William Booth's Insight.

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Aussie52

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Aug 31, 2022
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William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army once wrote:

" I consider that the chief dangers which will confront the coming century will be, religion without the Holy Spirit, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God and heaven without hell".

Dare I say that what he wrote was somewhat prophetic?

Are not his concerns evident in much of today's Church?

What can be done to remedy the situation?
 
He forgot to mention Christianity without baptism. Booth taught baptism was unnecessary and only caused divisions.
 
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One of my friends enrolled in the Salvation Army as a soldier last week but she had already been baptised (in another church) decades ago.

She gets to wear a uniform, but when she wears it, people will either come to her for help or they may think she's the police and stay away.
 
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Aussie52 said:
William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army once wrote:

" I consider that the chief dangers which will confront the coming century will be, religion without the Holy Spirit, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God and heaven without hell".

Dare I say that what he wrote was somewhat prophetic?

Are not his concerns evident in much of today's Church?

What can be done to remedy the situation?
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It doesn't take an oracle to see that. We have had all these things as long as I have been alive, and history claims they were prevalent long before I came along.

The only thing I know that will counter these things is persecution. When real Christians are persecuted, fake Christians vanish.
 
Aussie52 said:
There is some truth in his position although I believe baptism to be valid.
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You have to give him credit for emphasizing salvation and living a holy life; however, baptism is necessary. It doesn't save independent of faith, but it's necessary; it's part of living a holy and righteous life before God.
 
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Question...why did William Booth not think baptism was necessary? Surely he wanted to wash 'the great unwashed'
 
Booth rejected the Lord's supper as well. He believed it was simply an "institutional ritual" that gave people a false sense of security. In a way I can see his point; in many religious institutions the Lord's supper and baptism have become mere rituals with no real meaning. However, you don't toss something out simply because people misunderstand its significance or importance.
 
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Lanolin said:
Question...why did William Booth not think baptism was necessary? Surely he wanted to wash 'the great unwashed'
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I think you have to see Booth in his historic setting. He was in the midst of a revival as such and combating social evils. Converts were coming in large numbers, the unkept of London. He held a high standard of holiness for his converts and wanted them to trust Christ wholly for their complete salvation. He saw outward rituals as a hindrance to that end. Also like the Wesley brothers before him, he wasn't out to start another 'Church' but an army that would take the nation for Christ.
 
Aussie52 said:
I think you have to see Booth in his historic setting. He was in the midst of a revival as such and combating social evils. Converts were coming in large numbers, the unkept of London. He held a high standard of holiness for his converts and wanted them to trust Christ wholly for their complete salvation. He saw outward rituals as a hindrance to that end. Also like the Wesley brothers before him, he wasn't out to start another 'Church' but an army that would take the nation for Christ.
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Did they not have believer's baptism back then?
I know the Anglicans mostly had infant baptism. Not sure about the Methodists (Wesleyans) but surely it wasn't a ritual for them.
 
ResidentAlien said:
Booth rejected the Lord's supper as well. He believed it was simply an "institutional ritual" that gave people a false sense of security. In a way I can see his point; in many religious institutions the Lord's supper and baptism have become mere rituals with no real meaning. However, you don't toss something out simply because people misunderstand its significance or importance.
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All who worship our Savior in spirit and truth learn from Him, for He gave us the Gospel, none other.
 
Lanolin said:
Did they not have believer's baptism back then?
I know the Anglicans mostly had infant baptism. Not sure about the Methodists (Wesleyans) but surely it wasn't a ritual for them.
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John Wesley kept the Methodist movement within the Church of England (Anglican) during his lifetime. So those converts of the Methodist revival who had not been baptized as babies, were baptized in the Church of England. After Wesley's death, the Methodists left the Anglican fold and set up the Methodist Church as an independent denomination. They usually baptized babies by sprinkling and adults by immersion. It certainly was not just ritual for the Methodists but rather a part of Gospel blessing.
 
Aussie52 said:
John Wesley kept the Methodist movement within the Church of England (Anglican) during his lifetime. So those converts of the Methodist revival who had not been baptized as babies, were baptized in the Church of England. After Wesley's death, the Methodists left the Anglican fold and set up the Methodist Church as an independent denomination. They usually baptized babies by sprinkling and adults by immersion. It certainly was not just ritual for the Methodists but rather a part of Gospel blessing.
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Ok, so where does William Booth fit in, was he out of Methodism or the Church of England? What about his wife, Catherine?
 
Regarding the OP quote from William Booth - the coming century...was last century?

I would think he'd be describing the Unitarians.
 
Booth actually did start another church; or, another denomination if you will. See https://www.salvationarmy.org.au/our-faith/our-beliefs/.

Q: Is The Salvation Army a religion or a mix of denominations?

A: The Salvation Army is not a religion nor is it a mix of denominations. The Salvation Army stands independently as a denomination of the Christian Church alongside other churches, for example, the Anglican, Baptist and Uniting Churches.
 
Lanolin said:
Regarding the OP quote from William Booth - the coming century...was last century?

I would think he'd be describing the Unitarians.
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Yes, the 20th century. I think he could be describing Liberal or Modernistic theology that denies the deity of Christ.
 
Lanolin said:
Ok, so where does William Booth fit in, was he out of Methodism or the Church of England? What about his wife, Catherine?
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Booth was originally with the Methodists but left them to concentrate on working with the underpriveleged.
Lanolin said:
Ok, so where does William Booth fit in, was he out of Methodism or the Church of England? What about his wife, Catherine?
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Catherine worked alongside William. She was a great preacher of the Gospel and of Holiness. They were a very effective pair.
 
Aussie52 said:
Booth was originally with the Methodists but left them to concentrate on working with the underpriveleged.


Catherine worked alongside William. She was a great preacher of the Gospel and of Holiness. They were a very effective pair.
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And did he make his own denomination - the Salvation Army or did this break away from the Methodists. He didn't want his converts joining the Anglican church or the Methodist church?

Wouldn't that have caused even more division if they didn't join them?

I don't understand. If you're a born again Christian believer, no matter what denomination you are in, wouldn't you WANT to obey God and be baptised to declare you are one? Wouldn't you want to join in the Lord's supper that all Christians are now allowed to partake in??

You are baptised both spiritually inwardly (in the holy spirit) and outwardly (water) as a sign to others. Didn't Phillip talk to the Ethipion eunuch and he says'here's water, what hinders me from being baptised'?
Then Phillip says for him to believe in his heart you can. The Eunuch then said to him 'I believe Jesus Christ is the son of God.'
Then they go down to the water and get baptised. Phillip baptises the eunuch.

This is all in Acts 8:37-39

It wasn't a ritual, and they didn't even need to go into a church building or anything. They were riding in a chariot, they weren't at a baptismal font.
 
So anyone who is converted or goes to the Salvation Army doesn't get baptised when they believe? That just makes no sense.
 
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