Women will be saved through Childbearing, if

[Whispered]

There is no issue if women teach fellow women in Church. The issue if a woman teaches or have authority (power) over men in Church setting. Because it is shameful according the Bible and it may lead to something like fornication as the Bible said in Revelation regarding the woman pastor, Jezebel.

Scripture?
Because Paul had women shepherds in his flock.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

It is just your opinion. The fact is in the Bible. But if you prefer more opinion. See wikipedia.


From Wikipedia.

The title "woman deacon" or "deaconess" appears in many documents from the early Church period, particularly in the East. Their duties were often different from that of male deacons; women deacons prepared adult women for baptism and they had a general apostolate to female Christians and catechumens (typically for the sake of modesty).[29] Women appear to have been ordained as deacons to serve the larger community until about the 6th century in the West.[30] Liturgies for the ordination of women deacons had similarities with as well as differences from those for male deacons.[31]

no it is not 'just her opinion'

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I tell you, I think there is more than one person here who have more than one person on an account they log into. If you get my meaning. Too many "members" sound alike. And when someone defends someone elses thoughts as if they know them personally, it is a clue I think we should take a look at.

haha

the thought has crossed my mind

 

[Dino246]

Because it is shameful according the Bible and it may lead to something like fornication as the Bible said in Revelation regarding the woman pastor, Jezebel.

The Bible says nothing whatsoever about Jezebel being a pastor. It says she was teaching; they aren't the same thing. Further, there is no indication in Scripture that a woman teaching a man would lead to fornication. It says that Jezebel was seducing. Male pastors have been known to seduce female parishioners as well; it's not a gender-based issue at all!

 

[Dino246]

It is just your opinion. The fact is in the Bible. But if you prefer more opinion. See wikipedia.


From Wikipedia.

The title "woman deacon" or "deaconess" appears in many documents from the early Church period, particularly in the East. Their duties were often different from that of male deacons; women deacons prepared adult women for baptism and they had a general apostolate to female Christians and catechumens (typically for the sake of modesty).[29] Women appear to have been ordained as deacons to serve the larger community until about the 6th century in the West.[30] Liturgies for the ordination of women deacons had similarities with as well as differences from those for male deacons.[31]

Phoebe was a deacon. That's in Scripture, and anyone's opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Phoebe was a deacon. That's in Scripture, and anyone's opinion on the matter is irrelevant.

Phoebe was a deacon not a pastor. Her opinion is that a woman deacon is a pastor/shepherd.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

No, if you believed that you'd accept what is taught about the Bible in the link I provided that you did not care to read.

You did not read the article either. Elders focus on the spiritual needs of the members while deacons focus on the physical needs. Elder is more like a pastor while deacon is just support. So elder is not the same as deacon.

 

[Dino246]

You did not read the article either. Elders focus on the spiritual needs of the members while deacons focus on the physical needs. Elder is more like a pastor while deacon is just support. So elder is not the same as deacon.

Where in Scripture did you get these "job descriptions"?

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Where in Scripture did you get these "job descriptions"?

You did not read the article she posted either?

 

[Dino246]

You did not read the article she posted either?

View attachment 209510

I don't read every post. The word "deacon" does not appear in most English translations of Acts 6, though the Greek word does appear behind "serve" in verse 2. It is reasonable to connect the role of deacon with serving, but as serving can be in any capacity, and the qualifications for deacons and for elders are very similar, it is also reasonable to conclude that the role which Paul had in mind was something more significant than merely serving people's physical needs.

 

[Dino246]

Many people argue that 1 Timothy 3:2 precludes women from being elders, because it says, "the husband of one wife". Obviously, a woman cannot be a husband. In 1 Timothy 3:12, Paul gives exactly the same qualification for deacons: "A deacon must be the husband of but one wife". That sounds like an open-and-shut case.

However, Phoebe, a female, is called a deacon in Romans 16:1. Given that a woman was a deacon, then that qualification for deacons cannot be restrictive to one gender, and must be conditional depending on the gender of the person in question. Further, it cannot reasonably be argued that the qualification for elders, being identical to that for deacons, should be enforced to the exclusion of females from that role.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

The source of the confusion is in the translation. The KJV did not say that Phoebe was a deacon but a servant. If other versions say that Phoebe was a deacon, it was implied as a servant position not a leader since there are many opinions on what is really is a deacon. If a deacon must be a husband of one wife, it is clear that when they translated the word that describe Phoebe, as deacon instead of servant then it is mistranslation because Phoebe is not qualified for deacon position. Translation is a big deal. When there is confusion, surely Satan is in the middle of it.

