WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL" )

[Cobus]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Laodicea, LT. That meeting NEVER happened.

Let us assume Cobus wrote a whole book on things I do not understand and things I know off only by hearing of the word of others, THAT ALSO KNOW NOTHING. And I write thi book about God and what God does and HOW He does it. Oh there are MANY mistakes in the book, but I did not even know the mistakes I made.

Now I meet with God FACE TO FACE.. and NOW I see what God is like and how He operates, and it COMPLETELY different than what I said in my book. NOw I write in the SAME book.... OH LORD, I ABHORE MYSELF.... Do you know what I am doing? I am withdrawing me from EVERYTHING I wrote before this moment where I realized God is WAY different than what I perceived.

And not only that I will even go as far as to say... I wrote RUBBISH. I wrote of things too wonderful for me to understand, and things I KNEW not I uttered. PLEASE LORD I REPENT! ....


Do you think I want you to believe what I wrote when I KNEW NOT the things I wrote? NO! That is why I ABHORE myself. I WITHDRAW all I said. And Job did the same.... Look here... Job42:5 and 6.... I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

And i agree with pastac there is many things said here that is ASSUMPTIONS without Biblical proof.

 

[The_highwayman]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Ok for all you super spiritual ones that suggest God cannot ever be in the presence of Satan and suggest Satan is not allowed near God Check out the story in 1 Kings 22. I am posting part of the verses that show a few things that put the foolishness that says God cannot have Satan or other evil spirits around him and proves that Satan had access to God during the story of Job.

I am not going to take the time to explain all of the story in 1 Kings 22, everyone in this tread should read the complete chapter to understand why the true Prophet of God, Micaiah, said what he did in the verses below:

[SUP]19 [/SUP]And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

The Prophet saw the Lord where?

Who was near the Lord's throne?

Where was the Lord?



[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

Who is the Lord consulting here?


[SUP]21 [/SUP]And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.

What came before the Lord?


[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Who is the Lord conversing with and what did the spirit say he would become? who is the Father of Lies in the Bible?
who was a liar from the very beginning?


[SUP]23 [/SUP]Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Please read all of 1 Kings 22 and see for yourselves. When we begin to go against what the Word tells us and disregard Biblical truths we end up in a ditch, like several I see have and sadly do not even see it.

Satan never caused any one to SIN, you SIN because you chose to SIN. James 1.12-17 tells you all about the SIN cycle and how SIN manifests.

God's sovereignty outweighs SATAN...period! for some of you to suggest and state as a Biblical truth that SATAN could not come before God or that GOD could not ave access around him, are actually stating God's sovereignty is a lie.

Enough of this foolishness, study to show to show yourselves approved and stop posting falsehoods.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

I will ask you once again and in reference to EZE 28, how a human, could have instruments created in their own body.

Who said the humans in the prophecies of Ezekiel 28 was born with instruments inside of them? Lol I can see where such a thing sounds absurd no doubt. Lol, did make me kinda laugh though, that brings a whole knew meaning to the phrase "internal organs" lol.


Back to seriousness though. I believe the king of Tyrus' workmanship of his tabrets and pipes was prepared inside him in the day he was created according to Ezekiel 28.

To use something of a modern parable, one could say of a talented musician he was born to play guitar. Or perhaps of a famous guitar maker that he was born with a workmanship of crafting guitars. Going by that standard it would seem to me that the King of Tyre was made wealthy and rich by God and should not have provoked the Lord to anger by defiling sanctuaries with iniquities. Seems greed especially is a factor in this prophecy considerring the "Traffick of iniquities," the multitude of merchandise causing violence, etc.

Definantly an interesting prophecy no doubt, but I am not convinced it refer to Satan. Especially the Ezekiel 28 prophecy. Now Isaiah I think is a fairer speculaton, though I am still of the opinion that Isaiah's famous Lucifer prophecy refers to the king of babylon, specifically Nebuchadnezzar, but that's a whole other discussion. But Ezekiel 28 is very straightforwardly address to the Prince and King of Tyre and also Sidon (which could be reference to ancient Sidonian kingdom all around, or the literal city of Sidon, or both.)

 

[ob77]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Hello everyone.

