( whoso readeth, let him understand: )
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Short Speech?
More Like God's Truth
Gary your teachings are in (Error)
You can't have the AOD in 167BC and the Great Tribulation starting in 70AD, the AOD Is The Cause Of The Great Tribulation.
I addressed your claim that the AOD in Matthew 24:15 was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes
I addressed your claim that the Great Tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 started in 70AD and has been continuously going on for 1950 years and counting.
Matthew Writes A Warning In Matthew 24:15 200+ Years After Your Claimed Fulfillment?
(As Previously Stated) in your view that the AOD was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes puts you in the (Partial Preterist) camp, on that one event alone.
Antiochus wasn't the AOD, that took place 200+ years (Before) the writing of Matthew 24:15, a simple no Brainer.
Another concern is your claim that the (Great Tribulation) seen in Matthew 24:21 has been ongoing for the past 1950 years?
The scripture clearly teaches that the Great Tribulation will be caused by the Abomination Of Desolation seen in Matthew 24:15, the scripture clearly teaches it's a sudden event, as people flee homes, leave fields and clothes?
The scripture clearly teaches that the time is so bad no flesh could survive, the days are cut short, and will be stopped at the (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ in the heavens.
Gary The World Hasn't Been Experiencing A Great Tribulation Described Below For The Past 1950 Years, (No, Nor Ever Shall Be) let's Be Honest With The scriptural Facts below
Gary it's a fairy tale to teach that the (Great Tribulation) seen below, started in 70AD, and will continue somewhere in the future at the revealing of the (Two Witnesses)
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-30KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
More Like God's Truth
Gary your teachings are in (Error)
You can't have the AOD in 167BC and the Great Tribulation starting in 70AD, the AOD Is The Cause Of The Great Tribulation.
I addressed your claim that the AOD in Matthew 24:15 was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes
I addressed your claim that the Great Tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 started in 70AD and has been continuously going on for 1950 years and counting.
Matthew Writes A Warning In Matthew 24:15 200+ Years After Your Claimed Fulfillment?
(As Previously Stated) in your view that the AOD was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes puts you in the (Partial Preterist) camp, on that one event alone.
Antiochus wasn't the AOD, that took place 200+ years (Before) the writing of Matthew 24:15, a simple no Brainer.
Another concern is your claim that the (Great Tribulation) seen in Matthew 24:21 has been ongoing for the past 1950 years?
The scripture clearly teaches that the Great Tribulation will be caused by the Abomination Of Desolation seen in Matthew 24:15, the scripture clearly teaches it's a sudden event, as people flee homes, leave fields and clothes?
The scripture clearly teaches that the time is so bad no flesh could survive, the days are cut short, and will be stopped at the (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ in the heavens.
Gary The World Hasn't Been Experiencing A Great Tribulation Described Below For The Past 1950 Years, (No, Nor Ever Shall Be) let's Be Honest With The scriptural Facts below
Gary it's a fairy tale to teach that the (Great Tribulation) seen below, started in 70AD, and will continue somewhere in the future at the revealing of the (Two Witnesses)
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-30KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Gary with all do respect and in (Love)
You teach the AOD in Matthew 24:15 below was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes 200+ years before Matthew wrote the warning?
Why would Matthew, inspired by the Holy Spirit write a warning about something already fulfilled?
Gary you will closely note below in the scripture, the AOD that you teach took place in 167BC, causes the (Great Tribulation) seen in Matthew 24:21 below that you teach began in 70AD?
(For Then) shall be great tribulation
Gary you can't have the AOD in 167BC and people in a hurry fleeing to the mountains, from housetops, fields, leaving clothes, representing 200+ years
We don't need to consider your teaching that this Great Tribulation is continuous for 1950 years to this present, and going into the future.
Once Again, you can't have a 167BC fulfillment of Matthew 24:15 with verses 16-21 waiting for 200+ years in a 70AD fulfillment, no Brainer
Is the tribulation seen 1950+ years long?
A One Time Event (No, Nor Ever Shall Be)?
In Love
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
You teach the AOD in Matthew 24:15 below was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes 200+ years before Matthew wrote the warning?
Why would Matthew, inspired by the Holy Spirit write a warning about something already fulfilled?
