Who is Elihu?

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UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
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Yes, it is Elihu's question, and it is directed at Job. Job has placed himself above God by declaring his righteousness is greater than God's righteousness..
So your answer is that you don't have any idea what Elihu was referring unto, even though Elihu said his lips would utter knowledge clearly.

Elihu that it was God who was afflicted Job, not man.

12 Yea, I attended unto you, and, behold, there was none of you that convinced Job, or that answered his words:
13 Lest ye should say, We have found out wisdom: God thrusteth him down, not man.
Job 32:12-13
 

tttallison

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Sep 20, 2024
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So your answer is that you don't have any idea what Elihu was referring unto, even though Elihu said his lips would utter knowledge clearly.

Elihu that it was God who was afflicted Job, not man.

12 Yea, I attended unto you, and, behold, there was none of you that convinced Job, or that answered his words:
13 Lest ye should say, We have found out wisdom: God thrusteth him down, not man.
Job 32:12-13
You are putting words in my mouth by presenting unclear questions.

Of course it was God who thrusted Job down. God wanted to save Job's soul. Job was hovering over the pit. God said woe to him that contends with God, and who exalts himself above God. God asked Job if he thought Job's own arm could save him. God's arm is Jesus Christ.

Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
993
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When you figure out what the cloud Elihu was speaking of in Job 37:1 is, let me know. till then I got to skittle.
 

christophernyc

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Jul 9, 2019
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There is a pastor, John A. Hartley, who preached 42 full sermons on Job, one for each chapter of the book. He ended up with five full sermons on Elihu with a lot of in-depth and insightful analysis on this character.

ELIHU: MAN ON FIRE
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/avcopc/sermons/8242101444766/

ELIHU: FALSE PROPHET, PRIEST & KING
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/avcopc/sermons/92212013570/

ELIHU WANTS TO CRUCIFY CHRIST
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/avcopc/sermons/96211224476933/

ELIHU SILENCES GOD
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/avcopc/sermons/912212327283558/

EVEN ELIHU BELIEVES AND TREMBLES
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/avcopc/sermons/926211541364613/
 

tttallison

Active member
Sep 20, 2024
385
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There is a pastor, John A. Hartley, who preached 42 full sermons on Job, one for each chapter of the book. He ended up with five full sermons on Elihu with a lot of in-depth and insightful analysis on this character.
Here lies the problem why most people do not understand the book of Job. Because pastors have a bias toward Job. They have been taught in seminaries that Job is a Saint, and the narrative laid out is always to defend Job. Job can say God will laugh at the trial of the innocent. Job can exalt himself above God, and they will always say it is alright, and then make some excuse for Job.

Hartley acknowledges that God gave Elihu six uninterrupted chapters in this book, and that is longer than twelve Old Testament books.

How can one justify God giving that much uninterrupted dialogue to a deceiver?
 
Jul 28, 2017
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God said to Job, Job 40:2 "Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it." So we see that Job has been striving with God.
Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God .Job 37:14
Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? Job 37:15

Would you think that it might be possible that Ehilu was asking Job about the great flood when it disposed the ungodly and the rainbow shined in the cloud?
 
Sep 20, 2024
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Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God .Job 37:14
Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? Job 37:15

Would you think that it might be possible that Ehilu was asking Job about the great flood when it disposed the ungodly and the rainbow shined in the cloud?
Possibly. It is all in how you interpret Strong's H7760 - śûm

The authorized version interprets it as disposed or put away.

The NASB interprets it as established.

Depending on how you interpret Strong's H7760 - śûm will determine whether it is referring to the flood or creation, or possible something else we did not see.

What verse has rainbow in it?
 
Jul 28, 2017
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Either you believe that it was referring to God putting away the wicked by a global flood during the days of Noah at which time Elihu is making the inference for God causing his light to shine in the cloud, being a reference to the bow in the cloud that was accepted by most theologians as being the rainbow to appear in the cloud.

Or you have some other plausible explanation for what Elihu was talking about if you are going to deny that the LORD was referring unto Elihu when he asked Job who it was speaking words without knowledge.

There is a big difference between accusing someone of claiming to be more righteous than God than saying a person is saying something without knowledge.
What verse has rainbow in it?
Good question, what verse says a rainbow was set in the cloud?
 
