When did the Law expire?

[FreeNChrist]

Maybe people should stop referring to the law of Moses, because Moses was only the messenger if we understand that it is actually God's law we might bring together that God does not change and we should still read His law to understand Him.

We also have people connecting law-keeping to salvation as if we are Jews. There is none so blind as they that won't see.

Scripture refers to the Law as the Law of Moses repeatedly, why shouldn't we??

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I am most often talking about the 10 commandments when I speak of desiring to understand His law in spirit and truth.
But the law of Moses is good to read too, but I desire to know it also in spirit and truth.

But even in a more outward way, it is good to instruct us sometimes, from what I have seen.

For instance, I have heard christians say that they don't believe abortion is to sin against God. But even in the law of Moses, there was a penalty to be paid for unintentionally causing a woman to prematurely abort by two men men getting into a scuffle around her and accidentally hurting her when she got tangled up in it. So if it is to receive a penalty for unintentionally causing her to abort, what on earth could come from saying it is not a sin against God to cause her to abort INTENTIONALLY. That is just insanity, truly, to say God does not abhor making our children to pass through the fire of an abortion oven. We aren't talking about unbelievers here - it is people who are believers and say they follow Christ who I have heard say abortion is not something God abhors.

Now, it is true that God goes at bringing about our obedience by making us to obey His 10 commandments in spirit and truth, so if He does this, two men won't get into a physical scuffle to begin with and the law has been kept outwardly because it was kept inwardly.in the heart in spirit and truth.

But it is just such nonsense to me to say the law has no worth at all to instruct us in any matter. I do agree though that it is also nonsense to think an outward keeping saves me or to go zealously after an outward keeping when it is the heart He is concerned with since what defiles me springs up from there. It doesn't do one any good to keep the law to not murder outwardly if he is breaking it inwardly. This is why the law can instruct us and be of use to us only when the Spirit teaches us the spirit and truth of it. When David implored God to teach him his law, he was loving the spirit and truth of Gods law, not the outward keeping of it, because the letter kills but the spirit brings life and righteousness.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Can Faith and works exist together.
Can someone obey the law and be 100% saved by faith in Gods grace.?

We are made righteous not by our own obedience, but by the obedience of Christ. (Romans 5:19)

 

[valiant]

The Law did not expire, it was fulfilled on our behalf by the LORD Jesus Christ.

 

[JaumeJ]

I posted this with the idea in mind that when Jesus insists we show mercy when applying the law, its sting was removed, that is no death sentences, justice to be included and faith in our Maker. No the law is just as valid today as it was when Jesus completed it for us.....now we are free to show our love and gratitude, while obedience is understood by those who hear Him.

Yes, I agree, but I wouldn't phrase it that He relaxed it. He just goes at it from the inside, instead of outward obeying, since sin springs from my heart to defile me. He teaches me the spirit and truth of His law so that I won't murder in spirit and if I don't murder in spirit, then the outside will just be clean as well.

 

[JaumeJ]

Everyone, especially the Author of the Law, knows that Moses was given th elaw to write down, just as all prophets were given the words to write down by God.

Moses did not originate any law, ordinance or statute. Had he done so, he would not have been a prophet of the living God.

It is also mentione how the Pharisees sat on Moses' seat, but this too is idomatic, and understood by most by its context.

Jesus called it the Law of Moses. Christians have nothing to do with the keeping of any of the law of Moses now that Christ ahs come. We live by the life of Christ in us now NOT by the Law of Moses.

Luke 24:44 (NASB)
[SUP]44 [/SUP] Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

All this "going back to the Law" stuff sounds good until you actually see it for what it really is - replacing the life and work of Christ for the keeping of the Law of Moses given by God for a specific purpose. We can trust the Holy spirit in us now in the New Covenant.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Everyone, especially the Author of the Law, knows that Moses was given th elaw to write down, just as all prophets were given the words to write down by God.

Moses did not originate any law, ordinance or statute. Had he done so, he would not have been a prophet of the living God.

It is also mentione how the Pharisees sat on Moses' seat, but this too is idomatic, and understood by most by its context.

Good, then you should have no problem with folks referring to the Law as the Law of Moses.

 

[Grace777x70]

Everyone, especially the Author of the Law, knows that Moses was given th elaw to write down, just as all prophets were given the words to write down by God.

Moses did not originate any law, ordinance or statute. Had he done so, he would not have been a prophet of the living God.

It is also mentione how the Pharisees sat on Moses' seat, but this too is idomatic, and understood by most by its context.