Gary you will closely note below in the scripture, the AOD that you teach took place in 167BC, causes the (Great Tribulation) seen in Matthew 24:21 below that you teach began in 70AD?
(For Then) shall be great tribulation
Gary you can't have the AOD in 167BC and people in a hurry fleeing to the mountains, from housetops, fields, leaving clothes, representing 200+ years
We don't need to consider your teaching that this Great Tribulation is continuous for 1950 years to this present, and going into the future.
Once Again, you can't have a 167BC fulfillment of Matthew 24:15 with verses 16-21 waiting for 200+ years in a 70AD fulfillment, no Brainer
Is the tribulation seen 1950+ years long?
A One Time Event (No, Nor Ever Shall Be)?
In Love
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
I agree, Jesus was answering a question of, "when will these things be?" His answer was prophetic, it was all future events.
The prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27, verse 24 gives the exact time frame of Messiah, 70 weeks were determined or 490 years to fulfill the prophesy. From the time of Daniel, 457 years to Messiah, there are seven weeks and sixty two weeks, that is 69 weeks or 483 years. That brings us up to 27 A.D. which was the start of Jesus 3.5 year ministry. After threescore and 2 weeks (vs 26) Messiah would be cut-off (killed 31 A.D) mid 70th week. The second half of the 70th week doesn't follow consecutively, but is fulfilled in the end times. The "prince who is to come" is the beast from the sea (Daniel 8:23-27), and the "little horn" (Daniel 7:8) is the antichrist. This is the 7 year tribulation, shortened to the second half of the 70th week or 3.5 years.
The prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27, verse 24 gives the exact time frame of Messiah, 70 weeks were determined or 490 years to fulfill the prophesy. From the time of Daniel, 457 years to Messiah, there are seven weeks and sixty two weeks, that is 69 weeks or 483 years. That brings us up to 27 A.D. which was the start of Jesus 3.5 year ministry. After threescore and 2 weeks (vs 26) Messiah would be cut-off (killed 31 A.D) mid 70th week. The second half of the 70th week doesn't follow consecutively, but is fulfilled in the end times. The "prince who is to come" is the beast from the sea (Daniel 8:23-27), and the "little horn" (Daniel 7:8) is the antichrist. This is the 7 year tribulation, shortened to the second half of the 70th week or 3.5 years.
I don't fully agree with your interpretation on Daniels 70 weeks, however you can't have a 167BC fulfillment of Matthew 24:15, and have verses 16-21 Waiting 200+ years for fulfillment in 70AD
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
The prophecy of Daniel concerning the AoD was fulfilled in 167 B.C.
The prophecy of Matthew 24:15 was fulfilled circa 70 A.D.
Matthew 24:15 is not making a prophetic statement about the 'event' which is the AoD - Daniel did that; rather, it is making a prophetic statement about the 'event' that occurred circa 70 A.D.
So as not to repeat what has already been written - go to post #1 in this thread and start reading (if you have not already read the earlier pages of this thread).
The prophecy of Matthew 24:15 was fulfilled circa 70 A.D.
Matthew 24:15 is not making a prophetic statement about the 'event' which is the AoD - Daniel did that; rather, it is making a prophetic statement about the 'event' that occurred circa 70 A.D.
So as not to repeat what has already been written - go to post #1 in this thread and start reading (if you have not already read the earlier pages of this thread).
Gary I would request that you respond to my post "Directly", this will remove the mystery on who you are responding to, thanks!
Matthew is writing to a future audience, not some audience in time past, as your claim of 167BC fulfillment of Daniels Abomination in Antiochus IV Epiphanes?
Matthew Writes (When Ye Therefore Shall See), Not Some Previous Audience In 167BC?
You will closely note, that this Abomination causes verses 16-21 below to take place?
Once again, you can't have a 167BC AOD, with Matthew warning the audience to flee, and that the (Great Tribulation) is taking place, directly related to Daniels Abomination Of Desolation.
Yes Gary, the (Historicist) teaching is (False) just as (Preterism) is false.
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew is writing to a future audience, not some audience in time past, as your claim of 167BC fulfillment of Daniels Abomination in Antiochus IV Epiphanes?
Matthew Writes (When Ye Therefore Shall See), Not Some Previous Audience In 167BC?
