J
jahsoul
Guest
I don't know if this has been asked to you and you've answered it but can you detail God's law?
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Agreed.
In this case, from the apparently contradictory statements that "the law is not for following,"
yet those "who will not obey" are worse than non-believers.
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H
Hoffco
Guest
Anyone who knows they are disobeying God, living a lawless life, is like the Jew in Rom.2, teaching God's holy law but in his life disobeying God's holy law, ie. "do not steal" but still steals, this man is lost in his sin. No confusion here, if God forbids it it is sin. In this age , rejoice in eating pork, God does not forbid it. But if you sin again a stupid conscience, it would be sin for you, SOOO, my advice, to you, is for you to study only the N.T, ,for a while, and see what God forbids for us today,! love to all Hoffco
K
Karraster
Guest
It's in the Bible. It's easily found. 10 commandments, 1 of which says "remember".
Changing the Sabbath is easily found also.
- The Word of God says:
Daniel 7:25, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."
"The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." -Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary.
ab·ro·gate
tr.v.ab·ro·gat·ed, ab·ro·gat·ing, ab·ro·gates To abolish, do away with, or annul, esally by authority.
Additional definiti
I like this question! I think it means different things to different people. To me it represents a loving creator who created a world run by perfect order, and it is a guide to nations, communities, and individuals living with the same kind of order. To others it is a grim, unloving father with a stick in his hand saying do this exactly this way or I'll get you. To others it is the secular part of doing what God wants, and worthless. This is quite a question to be answered, what is law and what does it have to do with our Christianity!
H
Hoffco
Guest
I have no confusion in my mind as to God's laws for our despensation. It is what is stated in the N.T. only. The 7th day sab. has been dropped, the Sun. "Lord's day" has replaced sat. sab.. The rest of the moral law has not changed. There is a big area of freedom on what we do, but all has to be to the glory of God. And all we do must be from a clean conscience., in faith. Please read my posts for all the details. love to all, Hoffco
K
Karraster
Guest
Isaiah 55:6-7
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
When I realized that some of what I'd been taught of the Bible contradicted the Bible, my journey began. The years of trust in what men say are over, I want to know what Yahovah says.
Did Yahshua Messiah/Jesus really abolish the Laws of God? Or is He our sacrifice for sin, our example, rightly dividing and laying the plumb line between Almighty's Law and man's law? He is our Judge, our Righteous King. I will follow Him, not a man.
If I want to follow Him, I should expect to be hated. Being called a Judaizer is nothing compared to what may happen in the future. We are not advocating a conversion to Judaism. Nor are we willing to remain in the Constantinian religious system of Christianity. Will we be persecuted for having the testimony of Yeshua and keeping his Torah? He told us to expect it! There is nothing new under the sun.
“In the 4th century, Jerome also refers to Nazarenes as those “…who accept Messiah in such a way that they do not cease to observe the old Law.” In his Epistle 79, to Augustine
By the time we get to Constantine’s adoption of ‘Christianity’ as a state religion, all of the original tenants (observation of Sabbath and Torah) were subject to persecution. All of the original tenants of the faith of the Nazarenes were outlawed and made punishable by death. Presumably, Yeshua would have been subject to these punishable offenses as well!
There were still believers in Yeshua who followed the pattern he himself established! They observed the Torah. They kept the Feasts and Sabbaths and dietary laws. They were described as ‘Jews who have converted to Christianity.’ Wikipedia goes on to document how these Nazarenes were persecuted.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
...and He continues to tell who will be persecuted
Was he warning them of the events in the fourth century (and others), or are all persecutions a foreshadow of things to come? This scenario is repeated in the prophetic book of Revelation.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
What are the characteristics of this woman with which the dragon was wroth? Are they the same as those martyred by Constantine, the Inquisition etc.?
She is a remnant that keeps the commandments and the testimony of Yahshua. Not two women. Just one: the bride. The true ‘church’ that holds the same faith as that once delivered to the saints (Jude 1:3).
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
When I realized that some of what I'd been taught of the Bible contradicted the Bible, my journey began. The years of trust in what men say are over, I want to know what Yahovah says.
Did Yahshua Messiah/Jesus really abolish the Laws of God? Or is He our sacrifice for sin, our example, rightly dividing and laying the plumb line between Almighty's Law and man's law? He is our Judge, our Righteous King. I will follow Him, not a man.
If I want to follow Him, I should expect to be hated. Being called a Judaizer is nothing compared to what may happen in the future. We are not advocating a conversion to Judaism. Nor are we willing to remain in the Constantinian religious system of Christianity. Will we be persecuted for having the testimony of Yeshua and keeping his Torah? He told us to expect it! There is nothing new under the sun.
“In the 4th century, Jerome also refers to Nazarenes as those “…who accept Messiah in such a way that they do not cease to observe the old Law.” In his Epistle 79, to Augustine
By the time we get to Constantine’s adoption of ‘Christianity’ as a state religion, all of the original tenants (observation of Sabbath and Torah) were subject to persecution. All of the original tenants of the faith of the Nazarenes were outlawed and made punishable by death. Presumably, Yeshua would have been subject to these punishable offenses as well!
There were still believers in Yeshua who followed the pattern he himself established! They observed the Torah. They kept the Feasts and Sabbaths and dietary laws. They were described as ‘Jews who have converted to Christianity.’ Wikipedia goes on to document how these Nazarenes were persecuted.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
...and He continues to tell who will be persecuted
Was he warning them of the events in the fourth century (and others), or are all persecutions a foreshadow of things to come? This scenario is repeated in the prophetic book of Revelation.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
What are the characteristics of this woman with which the dragon was wroth? Are they the same as those martyred by Constantine, the Inquisition etc.?