I would like to embark on a conversation about the WAR that broke out in Heaven at Rev 12:7 and so forth.

When Satan was cast out of Heaven. MY Question is when did this take place ? I enjoy talking about the Bible and things retaining in it. So what I'm about to ask of you, is not a lot. Please before you comment do some research and only give scriptural documentation on the matter so we can all get a full understanding on this subject and where your coming from.

thanks

P.S. We need to do some kind of reasoning with scriptures to fully grasp it all.

2Ti 3:16, 17 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.



2Pe 1:20, 21 For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit.

Verse 9 says that their place was no longer found in Heaven. THEIR, Satan and his angels who fought against Michael and his angels and prevailed not, meaning Satan's side lost the battle. Now, while some may suggest that it was at this time Satan and his angels were removed from heaven, we know that Satan accuses the Father's children day and night, and that he was in heaven and to the earth, in Job. He also was on the earth to tempt Christ, until Christ sent him packing. It is at this time I believe, that Satan no longer had access to the earth. We will see him in the form of anti-Christ when he is kicked out of heaven. Now, when Satan and his angels lost their "place" in heaven, what happened was, they lost their status, their rank, and their privileges that they enjoyed previous to the war in Heaven. They no longer have what they had before. Another note on this subject is this: that the book of life , whose names are written in it from the "foundation" of the world. The Hebrew word for "foundation" here, is "Kebow" which means "overthrow". It was Satan who was overthrown and as far as the time period is concerned, this was before Adam was placed on the earth. It also means that whose name is written in the book, stood with God and those whose names are not written in it, stood with Satan. I suggest but cannot prove, that one third of the children of God stood rock solid for God, one third was solid for Satan, and one third stood on the sidelines , waiting to see who came out on top. Great topic.

 

[The_highwayman]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Who said the humans in the prophecies of Ezekiel 28 was born with instruments inside of them? Lol I can see where such a thing sounds absurd no doubt. Lol, did make me kinda laugh though, that brings a whole knew meaning to the phrase "internal organs" lol.


Back to seriousness though. I believe the king of Tyrus' workmanship of his tabrets and pipes was prepared inside him in the day he was created according to Ezekiel 28.

To use something of a modern parable, one could say of a talented musician he was born to play guitar. Or perhaps of a famous guitar maker that he was born with a workmanship of crafting guitars. Going by that standard it would seem to me that the King of Tyre was made wealthy and rich by God and should not have provoked the Lord to anger by defiling sanctuaries with iniquities. Seems greed especially is a factor in this prophecy considerring the "Traffick of iniquities," the multitude of merchandise causing violence, etc.

Definantly an interesting prophecy no doubt, but I am not convinced it refer to Satan. Especially the Ezekiel 28 prophecy. Now Isaiah I think is a fairer speculaton, though I am still of the opinion that Isaiah's famous Lucifer prophecy refers to the king of babylon, specifically Nebuchadnezzar, but that's a whole other discussion. But Ezekiel 28 is very straightforwardly address to the Prince and King of Tyre and also Sidon (which could be reference to ancient Sidonian kingdom all around, or the literal city of Sidon, or both.)

You are still using allegory and symbolism to interpret the word.....

Lets look at the opening sentence in Eze 28.13 very closely:

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;


You should ask yourself some basic questions on this first sentence.

Q: Who had been in Eden?
A: Adam, Eve and Satan

Q: What happened to all who were in Eden:
A: Adam and Eve were driven form the garden

Q: What happened to Eden
A: God placed a Cherubim and a flaming sword to keep the way guarded.

Now dont forget that the great flood took place after the Garden of Eden

Q: When did Ezekiel give the King of Tyre this prophetic word?
A: Surely sometime after the great flood and Adam and Eve were driven from the garden

And now perhaps the most important question of all

Q: How could King Tyre be in the garden of eden and Tyre at the same time?

Now lets do the same for EZE 28.14, which says:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Q: Could the human King Tyre also be a Cherub the covers?
A: The hebrew translation for cherub is: an angelic being, as guardians of Eden as flanking God's throne as an image form hovering over the Ark of the Covenant

So it would be impossible for a human king to also be an angelic being

Q: Could a human be on the Holy Mountain of God and walk among the 7 Spirits of God, which are the stones of fire?
A: NO the Bible tells us plainly that no man has seen God at any time

You would be wise to stop using allegory and symbolism in ALL your studies of the word and apply some basic and correct Biblical hermeneutics to your study, as I just showed you, it is now correct and evident that EZE 28 is talking about Satan.

