women as church leaders and teachers

[Grey]

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says".

From Corinthians 14:34, your thoughts?

 

[kenisyes]

Hi kenisyes - No I don't feel I am called to a ministry traditionally allowed to men only.
I do run across people who are adamant that women should not be pastors or act in that role, which to some that means they cannot teach - especially to men. Just as marriage is (should be) a true partnership, with one leader, the church also cannot function effectively without the talents and efforts of both genders.

I was going to encourage you if you were; I thought that's what might be behind the question. I agree with you. "In Christ there is neither male nor female" trumps "I do not permit a woman..." every time.

 

[kenisyes]

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says".

From Corinthians 14:34, your thoughts?

Greek "gunae" does not mean the same as English "woman". It means a woman living out a sexual role. That's who is not supposed to speak in church. When you read the Bible in Greek, a woman in ministry is never called a woman, but a pastoress, prophetess, etc. She ceases to be a gunae when she steps into the ministry. Even the wife of an apostle is not called a gunae, but an "alephe gunae", or Christian sister in the role of a wife. When the three women go to the tomb, they are called "women" until Jesus sends them to tell the apostles He is risen. They are not called women from that point on (since they are now evangelists), but are called "they".

 

[danschance]

The same as I posted on suicide, I will post here. It is apparant the very same folks who say the Law is dead or abolished are the very same ones who, because in Paul's time, women in any authority were frowned upon, have made their own law, without consulting Yahweh, barring women from serving Yeshua. These are the same folks who say a suicide is unforgiveable because it is killing, one of the laws and one of the Ten Commandments. Damned if you do not, damned if you do. God is not yay and nay; He is always Yay! Praise God, He is worthy, not one of us, amen.

I am glad you mentioned the cultural aspect of this discussion. Certainly women in Paul's day held less authority than they do today. If the cultural norm was very male dominated, such as is in some Islamic countires, I don't see how a church could thrive if it was run by a female senior pastor. So the attitudes and cultural norms of a particular society should be considered.

Many men today here in the US consider women to be 100% equal in the work place. So why should we consider them not equal in the church?

 

[danschance]

Now there is one more issue no has discussed. The is a demonic spirit known as Jezebel and it often is associated with females.

But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. Revelation 2:20

The Jezebel Spirit is a very destructive spirit and is mostly in women but not exclusively so. Those with a Jezebel spirit often attempt to control others thru intimidation and manipulation. The link below offers some insights into how a person with a Jezebel Spirit tends to act.

30 Amazingly Consistent Traits of the Jezebel Spirit

 

[Dude653]

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says".

From Corinthians 14:34, your thoughts?[/QUOTThis is taken out of its context. Paul was specifically adressing the church of corinth because they were having issues with women being disruptive in church.

 

[kenisyes]

It should be pointed out that Jezebel never spoke up in church. She just killed the true prophets and made her husband feed 850 pagan prophets, so they could speak for her.

 

[danschance]

It should be pointed out that Jezebel never spoke up in church. She just killed the true prophets and made her husband feed 850 pagan prophets, so they could speak for her.

Actually the verse I posted from Revelation is to a church castigating them for tolerating Jezebel in their church. She is also called a prophetess so she must of spoke to someone.

 

[Kate913]

So we take the verses that we like and just descredit the ones that we do not simply because we think some how that we need to consider the history of it all? Do you not think that God intended for His word to be enough? Does God really need us to go to other books and philosophers and ask them the historical background so that we can gain understanding? No he does not! God means the things that he says. He means for it to be understood by the Holy Spirit and for us to stop trying to understand things with our carnal minds. Understanding will not come that way. Whether for historical reasons or any other God said that we are not to add or take away from the word!

Revelation 22:18-19
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

Proverbs 30:5-6
5 “Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

2 Peter 1:20
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

God knew what he was doing when he gave His servants His word. Who are we to say that God only intended that to apply to a certain time. Wake Up! Quit choosing what you want to hear just because it doesn't make sense to you! Stop trying to "interpret" the scripture and let the Holy Spirit teach you.


JaumeJ, It is not the law to say that we should obey what the word of God says and this it what it says...

1 Timothy 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

God makes it clear in scripture that He will use a woman to have is word preached and to bring Him glory, but only in times when no men are willing to be used by God. This should not be degrading to women in any way because we were made to be a helper and God says that this is orderly worship, for a woman to remain silent in church. Our function in the body is just different, but not one can say to the other, I don't need you.

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

 

[nathan3]

Women can't do much worse then what men have managed to do with it. I wont list all those accomplishments, its rather many , and bleak .


Matthew 7:21-23 (King James Version)

 

[iwant2serve]

Hi. Here are a couple of questions. You can answer one or all. While I cannot prevent you from doing so, I do ask you keep your answers fairly short..not going on and on and on......