 

[Whispered]

You did not read the article either. Elders focus on the spiritual needs of the members while deacons focus on the physical needs. Elder is more like a pastor while deacon is just support. So elder is not the same as deacon.

"Either". I can tell by your reply above that you didn't read the article. It was obvious before but especially now. And just an aside, I read it. That's why I posted it so as to have it available to inform this thread.
Pasted below. Your definitions of Elder and Deacon do not come from scripture or the article. You should have read it, it can do nothing but good for your studies. Particularly, as concerns your reply and descriptions of elder and deacon respectively, I have put that in bold in the paste below.


Question: "Does the Bible teach the office of pastor?"
Answer: The word pastor comes from a Latin word which means “shepherd.” The New Testament presents two offices that constitute church leadership—elder/overseer and deacon. Paul lists the qualifications for elder/overseer in 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus 1:5–9. Notice that in the 1 Timothy passage, Paul refers to them as overseers (episcopos in the Greek), and in Titus he refers to them as elders (presbuteros in Greek). From this it can be concluded that there is one office with different designations. The word elder refers to the life experience of the office holder, while the word overseer emphasizes the responsibility of the office holder to watch over the congregation and meet their spiritual needs.

The second office is that of deacon, which is described in Acts 6:1–6. Paul outlines the qualifications of deacons in 1 Timothy 3:8–13. The deacon’s responsibility is to minister to the physical needs of the congregation, freeing up the elders to concentrate on their spiritual needs. In Acts 20:28, Paul said to the Ephesian elders, "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." Notice that Paul is telling the elders (office) to be shepherds (function or role) over the church.

In Ephesians 4:11, Paul identifies shepherding “pastors” as one function in the Church along with teaching, missionary work, evangelism, and prophecy. That this role is important is seen by the emphasis that Jesus puts on it in John 21:15–17 where Jesus charges Peter to feed and tend His sheep. How is a pastor/shepherd supposed to feed and tend the flock of God? He does this by being able to teach the flock the word of God (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:9) to bring the flock into maturity, and to be resistant to heresy. He is on guard for false teachers and warns those who stray that there are consequences to their belief and behavior.

In the New Testament, the words pastor, elder, and overseer can be used interchangeably, with each word providing a different emphasis on what contribution the leaders make to the Body of Christ. The three words come together in 1 Peter 5:1–2 where Peter exhorts elders to shepherd the flock of God and serve as overseers, caring for the flock as they wait for the Chief Shepherd.

The Book of 1st Peter chapter 5
Shepherd the Flock of God
5 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: 2 shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly;
​

 

[Whispered]

Many people argue that 1 Timothy 3:2 precludes women from being elders, because it says, "the husband of one wife". Obviously, a woman cannot be a husband. In 1 Timothy 3:12, Paul gives exactly the same qualification for deacons: "A deacon must be the husband of but one wife". That sounds like an open-and-shut case.

However, Phoebe, a female, is called a deacon in Romans 16:1. Given that a woman was a deacon, then that qualification for deacons cannot be restrictive to one gender, and must be conditional depending on the gender of the person in question. Further, it cannot reasonably be argued that the qualification for elders, being identical to that for deacons, should be enforced to the exclusion of females from that role.

Well said! It is a shame that in the faith that unifies the faithful in Christ there are still those who would drive a wedge and break that unity based on their predisposition to gender roles being an issue in God's service.
Phoebe was a servant of the church, a deacon, or "diakonos".
διάκονος (diakonos)
Strong: G1249
GK: G1356
one who renders service to another; an attendant, servant, Mt. 20:26; 22:13; Jn. 2:5, 9; one who executes a commission, a deputy, Rom. 13:4; Χριστοῦ, Θεοῦ, ἐν κυρίῳ, etc. a commissioned minister or preacher of the Gospel, 1 Cor. 3:5; 2 Cor. 6:4; a minister charged with an announcement or sentence, 2 Cor. 3:6; Gal. 2:17; Col. 1:23; a minister charged with a significant characteristic, Rom. 15:8; a servitor, devoted follower, Jn. 12:26; a deacon or deaconess, whose official duty was to superintend the alms of the Church, with other kindred services, Rom. 16:1; Phil. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:8, 12

The Book of Romans chapter 16

 

[Dino246]

The source of the confusion is in the translation.