You will closely note, that this Abomination causes verses 16-21 below to take place?
Once again, you can't have a 167BC AOD, with Matthew warning the audience to flee, and that the (Great Tribulation) is taking place, directly related to Daniels Abomination Of Desolation.
Yes Gary, the (Historicist) teaching is (False) just as (Preterism) is false.
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Gary I would request that you respond to my post "Directly", this will remove the mystery on who you are responding to, thanks!
Matthew is writing to a future audience, not some audience in time past, as your claim of 167BC fulfillment of Daniels Abomination in Antiochus IV Epiphanes?
Matthew Writes (When Ye Therefore Shall See), Not Some Previous Audience In 167BC?
You will closely note, that this Abomination causes verses 16-21 below to take place?
Once again, you can't have a 167BC AOD, with Matthew warning the audience to flee, and that the (Great Tribulation) is taking place, directly related to Daniels Abomination Of Desolation.
Yes Gary, the (Historicist) teaching is (False) just as (Preterism) is false.
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew is writing to a future audience, not some audience in time past, as your claim of 167BC fulfillment of Daniels Abomination in Antiochus IV Epiphanes?
Matthew Writes (When Ye Therefore Shall See), Not Some Previous Audience In 167BC?
You will closely note, that this Abomination causes verses 16-21 below to take place?
Once again, you can't have a 167BC AOD, with Matthew warning the audience to flee, and that the (Great Tribulation) is taking place, directly related to Daniels Abomination Of Desolation.
Yes Gary, the (Historicist) teaching is (False) just as (Preterism) is false.
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Let's just take the great tribulation...
Matthew 24:21
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
The Messiah references the prophecies given to Daniel during His Olivet Discourse, particularly that there would be a TIMEFRAME of great tribulation for his people. And if we go to Daniel 12 we read an angel giving him a similar prophecy.
Daniel 12:1
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Ok, so if we read chapter 12 even further it's safe to assume this is the same TIMEFRAME of Great Tribulation the Messiah is referencing...and it's for DANIEL'S PEOPLE. Next, we read that this timeframe lasts for "time, times, and a half time"...
Daniel 12:6-7
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth forever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Ok so, swearing by the living God, the timeframe of this terrible trouble would be a set time...but that's not all that was sworn. Notice the last portion of the statement as it's also part of the sworn answer.
Daniel 12:7
...when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."
So the time of terrible trouble...the time of Great Tribulation...would result in THE SCATTERING OF THE HOLY PEOPLE...and then it would be finished.
Now, all of Christianity recognizes that Israel (and the Jews of Judah) have ALREADY BEEN SCATTERED to the four corners of the world, and this happened in the middle ages, between the time of the 70AD destruction of the temple & Jerusalem, through all of the suffering and calamity they experienced in history so far, through to today...where we all currently acknowledge that all Israel hasn't been regathered back to Jerusalem yet.
This means the great tribulation has been happening throughout history, and its "time, times, and half" timeframe isn't 3.5 years but more like 1260 years.
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Sorry, Can't have a 167BC In Daniels AOD, And Matthew Writing (When Ye Shall Therefore See), That Would Be Denying The Plain Truth Of Scripture.(Future Audience)
Matthew is writing to a future audience, not some audience in time past, as you agree with Gary in the claim of 167BC fulfillment of Daniels Abomination in Antiochus IV Epiphanes?
Matthew Writes (When Ye Therefore Shall See), Not To Some Previous Audience In 167BC?
You will closely note, that this Abomination causes verses 16-21 below to take place?
Once again, you can't have a 167BC AOD, with Matthew warning the audience to flee, and that the (Great Tribulation) is taking place, directly related to Daniels Abomination Of Desolation.
Yes the (Historicist) teaching is (False) just as (Preterism) is false.
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew is writing to a future audience, not some audience in time past, as you agree with Gary in the claim of 167BC fulfillment of Daniels Abomination in Antiochus IV Epiphanes?
Matthew Writes (When Ye Therefore Shall See), Not To Some Previous Audience In 167BC?
You will closely note, that this Abomination causes verses 16-21 below to take place?
Once again, you can't have a 167BC AOD, with Matthew warning the audience to flee, and that the (Great Tribulation) is taking place, directly related to Daniels Abomination Of Desolation.