I agree...and the Christian has also died to the Law of Moses, been released from the Law of Moses, and is NOT under the Law of Moses but under grace only. We live now by the life of Christ inside of us as He manifests His life in and through us.

So, we need to make sure we put the Law of Moses in it's proper place in relation to Christ now. Read the Law of Moses to see Christ in it and that He has fulfilled all things and He is in us and we are in Him now. His life is how we live now.

God our Father has in these last days spoken to us in His Son. Heb. 1:1-2

 

[JaumeJ]

Forgive my repeating myself. What I posted yesterday is quite valid here.

No man is saved by anything other than the grace of God by Jesus Christ's shed Blood.

No man will get to heave by obdience of the law as explaind by Jesus Christ alone.

All men who live habitually in sin, that is breaking the law, cannot enter the Gate of Heaven, unless they repent of their sin.

Braking the law is sin. If a person does not break the law, that person's name is Jesus or Yeshua or Iesous...and more of the same in other languages.

Do not teach it is being under the law to obey God in the manner our Lord, Jesus teaches......if you believe Him,. you will DO as He has taughtus all.

Our new nature does not make us obedient to the law, it makes us strive to be so............just like Jesus Christ teaches.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Forgive my repeating myself. What I posted yesterday is quite valid here.

No man is saved by anything other than the grace of God by Jesus Christ's shed Blood.

No man will get to heave by obdience of the law as explaind by Jesus Christ alone.

All men who live habitually in sin, that is breaking the law, cannot enter the Gate of Heaven, unless they repent of their sin.

Braking the law is sin. If a person does not break the law, that person's name is Jesus or Yeshua or Iesous...and more of the same in other languages.

Do not teach it is being under the law to obey God in the manner our Lord, Jesus teaches......if you believe Him,. you will DO as He has taughtus all.

Our new nature does not make us obedient to the law, it makes us strive to be so............just like Jesus Christ teaches.

Well, which is it?

You say we are saved by the grace of God by Jesus Christ's shed Blood. But then you negate that by saying it is by repenting of any breaking of the Law.

 

[valiant]

Forgive my repeating myself. What I posted yesterday is quite valid here.

No man is saved by anything other than the grace of God by Jesus Christ's shed Blood.

No man will get to heave by obdience of the law as explaind by Jesus Christ alone.

All men who live habitually in sin, that is breaking the law, cannot enter the Gate of Heaven, unless they repent of their sin.

Braking the law is sin. If a person does not break the law, that person's name is Jesus or Yeshua or Iesous...and more of the same in other languages.

Do not teach it is being under the law to obey God in the manner our Lord, Jesus teaches......if you believe Him,. you will DO as He has taughtus all.

Our new nature does not make us obedient to the law, it makes us strive to be so............just like Jesus Christ teaches.

But the Sabbath law was specifically part of the covenant that YHWH made with Israel. We have never been under that Law. We are rather under the Law of Christ, and are bound to love the Lord our God with heart, soul mind and strength, and our neighbour as ourselves. It is noteworthy that Jesus did not include the observance of the Sabbath in the Sermon on the Mount, or the one on the Plain.

 

[JaumeJ]

A good knowledge of the etymologies, word histories, of the varied terms used in the Word is a bright light shined on the meaning of many questions a seeker may have.

To know the history of words like, Judah, Israel, Abraham, David, Isaiah, and so many more, even the town name of Bethleham, all have a lot to teach to those who are entused enough to seek. Bethlehem alone is simple to discover, it means House of Bread. Now think of Who was born there, and then think on what He said, "I am the Bread from heaven." Meditation and prayer help in all matters of understanding. Intermpretation is always the chore of the Holy Spirit. It is all very wonderful, is it not!?

 

[TheSearcherMan]

Genesis 2 : 2,3-By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

These are very deep matters we are discussing here. It can get tricky.
Jesus says if anyone teaches another to break the least of Gods' laws it's not going to go well for them.

So if I see someone believing they are not breaking Gods' law but are keeping it well by observing a day of the week to focus on God only, but then I see them eaten up with worry about their job or how they will pay the rent, I clearly see that they are outwardly keeping the law but inwardly are in disobedience and lack of trust in God (true Sabbath rest in spirit and truth. )

I'm certainly not going to urge them to outward disobedience, but it would do them harm if I didn't try to talk to them about the spirit and truth of the matter, because I clearly see their disobedience and lack of faith. So I have to do everything in my power, by the Spirit in me, to give them help that will build them up in their faith.

So...it's tricky.

 

[JaumeJ]

There are times when we all need to step back and understand that though we know all the words in the Bible it has not been given to any of us to understand it all.

Especially none well enough to lay down the (law) understanding for others. Some things are just for you to understand for the reason the Father only knows.

