideas
from some parallel universe and starts with the cloned Calvinistic doctrine

he does not have to call himself a follower of Calvin to share either all or some of the beliefs

he certainly believes we do not have a choice

but he is not a Calvinist. just believes like one. other people here have said the same but believed the doctrine

anyway, take him at his word. he is not a Calvinist; he just believes like one



not Calvinistic at all. not at all :censored:

we are not all nuts here. and now we have 2 spirits of God. the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. you can't make this stuff up

anyway, he is the one who has to live with it
If you are going to quote me, quote me correctly. I did not say that there were two different Holy Spirits. I said that the one Holy Spirit has two different functions. Same as the Godhead has three different functions, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, The one Holy Spirit has two different functions, The quickening Spirit, and the revelator Spirit which is the Holy Ghost, the comforter.

The Holy Spirit, the quickening Spirit, has been quickening God's people, by his indwelling them, in the old testament, as well as people in the new testament, sense day one. The Holy Ghost, the revelator, and comforter, began his work after Christ ascended.
 

OIC1965

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If you are going to quote me, quote me correctly. I did not say that there were two different Holy Spirits. I said that the one Holy Spirit has two different functions. Same as the Godhead has three different functions, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, The one Holy Spirit has two different functions, The quickening Spirit, and the revelator Spirit which is the Holy Ghost, the comforter.

The Holy Spirit, the quickening Spirit, has been quickening God's people, by his indwelling them, in the old testament, as well as people in the new testament, sense day one. The Holy Ghost, the revelator, and comforter, began his work after Christ ascended.
Sorry. I don’t know how to copy or paste on this site using my phone. So you think wrong.
 

ForestGreenCook

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I'm glad you realize that faith has no intrinsic value BY OR OF ITSELF. I suspected that there were those present who think that faith DOES have intrinsic value OF OR BY ITSELF, which is why I posted that. And the fact that people are pushing back against that post seems to confirm it.

I do believe faith is a necessary condition for salvation, as I have stated.

As far as the video, I bet the maker of the video believes the same thing I do about election. I will demonstrate it once I confirm it. In a very short time of listening to it already, I heard some indicators that he does hold a similar position to mine. Ill get back to you on that.
Can you expound on your statement, "I do believe faith is a necessary condition for salvation", with scripture?
 

ForestGreenCook

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Sorry. I don’t know how to copy or paste on this site using my phone. So you think wrong.
Sorry, OIC1956, Leanna was accusing you of saying that there were two Holy Ghosts, and I was responding to her, not you.
 

OIC1965

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Eph 2:9, I believe that the faith in this verse is not man's faith, but the faith of Jesus. To my thinking, this verse harmonizes with Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.

By man's knowledge, and understanding of this, man's faith is counted unto him for righteousness.
The KJV translates Galatians 2:16 “faith of Christ” because the noun is in the genetive case, but the genetive case is not always indicating “ possession”. It has other uses.

The verb faith also can be translated faithfulness. Justified by the faithfulness of Christ. Some render it this way

I prefer the reading faith in Christ because of the latter part of the sentence. I think it is expressing Christ as the object of faith
 

OIC1965

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Sorry, OIC1956, Leanna was accusing you of saying that there were two Holy Ghosts, and I was responding to her, not you.
I don’t think you replied to me at all on that, so no need to apologize

I would rethink that though, because Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost mean the same thing. “Ghost” is from the Germanic form of spirit. (Geist)
 

OIC1965

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ForestGreenCook

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The moment you decide to allow Romans 10:9 to be truly in your heart is when you are saved
Saved, according to Strong's concordance, means "delivered". Regenerated children of God are delivered many times as they sojourn here in this world, that has nothing to do with eternal deliverance. A newly born babe in Christ feeds upon the milk of the word, as he is taught, and gradually grows to maturity. There is a deliverance (salvation) from his lack of knowledge of the gospel, upon learning of the gospel.

Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little.
 

ForestGreenCook

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I don’t think you replied to me at all on that, so no need to apologize

I would rethink that though, because Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost mean the same thing. “Ghost” is from the Germanic form of spirit. (Geist)
I am not saying that they are two different Spirits, I am saying that the one Holy Spirit has two different functions. The quickening Spirit has been quickening God's elect from day one in the old testament, as well as, in the new testament. The revelator Spirit, which is just another function of the Holy Spirit, began after Christ ascended. All of God's elect children are born again, quickened, in the same manner from day one.
 

OIC1965

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I didn't say it has value. Its the prerequisite. Rom 5
¶Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2By whom also we have access by

I think this is a useful video on the word occurrence on 'election '.
I’m early into the video, about 20 minutes in, and already hears a critical mistake. He said Calvinists teach that God arbitrarily chose people.

Calvinists DO NOT believe in arbitrary election. And Arminians CERTAINLY DONT believe in arbitrary election.

How many strikes should I allow? Continuing the video now.
 

OIC1965

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I am not saying that they are two different Spirits, I am saying that the one Holy Spirit has two different functions. The quickening Spirit has been quickening God's elect from day one in the old testament, as well as, in the new testament. The revelator Spirit, which is just another function of the Holy Spirit, began after Christ ascended. All of God's elect children are born again, quickened, in the same manner from day one.
Thank you for clarifying your position. I would just say that the terms Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost do not indicate differences in function. Just different words used in translation

Maybe people misunderstood you or maybe not. I’d have to go back to see what you said.
 

OIC1965

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I am not saying that they are two different Spirits, I am saying that the one Holy Spirit has two different functions. The quickening Spirit has been quickening God's elect from day one in the old testament, as well as, in the new testament. The revelator Spirit, which is just another function of the Holy Spirit, began after Christ ascended. All of God's elect children are born again, quickened, in the same manner from day one.
Ps. I must have clicked the wrong post, because my reply was not intended for you. I was replying to Lena, but must have clicked your response to her post, and not her post

I think it’s very possible that she misunderstood your words...
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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FGC says they are separate entities with different functions.

The reality is that among modern translations, only the KJV uses the term "Holy Ghost."

Most would likely affirm that "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" refer to the Third Person of the Trinity.
Hi Magenta, I will let it pass the Bible Version issue but not to ignore they were used in the KJV interchangeably as in the following:

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
 

OIC1965

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I am trying to think of words to describe the realization that someone thinks ghost and spirit indicates 2 different beings

this really opens up a new chapter in bizarre understandings
Fortunately, he has explained that he did not mean two beings, and in the original post, he said he was referring to functions not being. Now I don’t agree with his distinguishing the meaning of The roles of Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost, but your claim that he said they were two seperate beings is mistaken.

I could say that Jesus existed as the unbegotten LOGOS before time and the Son of Man in time, but that’s not two different persons, that is different titles for different roles for the same person

I do not agree with the way Forest makes a distinction in meaning between Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit, but He did not say anything about seperate beings.
 

OIC1965

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Hi Magenta, I will let it pass the Bible Version issue but not to ignore they were used in the KJV interchangeably as in the following:

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
Yes the two phrases refer to the same thing. It’s merely a different word chosen in translation. They are the same words in the original.
 

OIC1965

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I’m early into the video, about 20 minutes in, and already hears a critical mistake. He said Calvinists teach that God arbitrarily chose people.

Calvinists DO NOT believe in arbitrary election. And Arminians CERTAINLY DONT believe in arbitrary election.

How many strikes should I allow? Continuing the video now.

Almost 22 minutes in. He mentioned the future aspect of salvation mentioned in 1 Peter 1:8-9. Present AND future aspects of salvation just as there are present and future aspects of adoption

He and I agree on the past, present, and future aspects of salvation. Adoption is similar