Yes the (Historicist) teaching is (False) just as (Preterism) is false.
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Your claim that the tribulation seen Matthew 24:21 is representing a ongoing tribulation for the past 1950 years?
Warning to flee, leaving houses, clothes, and fields not turning back, this representing 1950 continuous years?
A Time So Bad (No, Nor Ever Sha Be) representing 1950 continuous years?
(A Big Fairy Tale) And That's A Big Understatement!
Warning to flee, leaving houses, clothes, and fields not turning back, this representing 1950 continuous years?
A Time So Bad (No, Nor Ever Sha Be) representing 1950 continuous years?
(A Big Fairy Tale) And That's A Big Understatement!
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I would request that you swallow your PRIDE, stop "playing your tape", and try to have a more intelligent discussion of the topic.
1) Read the TITLE of the thread. The specific meaning of the title [parenthetical] phrase is the topic of the thread.
2) Read the OP of the thread. It will help you understand my perspective of the meaning of the thread title phrase.
3) Quote the OP of the thread and respond specifically to the specific details of the explanation made there.
(And - please try to discuss the specific details of the explanation WITHOUT "playing your tape"...)
Do you think you can do that?
You are definitely NOT understanding what I am saying. And, you do not seem to want to even try to understand what I am saying.
It is okay to disagree; however, if you are not willing to discuss the topic of the thread - instead of "blasting forth" your personal not-topic-specific play-your-tape [style] "presentation" like someone holding their hands to their ears while saying "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" - then, you are no-doubt wasting your time - because, I know beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt that I am wasting mine...
1) Read the TITLE of the thread. The specific meaning of the title [parenthetical] phrase is the topic of the thread.
2) Read the OP of the thread. It will help you understand my perspective of the meaning of the thread title phrase.
3) Quote the OP of the thread and respond specifically to the specific details of the explanation made there.
(And - please try to discuss the specific details of the explanation WITHOUT "playing your tape"...)
Do you think you can do that?
You are definitely NOT understanding what I am saying. And, you do not seem to want to even try to understand what I am saying.
It is okay to disagree; however, if you are not willing to discuss the topic of the thread - instead of "blasting forth" your personal not-topic-specific play-your-tape [style] "presentation" like someone holding their hands to their ears while saying "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" - then, you are no-doubt wasting your time - because, I know beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt that I am wasting mine...
I read you initial post 3 times.
You claim Daniels AOD mentioned in Matthew 24:15 took place in 167BC, It didn't, a false teaching in error
You claim Jesus wasn't speaking to a future audience, but was reflecting on the claimed AOD in 167BC, another false teaching in error.
Pride?
You have been clearly shown the error and truth
You claim Daniels AOD mentioned in Matthew 24:15 took place in 167BC, It didn't, a false teaching in error
You claim Jesus wasn't speaking to a future audience, but was reflecting on the claimed AOD in 167BC, another false teaching in error.
Pride?
You have been clearly shown the error and truth
I read you initial post 3 times.
You claim Daniels AOD mentioned in Matthew 24:15 took place in 167BC, It didn't, a false teaching in error
You claim Jesus wasn't speaking to a future audience, but was reflecting on the claimed AOD in 167BC, another false teaching in error.
Pride?
You have been clearly shown the error and truth
You claim Daniels AOD mentioned in Matthew 24:15 took place in 167BC, It didn't, a false teaching in error
You claim Jesus wasn't speaking to a future audience, but was reflecting on the claimed AOD in 167BC, another false teaching in error.
Pride?
You have been clearly shown the error and truth
Now, that is "much better" - thank you for staying on topic.
Gary you run from direct debate on the scripture presented below why?
Jesus is warning a future audience, not some audience in time past, as you agree with Gary in the claim of 167BC fulfillment of Daniels Abomination in Antiochus IV Epiphanes?
Matthew Writes (When Ye Therefore Shall See), Not To Some Previous Audience In 167BC?
You will closely note, that this Abomination causes verses 16-21 below to take place?
Once again, you can't have a 167BC AOD, with Matthew warning the audience to flee, and that the (Great Tribulation) is taking place, directly related to Daniels Abomination Of Desolation.
Yes the (Historicist) teaching is (False) just as (Preterism) is false.
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.