• Would you (or do you currently) attend a church that has women as a pastor, even as an assistant pastor?
• If you think it is not appropriate, can a man effectively lead an adult women's ministry?
• Should a woman lead a class or teach adults in any capacity?
• How high should a women be allowed to go in church leadership?
• How much decision making ability should a woman have in a church?

As a Pastor myself from what the Bible describes and a Overseer I will let the Bible talk.

1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Tit 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tit 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
This is a description of a male or female?

 

[jimmydiggs]

No, women cannot be pastors(in the conventional sense). Those who think they are, are disobeying. They are sinning, unrepentantly.

 

[jimmyjames]

I believe a woman can obtain any position in the church. Read Joel 2:28-29. I know because the bible says they can and from reading the bible I know God used women in Godly ways.

 

[crosspreacher]

No, the woman have not the right to be a pastor because the man was not deceived but the woman was and fell into transgression.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I believe a woman can obtain any position in the church. Read Joel 2:28-29. I know because the bible says they can and from reading the bible I know God used women in Godly ways.

Where do you see the command for women to be pastors?

[h=3]The Day of the Lord[/h][SUP]28 [/SUP]“And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

 

[SparkleEyes]

No, the woman have not the right to be a pastor because the man was not deceived but the woman was and fell into transgression.

crosspreacher - In the garden, Adam was just as deceived as Eve was because he ate also from the apple. Just because Eve took the first bite doesn't make her sin worse than Adam's sin.

 

[JaumeJ]

Why is it the same folks who say we are not to do our Father's will, that is His commands, issue new ones based on information from the Torah?

 

[tribesman]

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says".

From Corinthians 14:34, your thoughts?

This should be obeyed. That's God's thought.

 

[moretalman]

Kate913: I think what may be going on, with what Paul is saying about women not teaching, is in the context of the society in which Paul found himself. When women may have begun to do things & think about things a little differently. It was a transitionary period & during this transition, there is bound to be a little disorder, as the new order establishes itself. There was this dramatically different covenant after all, that did give women an expanded role. Paul said : There is neither Jew nor Gentile, bond or free, male nor female, for we all are one in Christ Jesus (Gal.3:28). Paul said that in an extraordinarily paternalistic 1st century society. Make no mistake about it, when the Jews heard this, they were renting their garments & gathering up stones (at least on the inside). So you could say Paul was among the first women libbers. Having said this I still believe a man (the Husband) should be head of the home. And I can't go along with our woman fighting on the front lines. Men & women are different, they always will be, they should be. Is there a new liberty for women under the new covenant? Yes. Are men & women now without distinction at all, & the only criterion to be followed in determining leadership roles is education & or seeming leadership abilities. I don't think so.
I think of Joyce Meyers , Kay Auther, June Hunt etc. who for me have legitimate God ordained teaching ministries, that I, a man, can get something out of. They're like big sisters & moms to me. Not men wanna be's. Are there "Jezebels"? I'm sure there are. We're still transitioning even today. We have to keep it balanced, use common sense & ... pray. God will show us the way. AMEN? AMEN.

 

[Cobus]

Greek "gunae" does not mean the same as English "woman". It means a woman living out a sexual role. That's who is not supposed to speak in church. When you read the Bible in Greek, a woman in ministry is never called a woman, but a pastoress, prophetess, etc. She ceases to be a gunae when she steps into the ministry. Even the wife of an apostle is not called a gunae, but an "alephe gunae", or Christian sister in the role of a wife. When the three women go to the tomb, they are called "women" until Jesus sends them to tell the apostles He is risen. They are not called women from that point on (since they are now evangelists), but are called "they".

I have tried my best to admire your KNOWLEDGE... but sometimes you press it beyond knowledge of God and right into ridicilous statements...

Like to ASSUME that the women were NOW EVANGELISTS.... Kenisys, what is the ONE thing ALL Apostles,Evangelists, prophets, pastors and teachers have in common? ONE THING? They are ALL FILLED with the Holy Spirit. Tell me, were these women filled with the Holy Spirit when they leaft the tomb? NO! So you are lieing my friend, they left that tomb the lost and wicket souls they were when exactly as they arrived there. Sinning and mortal humans.... But I agree it would change soon, for them and for the Apostles and deacons and evangelists TO BE....

When Jesus said those words to the women, they were still as lost as they were the day Jesus was born. Only AFTER penticost were God's apostles, evangelists and men APPOINTED... AFTER THEY WERE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

You see Ken this is why I hate it if people twist and add to the Word of God. If those women were to be appointed EVANGELISTS, do you not think God would have mentioned it somewhere? Yes He would, but since HE did NOT, you are twisting the truth to make a false statement and doctrine.... Deaconess/female servants/ male servants, can serve with GOOD works without saying ONE SINGLE WORD.. maybe that is why God says women confess their godliness with GOOD WORKS...

Stop twisting God's Word please, you are so well scholed and yet still so foolish in some things you type. You know I do this in love, please STAY IN THE TRUTH!