 

[The_highwayman]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Verse 9 says that their place was no longer found in Heaven. THEIR, Satan and his angels who fought against Michael and his angels and prevailed not, meaning Satan's side lost the battle. Now, while some may suggest that it was at this time Satan and his angels were removed from heaven, we know that Satan accuses the Father's children day and night, and that he was in heaven and to the earth, in Job. He also was on the earth to tempt Christ, until Christ sent him packing. It is at this time I believe, that Satan no longer had access to the earth. We will see him in the form of anti-Christ when he is kicked out of heaven. Now, when Satan and his angels lost their "place" in heaven, what happened was, they lost their status, their rank, and their privileges that they enjoyed previous to the war in Heaven. They no longer have what they had before. Another note on this subject is this: that the book of life , whose names are written in it from the "foundation" of the world. The Hebrew word for "foundation" here, is "Kebow" which means "overthrow". It was Satan who was overthrown and as far as the time period is concerned, this was before Adam was placed on the earth. It also means that whose name is written in the book, stood with God and those whose names are not written in it, stood with Satan. I suggest but cannot prove, that one third of the children of God stood rock solid for God, one third was solid for Satan, and one third stood on the sidelines , waiting to see who came out on top. Great topic.

You should rightly divide what you just stated with 2 Cor 4.4 & What Jesus said in John 16.11.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Lol but now we have a problem

If the prophecy against the King of Tyre is explicitly addressed to the King of Tyre and provably came true, then it would seem you'd be using symbolism to make him seem as Satan. The Prophecy ain't addressed to Satan, its addressed to the King of Tyre about as plainly as can be plain.

1 Q: If Adam and Eve were in Eden everyone descended from Adam was in Eden

2 Q: Why was man driven from Eden?

3 Q: Eden is gone today, as you pointed out correctly, Great Flood.

4 Q: When did Ezekiel give forth his prophecy? Sometime slightly before the fall of Jerusalem to the exile to Babylon. In regards specifically to this prophecy, it is thought the King of Tyre whom would be subject to this prophecy is named Ithobaal III.

5 Q: We can explain this either because King of Tyre is human and thus was in Adam's loins from the beginning or because he was made perfect and was good from the start but the King of Tyre transgressed the will of the Lord. When one considers the prophecy against the Prince of Tyre and how it is heavily implied this Prince thought himself a god, it is likewise plausible this King of Tyre thought himself an angel and the prophet is merely mocking him with his own self-proclaimed titles.

6 Q: I can just as easily ask how the dragon Satan could be an angel. It should be noted that no one interpretted this prophecy as referring to Satan until well into the Medieval Times thousands of years after this prophecy. Though plenty of scholars ranging from ancient to modern have interpretted this prophecy as relating to the human King of Tyre, with strongest likelihood being Ithobaal III.

7 Q: Who said the stones of fire are the 7 Spirits of God? And which Holy Mountain of God are we talking about? For that matter where does it say the King of Tyre in the prophecy saw God? Seems to me your last point here is ironically full of symbolism and allegory.


Don't know what hermeneutics are, sounds wierd. I just know Ezekiel 28 blatantly, and without symbol and allegory refers to Prince and King of Tyre and also Sidon, and thus is the reason why I believe the prophecies refer to Prince and King of Tyre and land of Sidon. There is no allegory about it, those are to whom the prophecy is directly and unambiguously addressed to. Not once in this prophecy is there a mention of Satan unless one uses symbolism or allegories to make it appear as such.

 

[The_highwayman]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Lol but now we have a problem

If the prophecy against the King of Tyre is explicitly addressed to the King of Tyre and provably came true, then it would seem you'd be using symbolism to make him seem as Satan. The Prophecy ain't addressed to Satan, its addressed to the King of Tyre about as plainly as can be plain.