She is a remnant that keeps the commandments and the testimony of Yahshua. Not two women. Just one: the bride. The true ‘church’ that holds the same faith as that once delivered to the saints (Jude 1:3).
K
Karraster
Guest
I can point you to a thread
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/81559-expounding-feasts-lord-18.html
Lovingly detailed!
H
Hoffco
Guest
To karraster, Good to hear you are studying the Bible for yourselk. It is a lonely road to travel. May the good Lord Jesus encourage you. Love to all, hoffco
Hebrews 12:18-24
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
[SUP]20 [/SUP](For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
How come they couldn't endure that which was commanded? Because the Law is spiritual but they thought they could follow it by their will and strength.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
If the Hebrews couldn't keep the law by their strength and will how will you? Jesus gives the solution.
Matthew 11:28 [SUP] [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
How? How will He give us rest when we must keep the law??? By the Spirit. The Spirit gives us rest. We don't work at the law because the Spirit has caused us to rest. The Spirit hasn't caused us to break any law, only stop working at them.
Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
To God goes all the Glory. Even the keeping of His Law. How are you going to keep a Spiritual Law by your will and strength, in the flesh?
Who has the testimony of Jesus but those who have the Spirit and rest from their works?
All of this is spiritually discerned. I wouldn't be able to tell you about any of this if I were relying on my own understanding.
So why bother telling someone spiritual truth when they are carnally bound? The Lord Jesus did. Not because He thought that particular audience would listen and follow Him, but because He knew that they were the words of Life and Truth and His message would get through to a people who were not a people.
Romans 9:25-26
[SUP]25 [/SUP]As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
H
Hoffco
Guest
To Grandpa,I enjoyed your post # 290. You answered your question of why could they not "endures" the laws of God, with Pauls words, "I am carnal, sold under sin". This is true ,we brake God's laws because we are sinners, still born to wander; But, as Paul, we are born of God, so as Paul, we obey the law with our mind, renewed in the image of God, But,not yet perfected in the flesh yet. We want to keep God's law and we do, but not perfectly, but intentional, and when we sin, we confess it and Rest in Jesus Blood. Do you agree? Love to all, Hoffco
To The Hoff -
I guess in the end we are just trying to do our best before the Lord. We all fall into some sort of works that we try to push to be pleasing to God. I guess that's mostly what we need to repent from. What has Christ not accomplished for us? Oh we of little faith...
I guess in the end we are just trying to do our best before the Lord. We all fall into some sort of works that we try to push to be pleasing to God. I guess that's mostly what we need to repent from. What has Christ not accomplished for us? Oh we of little faith...
SO we need to repent of doing things that please the Most High?
What Messiah do you follow?
The Messiah I follow says:
Mattithyah 7:21, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."
iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
No rather we need to please Yahweh in the manner HE SAYS, not in a way of our own imagination.
H
Hoffco
Guest
To Grampa. Sorry, I see you really, don't agree with me, you despise the work of the Spirit in us to make us a people of good works as God has preordained that we walk in. Where is your 'work of faith" you labor of love"? The new birth created us a new holy person for good works, to honor our Father God. we are made like God, holy in heart and life.
,not perfect but intending and delighting to obey our Father. Please Don't despise the work of the Father. Love to God receives an eternal life reward. Rom.6:22 Hoffco
;22
,not perfect but intending and delighting to obey our Father. Please Don't despise the work of the Father. Love to God receives an eternal life reward. Rom.6:22 Hoffco
;22
If you are walking according to the edicts of the Law, you're confusing 'good works prepared in advance for us to do' (Eph. 2:10, New Covenant works in Christ) with 'Dead works' (Heb. 6:1-2, Old Covenant works of the Law).
Obedience after the Cross is this:
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. (from 1 Jn. 3)
The following, parts 1, 2 and 3 of a three-part teaching goes through Heb. 6 regarding what dead works are really, really well:
Parts 1 - 3 are linked to here:
- Glory & Grace Conference - Can You Lose Your Salvation? - Part 1 | GOD TV
- Glory & Grace Conference - Can You Lose Your Salvation? - Part 2 | GOD TV
- Glory & Grace Conference - Can You Lose Your Salvation? - Part 3 | GOD TV
Highly recommended.
-JGIG
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Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:
Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."
All as in even the ones he didn't list...
Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.
And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.
Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."
Mattithyah 19:17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. you shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your father and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."
Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."
1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."
Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:
Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."
All as in even the ones he didn't list...
Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.
And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.
Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."
Mattithyah 19:17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. you shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your father and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."
Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."
1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."
I love the work of the Holy Spirit in us. I love the work of the Father.
I despise teaching Christians that they must turn away from Christ and turn back to their own works of the law.
If you could obey the Father you wouldn't need Christ or the Holy Spirit. How do you not understand that? You haven't stopped worshipping your own will yet?
D
danschance
Guest
Obeying the Father is not a work of faith. I want to please God but not because I must as a slave to him. I want to please Him because I love Him.
D
danschance
Guest
All Christians are under the law of Christ, not the old former Mosaic laws. We are motivated to obey the law of Christ by our love for him.
K
Karraster
Guest
What are the guidelines? Does it vary from person to person? What is the Law of Christ?