As for the law given to Moses,, it seems thos who desire to please God by obeying th e law according to the enlightenment afforded by Jesus Christ are the ones who love His grace, while those who cry grace the loudest are inwardly lawyers teaching disobdience as a result of their own understanding of the law without regard to faith, mercy and justice as prescribed by the Teacher, out Lord, Jesus Christ.

Understand those who believe in obedience are not necessarily so versed int he law as to be known as lawyers, while those who claim grace know all about the law except for the points stressed above by Jesus christ.

It is a very familiar situiation today. We read about it always in the New Testament.

 

[FreeNChrist]

In the New Covenant obedience takes on a radical new meaning....the "Word" to be heard and obeyed is a Person, the living Lord Jesus Christ. It is not Law-based obedience that focuses on keeping rules and regulations, as the old covenant concept did. New covenant obedience (hupakouo) means "to listen under." It is Christ's obedience that allows for, and becomes the basis of our own obedience. He is the Obedient One, and He provides everything necessary as we "listen under" Him and respond in the "obedience of faith" in order to allow Him to live out His life in us and through us.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

There are times when we all need to step back and understand that though we know all the words in the Bible it has not been given to any of us to understand it all.

Especially none well enough to lay down the (law) understanding for others. Some things are just for you to understand for the reason the Father only knows.

As for the law given to Moses,, it seems thos who desire to please God by obeying th e law according to the enlightenment afforded by Jesus Christ are the ones who love His grace, while those who cry grace the loudest are inwardly lawyers teaching disobdience as a result of their own understanding of the law without regard to faith, mercy and justice as prescribed by the Teacher, out Lord, Jesus Christ.

Understand those who believe in obedience are not necessarily so versed int he law as to be known as lawyers, while those who claim grace know all about the law except for the points stressed above by Jesus christ.

It is a very familiar situiation today. We read about it always in the New Testament.

Well, once again, it is all much deeper.
God says He gave them some laws that were not good for them. They were allowed because of the hardness of their hearts.
This is how law works, as we can see even by secular laws of our country. A law is enacted. If all were obedient, no more laws would have to be written. But because of disobedience, more laws have to be written on it. Then some disobey those laws and even more have to be written because of disobedience.

 

[JaumeJ]

Oh how many times have I posted this myself. This is very important, but no one "liked" it when I posted it..boo hoo, right? I am tickled pink to see you posting it. Yes, God says they are NOT TO BE FOLLOWED, and here is where the clarification and teaching of Jesus christ remedies all.........faith, mercy and justice. I believe mercy alone is enough for most to understand how the law should function, however learning the example of Jesus Christ and how He applied the law is the best way to understand mercy.......then of course His actual teachings.

Well, once again, it is all much deeper.
God says He gave them some laws that were not good for them. They were allowed because of the hardness of their hearts.
This is how law works, as we can see even by secular laws of our country. A law is enacted. If all were obedient, no more laws would have to be written. But because of disobedience, more laws have to be written on it. Then some disobey those laws and even more have to be written because of disobedience.

 

[beta]

But the Sabbath law was specifically part of the covenant that YHWH made with Israel. We have never been under that Law. We are rather under the Law of Christ, and are bound to love the Lord our God with heart, soul mind and strength, and our neighbour as ourselves. It is noteworthy that Jesus did not include the observance of the Sabbath in the Sermon on the Mount, or the one on the Plain.

No, but Jesus is our walking, living example and anyone who is IN Him will walk with Him 24/7 like His true Disciples. They won't need telling because it would be their way and custom.
So gentiles never had the Sabbath and even if they had they would not have kept it as God wanted - we see that from all other people who have failed miserably....so no...telling them to keep it would not have worked.
Is walking with Him any better ? it seems to work for some !

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Oh how many times have I posted this myself. This is very important, but no one "liked" it when I posted it..boo hoo, right? I am tickled pink to see you posting it. Yes, God says they are NOT TO BE FOLLOWED, and here is where the clarification and teaching of Jesus christ remedies all.........faith, mercy and justice. I believe mercy alone is enough for most to understand how the law should function, however learning the example of Jesus Christ and how He applied the law is the best way to understand mercy.......then of course His actual teachings.

Yes.
It started with one command. Don't eat that fruit.
Then 10 more came.
Then it became a mixed up and massive system of laws, even further complicated by the additions of men.
I see now what you meant when you said He simplified it for us so we would not be overwhelmed, by mercifully letting us know that all the law and the prophets are fulfilled by two commands that if we focus on and learn and obey in spirit and truth, we keep all the law of God.