1 Q: If Adam and Eve were in Eden everyone descended from Adam was in Eden

2 Q: Why was man driven from Eden?

3 Q: Eden is gone today, as you pointed out correctly, Great Flood.

4 Q: When did Ezekiel give forth his prophecy? Sometime slightly before the fall of Jerusalem to the exile to Babylon. In regards specifically to this prophecy, it is thought the King of Tyre whom would be subject to this prophecy is named Ithobaal III.

5 Q: We can explain this either because King of Tyre is human and thus was in Adam's loins from the beginning or because he was made perfect and was good from the start but the King of Tyre transgressed the will of the Lord. When one considers the prophecy against the Prince of Tyre and how it is heavily implied this Prince thought himself a god, it is likewise plausible this King of Tyre thought himself an angel and the prophet is merely mocking him with his own self-proclaimed titles.

6 Q: I can just as easily ask how the dragon Satan could be an angel. It should be noted that no one interpretted this prophecy as referring to Satan until well into the Medieval Times thousands of years after this prophecy. Though plenty of scholars ranging from ancient to modern have interpretted this prophecy as relating to the human King of Tyre, with strongest likelihood being Ithobaal III.

7 Q: Who said the stones of fire are the 7 Spirits of God? And which Holy Mountain of God are we talking about? For that matter where does it say the King of Tyre in the prophecy saw God? Seems to me your last point here is ironically full of symbolism and allegory.


Don't know what hermeneutics are, sounds wierd. I just know Ezekiel 28 blatantly, and without symbol and allegory refers to Prince and King of Tyre and also Sidon, and thus is the reason why I believe the prophecies refer to Prince and King of Tyre and land of Sidon. There is no allegory about it, those are to whom the prophecy is directly and unambiguously addressed to. Not once in this prophecy is there a mention of Satan unless one uses symbolism or allegories to make it appear as such.

The Bible backs up everything I have told you....and denies everything you state...

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

The Bible backs up everything I have told you....and denies everything you state...

Lol, then why need you use allegories and symbolism to infer Satan into a prophecy addressed to the Prince and King of Tyre and Sidon?

My point ain't to argue with you here brother I like you and enjoy your e-company. The point is Satan isn't referred to in Ezekiel 28 unless we go out on a tangent of symbols and allegories. Therefore compared to the much more unambiguous references to the enemy, Ezekiel 28 should be kept on the periphery since it is not clear if it refers to the dragon, though it is starkly clear it refers to Prince and King of Tyre and Sidon.

 

[Timeline]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Lol, then why need you use allegories and symbolism to infer Satan into a prophecy addressed to the Prince and King of Tyre and Sidon?

My point ain't to argue with you here brother I like you and enjoy your e-company. The point is Satan isn't referred to in Ezekiel 28 unless we go out on a tangent of symbols and allegories. Therefore compared to the much more unambiguous references to the enemy, Ezekiel 28 should be kept on the periphery since it is not clear if it refers to the dragon, though it is starkly clear it refers to Prince and King of Tyre and Sidon.

I won't pretend to know who God is referring to, but if read all the passages about the King of Tyre you will see that there is a symbolic meaning other than the physical King of Tyre.

I have not read yet what highwayman is saying it means.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

I won't pretend to know who God is referring to, but if read all the passages about the King of Tyre you will see that there is a symbolic meaning other than the physical King of Tyre.

I have not read yet what highwayman is saying it means.

Perhaps this is so, but for the intent of answering the topic at hand of where Satan be or if he has fallen yet or not, I think we should not use the Ezekiel 28 prophecy or Isaiah's Lucifer prophecy since there is plausible doubt they refer to Satan. That is my main point.

No doubt interesting prophecies to study, but in regards to this topic I feel they should be kept on the periphery instead of be the central pillar that people make them to be when it is not even clear if these prophecies are talking about the serpent or not.

 

[pastac]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

If I was teacing this class in seminary I would fail ovet half of the responses. Why can't folks stay focused on the OP its gotten side tracked because of misinterpreted scripture and distorted understanding.But I guess we have to point out error to fix it. Mature believers keep teaching truth dont be swayed by lots of psges of distortion.Just a thought

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

If I was teacing this class in seminary I would fail ovet half of the responses. Why can't folks stay focused on the OP its gotten side trackec because of misinterpreted scripture and distorted understanding.But I guess we have to point out error to fix it. Just a thought

Aye good points indeed.