Sep 20, 2024
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Either you believe that it was referring to God putting away the wicked by a global flood during the days of Noah at which time Elihu is making the inference for God causing his light to shine in the cloud, being a reference to the bow in the cloud that was accepted by most theologians as being the rainbow to appear in the cloud.

Or you have some other plausible explanation for what Elihu was talking about if you are going to deny that the LORD was referring unto Elihu when he asked Job who it was speaking words without knowledge.


It is not even plausible that God was speaking to Elihu instead of Job, when he said, who is this that speaks without knowledge? The context does not allow for it. Only the smallest group, who do not like the narrative, insist that God is speaking to Elihu, and take a couple verses from 42 chapters, and make it the entire theme.

There is a big difference between accusing someone of claiming to be more righteous than God than saying a person is saying something without knowledge.
Everyone said Job was self-righteous. The Spirit, Job, the three friends, Elihu, and God.

The Spirit-----Job 4:16 It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying, Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?

Job-----Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

The three friends------Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

Elihu------Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?

God-------Job 40:8 Will you also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that you mayest be righteous?


Good question, what verse says a rainbow was set in the cloud?
My bible only has rainbow in Revelation.
 
Sep 20, 2024
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There is a pastor, John A. Hartley, who preached 42 full sermons on Job, one for each chapter of the book. He ended up with five full sermons on Elihu with a lot of in-depth and insightful analysis on this character.
I would not recommend John Hartley's sermons on Job.

If you put Job on a pedestal as perfect and always perfect, then you position him as equal to God. That would be above Abraham, Moses, David, and every other character in the bible.

When you try and make the Bible fit your narrative you will always get it wrong.

God chastises Job for four chapters, and only after Job repents does God's position on Job change.

Job 42:9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.

In chapter 41 God introduces Job to Satan and asks Job if he is going to take him for a servant forever. Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant forever?

Who else besides Satan beholds all things? Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

This is how it started out, with Satan beholding a meeting between God and his sons. Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
 
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We have to examine the book of Job with the principles of the New Testament.

We know that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. We know that our righteousness is as filthy rags. We know that unless we put on God's righteousness, we are none of his and committing ourselves to a fiery pit.

The first question we need ask ourselves, was Job standing on God's righteousness, or was God talking about Job's own righteousness when he said Job was upright and blameless?

If you think Job was standing on God's righteousness, why did Job say "Job 6:29 Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it." And also " Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live."

And why did God say "Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?"

Using New Testament principles Job was not saved in the beginning. We know that our own righteousness cannot save us. Clearly, we are given a picture of a very self-righteous man in chapter one and two. Self-righteousness has merit, but it will not get you into heaven because you cannot maintain it.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Elihu gives us a picture of salvation in Job 33.

Job 33:22 Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers. (23) If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: (24) Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. (25) His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth: (26) He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness. (27) He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not; (28) He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

(22) A man's soul is lost without Christ.
(23) If there is a witness to God's righteousness. (Which is Christ.)
(24) The ransom to save a man's soul is Jesus Christ. 1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
(25) How does your flesh become fresher than a child"? By being born again. Remember the question of Nicodemus?

Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

(26) (27) A picture of repentance.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

(28) He shall see the light.

Jhn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

How much clearer does it have to be?
 

lrs68

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Dec 30, 2024
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Hear my words, you wise men; Give ear to me, you who have knowledge. As the palate tastes food.

God's judgments are always just, believing that He rewards the righteous and punishes the wicked accordingly.


^

His words read like a Holy man reminding everyone that God is justified in all His decisions. He seems to be speaking as a defender of God's position in the conversation. I don't believe it would be a stretch of imagination to think this could be like Melchizedek or one of the other examples of Christophany.
 
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Hear my words, you wise men; Give ear to me, you who have knowledge. As the palate tastes food.

God's judgments are always just, believing that He rewards the righteous and punishes the wicked accordingly.


^

His words read like a Holy man reminding everyone that God is justified in all His decisions. He seems to be speaking as a defender of God's position in the conversation. I don't believe it would be a stretch of imagination to think this could be like Melchizedek or one of the other examples of Christophany.
The new translations have taken out one word from Job 33:6. That word is "mouth" in the Hebrew it is "peh". Strongs H6310

NASB20----Job 33:6 “Behold H2005, I belong to God H410, like you; I too H1571 have been [fn]formed H7169 out H7169 of the clay H2563.

Compare with the Authorized Version.