This makes me think the main crux of the OP is Satan's "fall" as described in Revelations 12 prophecy. Now my personal opinion is this is not so much a fall as it is the dragon being thrown down, but regardless of that opinion, I think maybe it be appropriate to post here the full Revelations 12 so that we might have better understanding and everyone can draw reference more accurately.

Revelation 12

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Timeline]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Perhaps this is so, but for the intent of answering the topic at hand of where Satan be or if he has fallen yet or not, I think we should not use the Ezekiel 28 prophecy or Isaiah's Lucifer prophecy since there is plausible doubt they refer to Satan. That is my main point.

No doubt interesting prophecies to study, but in regards to this topic I feel they should be kept on the periphery instead of be the central pillar that people make them to be when it is not even clear if these prophecies are talking about the serpent or not.

As I posted earlier, I think that Jesus is saying that he was thrown out of heaven when He said that he was watching as Satan fell from heaven like lightning. I believe that Job shows us that at the time Job was written satan had the ability to go back and forth (I don't know why he was allowed to do that, but it seems he was). I believe that Daniel and Revelation is telling us about a war in heaven where Michael throws satan out of heaven during Jesus' physical lifetime.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

As I posted earlier, I think that Jesus is saying that he was thrown out of heaven when He said that he was watching as Satan fell from heaven like lightning. I believe that Job shows us that at the time Job was written satan had the ability to go back and forth (I don't know why he was allowed to do that, but it seems he was). I believe that Daniel and Revelation is telling us about a war in heaven where Michael throws satan out of heaven during Jesus' physical lifetime.

Interesting views.

Way I see it Revelations 12 is yet to come to pass, but will in time indeed happen.

 

[john832]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

So then what type of being do you suppose that Satan is?

Have you read how he is described in Job 1 and 2?
How about how he is described in Isaiah 14?
Ezekiel 28? look at verse 14 again, then re-read the context.

Revelation 12:9 specifies that some angels follow Satan, and these same beings are referred to as demons throughout Scripture.

If Satan is not an angel, then are you proposing that he is a literal animal?
It seems more appropriate to read the animal descriptions as figurative descriptions.

1/3 of the angels followed him...

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 

[sltaylor]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Perhaps this is so, but for the intent of answering the topic at hand of where Satan be or if he has fallen yet or not, I think we should not use the Ezekiel 28 prophecy or Isaiah's Lucifer prophecy since there is plausible doubt they refer to Satan. That is my main point.

No doubt interesting prophecies to study, but in regards to this topic I feel they should be kept on the periphery instead of be the central pillar that people make them to be when it is not even clear if these prophecies are talking about the serpent or not.

No doubt to me, that's satan, also in Habakkuk 2, that prophecy spoke of the end...just saying, anointed as a guardian cherub, you were in Eden....not earthly man.

 

[Jason0047]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Days of Vengeance:
(A Continuation of the First 3 ½ Years of the Tribulation):

Events Leading Up To The Days of Vengeance & Middle of The Tribulation:

The Devil's Wrath Towards the Jews & Gentile Believers:

• Revelation 12:13b and Revelation 12:17

(Verse 13): He persecuted the woman who brought forth the male child. (Verse 17): And the dragon was angry with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

​

• Revelation 12:12b

(Verse 12): For the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time.​

There are several reasons the woman depicted in Revelation 12:13 is Israel, the man child is Jesus, and the remnant of her offspring is the church.

For one, we know the woman is Israel by the description of the way the woman is dressed. For the woman being clothed with the sun, the moon, and the stars is parallel of the vision from Joseph (See Genesis Chapter 37) and the twelve stars are representative of the twelve tribes of Israel.

In verse 5, it states that the woman’s child was " a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne." Clearly, this is describing Jesus. For Jesus ascended to heaven (Acts 1:9-11) and will one day establish His kingdom on earth (Revelation 20:4-6), and He will rule it with perfect judgment (the “rod of iron”; see Psalm 2:7-9).

The remnant of the woman's offspring is the church for two reasons. One, the woman (who is Israel) will be nourished or protected in the wilderness against the serpent for the last half of the tribulation; And two, the devil will make war with the remnant of her seed, the church saints, which parallels those passages about the anti-christ making war with the saints and overcoming them (Daniel 7:21) (Daniel 8:9-10) (Revelation 13:7).

 

[Jason0047]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

I believe we are being desired to be sifted by the devil before God today just like Peter was before the cross. For Jesus was aware of the devil's requests that he wanted to sift Peter like wheat. I believe the saints in the End Times will also be accused by the devil (just like us and the apostles), for they will not love their lives unto death and they will overcome the devil by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony.

Here is a great quote from an article with Scripture that makes me believe that.

"I can just see, that Satan truly works hard against us, hating us and loathing us just as much as he hates and loathes Jesus Christ our Lord! I can see how each and every time we give in to temptation and sin, Satan just jumps at the opportunity and says to God while pointing at us, See there! Look! Look at that! This one isn’t good enough for heaven! Let me have this one back! And it’s true . . . no sin can be allowed into heaven. God is a just and righteous God, and therefore sin cannot be allowed. However, let us also know and realize what the next verse says, after today’s, Verse 11, “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.” THAT is how Satan is then put to shame, and his accusations become null and void . . . when we overcome him, his accusations, his temptations, and sin in our lives, by the Blood of the Lamb of God and the word of our testimony! When we give in and sin, and then the devil points his finger at us and brings railing accusations against us, if we immediately fall to our knees and repent, truly feeling sorry for our sins and we ask for forgiveness for our sins, through the blood of Jesus Christ who died for us . . . God then turns and looks back at the devil and says, “What did you just say?” and the devil looks back to see us back on our feet, cleansed of the filthiness we were just covered in! I can imagine how much that infuriates him. Even more infuriating to him, is that when he comes against us, we resist him and he can’t even get the chance to point a finger at us and accuse us before God! Remember that even though we can receive forgiveness for our sins, if we be in Christ, we by no means should use it as an excuse to sin, by saying, “Oh I’ll just ask for forgiveness afterward,” (Because we all know how the devil loves to make us think that in our minds) because if we give in to sin, we give in to the devil who is the very one who wants us dead and in hell! We have to remember the truth that sin brings death! Let’s not invite sin into our lives! Yet remember 1 John 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”

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The devil truly hates us, because we are like Christ. We have Christ in us, and we have been made, through Christ, STRONGER than the devil. He truly hates and loathes us with a passion. He hates us enough to war against us, simply because we are in Christ, as we read later in the chapter, in Revelation 12:17 “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”We have to remember how the devil will do anything and everything, to get us to sin, to forsake God, and also to get us to simply remain quiet, still, and out of his way."​

Source:
​Bible Studies

 

[Jason0047]

Re: WHEN DID SATAN GET KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN ???? ( " LET'S GET SCRIPTURAL

Yes, Satan has been kicked out as a citizen of Heaven; But he is allowed certain rights to visit so as to accuse the brethren. Yes, I believe Satan's power has been limited and crippled by the cross. We can now cast out demons, gain direct access to our Heavenly High Priest, etc. For we are more than conquerors in Christ. But we have to ask ourselves, why is the devil cast out of heaven with their being a war in Heaven right before it?

Well, I believe Satan and his minions are probably upset when the Antichrist is killed in battle. This is their "guy" who is supposed to bring about a world wide order under his satanic rule. I believe it is at this time, that war breaks out in heaven and Satan is cast down forever out of Heaven (Whereby he will then resurrect the body of the Antichrist with a demon). In fact, we know the devil has not been cast out of Heaven completely yet because when he is cast out (in the future) we see that he persecutes the woman and the woman was nourished for a time, and times, and a half a time (Which is the last 3 and a half years of the Tribulation, i.e. time (1), times (2), and a half (1/2) (1 + 2 + 1/2 = 3 and a half).

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.​

Side Note:

Oh, and in my previous post, when I say that the End Times saints will be accused by the devil, I am referring to the saints who live before the Anti-Christ is resurrected and desocrates the Jewish Temple, showing himself to be as God and enforces the mark of the beast (Whereby he will then make war with the saints and overcome or destroy most of them).