KJB----Job 33:6"Behold, I am according to thy wish H6310 in God's H410 stead: I also am formed H7169 out of the clay. H2563”

"According to thy wish" and "In God's place" is missing from the new translations.

This alters completely the picture of Elihu.

We find in the Codex Vaticanus 1209 that both the word "mouth' or in the Hebrew "peh", and the word God are both missing.

Codex Vaticanus--------Job 33:6 Οὐχ ὃ φόβος μου σὲ στροβήσει, οὐδὲ ἡ χείρ μου βαρεῖα ἔσται ἐπὶ σοί.
Thou art formed out of the clay as also I: we have been formed out of the same substance.

The fact that the new translations are derived mainly from the Codex Vaticanus could account for this aberration, and thus the respect that is due Elihu is missing.
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
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The new translations have taken out one word from Job 33:6. That word is "mouth" in the Hebrew it is "peh". Strongs H6310

NASB20----Job 33:6 “Behold H2005, I belong to God H410, like you; I too H1571 have been [fn]formed H7169 out H7169 of the clay H2563.

Compare with the Authorized Version.

KJB----Job 33:6"Behold, I am according to thy wish H6310 in God's H410 stead: I also am formed H7169 out of the clay. H2563”

"According to thy wish" and "In God's place" is missing from the new translations.

This alters completely the picture of Elihu.

We find in the Codex Vaticanus 1209 that both the word "mouth' or in the Hebrew "peh", and the word God are both missing.

Codex Vaticanus--------Job 33:6 Οὐχ ὃ φόβος μου σὲ στροβήσει, οὐδὲ ἡ χείρ μου βαρεῖα ἔσται ἐπὶ σοί.
Thou art formed out of the clay as also I: we have been formed out of the same substance.

The fact that the new translations are derived mainly from the Codex Vaticanus could account for this aberration, and thus the respect that is due Elihu is missing.
Interesting and excellent points being brought forth (y)
 
Sep 20, 2024
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Interesting and excellent points being brought forth (y)
It is interesting to note that the phrase "God's stead" is used only twice, the other time was when Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel because she was blaming Jacob for the fact that she was barren.

Gen 30:2 And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

Jacob thought it ridiculous that he could stand in the place of God.

Elihu's words were perhaps the most profound in the Bible, and yet we hear only silence from the commentators. Perhaps I have missed it, but who has expounded on this verse? (Job 33:6)
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
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It is interesting to note that the phrase "God's stead" is used only twice, the other time was when Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel because she was blaming Jacob for the fact that she was barren.

Gen 30:2 And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

Jacob thought it ridiculous that he could stand in the place of God.

Elihu's words were perhaps the most profound in the Bible, and yet we hear only silence from the commentators. Perhaps I have missed it, but who has expounded on this verse? (Job 33:6)
Ultimately speaking, Jesus would have been the same type of flesh\clay in His humanity to be our perfect Sacrifice. So Elihu could still be another example of a Christophany.
 
Jul 9, 2019
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The new translations have taken out one word from Job 33:6. That word is "mouth" in the Hebrew it is "peh". Strongs H6310

NASB20----Job 33:6 “Behold H2005, I belong to God H410, like you; I too H1571 have been [fn]formed H7169 out H7169 of the clay H2563.

Compare with the Authorized Version.

KJB----Job 33:6"Behold, I am according to thy wish H6310 in God's H410 stead: I also am formed H7169 out of the clay. H2563”

"According to thy wish" and "In God's place" is missing from the new translations.

This alters completely the picture of Elihu.

We find in the Codex Vaticanus 1209 that both the word "mouth' or in the Hebrew "peh", and the word God are both missing.

Codex Vaticanus--------Job 33:6 Οὐχ ὃ φόβος μου σὲ στροβήσει, οὐδὲ ἡ χείρ μου βαρεῖα ἔσται ἐπὶ σοί.
Thou art formed out of the clay as also I: we have been formed out of the same substance.

The fact that the new translations are derived mainly from the Codex Vaticanus could account for this aberration, and thus the respect that is due Elihu is missing.
What are your thoughts on the NKJV translation of 33:6?

6Truly I am as your spokesman before God;
I also have been formed out of clay.

Do you think "spokesman" captures the essence of what Elihu means?

The Hebrew word used "ḵə·p̄î·ḵā" has only 1 occurrence in Scripture, making it another hapax legomenon found in the book of Job. Maybe that's why other translators have difficulty translating that verse.