Incorrect; the same Greek word is used of Phoebe in Romans 16:1 as of the deacons in Philippians 1:1, 1 Timothy 3 (several verses), and of the activity in Acts 6.

If other versions say that Phoebe was a deacon, it was implied as a servant position not a leader since there are many opinions on what is really is a deacon.

The multitude of opinions is not a reason for anything. You're arguing from silence.

If a deacon must be a husband of one wife, it is clear that when they translated the word that describe Phoebe, as deacon instead of servant then it is mistranslation because Phoebe is not qualified for deacon position. Translation is a big deal. When there is confusion, surely Satan is in the middle of it.

Where the original language is abundantly clear, translation is irrelevant. The Greek word is diakonon in Romans 16:1. The word in 1 Timothy 3 is exactly the same word ( though with a different ending denoting plurality).

 

[Whispered]

yeah like i said, the text actually says "brothers" not "brothers and sisters" - that's interpretive in NIV ((et al)) not literal.

thanks for confirming.

No, I didn't confirm, as you well know. 7 is correct to say you really do miss out on the meat of a discussion and the scripture when you twist peoples words around and then answer your own twists. And charge others with saying them.

ἀδελφός (adelphos)
Strong: G80
GK: G81
a brother, near kinsman or relative; one of the same nation or nature; one of equal rank and dignity; an associate, a member of the Christian community
https://billmounce.com/greek-dictionary/adelphos

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Incorrect; the same Greek word is used of Phoebe in Romans 16:1 as of the deacons in Philippians 1:1, 1 Timothy 3 (several verses), and of the activity in Acts 6.


The multitude of opinions is not a reason for anything. You're arguing from silence.


Where the original language is abundantly clear, translation is irrelevant. The Greek word is diakonon in Romans 16:1. The word in 1 Timothy 3 is exactly the same word ( though with a different ending denoting plurality).

"Either". I can tell by your reply above that you didn't read the article. It was obvious before but especially now. And just an aside, I read it. That's why I posted it so as to have it available to inform this thread.
Pasted below. Your definitions of Elder and Deacon do not come from scripture or the article. You should have read it, it can do nothing but good for your studies. Particularly, as concerns your reply and descriptions of elder and deacon respectively, I have put that in bold in the paste below.


Question: "Does the Bible teach the office of pastor?"
Answer: The word pastor comes from a Latin word which means “shepherd.” The New Testament presents two offices that constitute church leadership—elder/overseer and deacon. Paul lists the qualifications for elder/overseer in 1 Timothy 3:1–7 and Titus 1:5–9. Notice that in the 1 Timothy passage, Paul refers to them as overseers (episcopos in the Greek), and in Titus he refers to them as elders (presbuteros in Greek). From this it can be concluded that there is one office with different designations. The word elder refers to the life experience of the office holder, while the word overseer emphasizes the responsibility of the office holder to watch over the congregation and meet their spiritual needs.

The second office is that of deacon, which is described in Acts 6:1–6. Paul outlines the qualifications of deacons in 1 Timothy 3:8–13. The deacon’s responsibility is to minister to the physical needs of the congregation, freeing up the elders to concentrate on their spiritual needs. In Acts 20:28, Paul said to the Ephesian elders, "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood." Notice that Paul is telling the elders (office) to be shepherds (function or role) over the church.

In Ephesians 4:11, Paul identifies shepherding “pastors” as one function in the Church along with teaching, missionary work, evangelism, and prophecy. That this role is important is seen by the emphasis that Jesus puts on it in John 21:15–17 where Jesus charges Peter to feed and tend His sheep. How is a pastor/shepherd supposed to feed and tend the flock of God? He does this by being able to teach the flock the word of God (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:9) to bring the flock into maturity, and to be resistant to heresy. He is on guard for false teachers and warns those who stray that there are consequences to their belief and behavior.

In the New Testament, the words pastor, elder, and overseer can be used interchangeably, with each word providing a different emphasis on what contribution the leaders make to the Body of Christ. The three words come together in 1 Peter 5:1–2 where Peter exhorts elders to shepherd the flock of God and serve as overseers, caring for the flock as they wait for the Chief Shepherd.

The Book of 1st Peter chapter 5
Shepherd the Flock of God
5 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: 2 shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly;
​

Deacon is not a pastor from the article you posted. Whether Phoebe is a deacon or not, I cannot ignore the qualification of a deacon which is a married male (husband of one wife). Phoebe being a deacon is irrelevant to the issue that women are not allowed to teach or have authority over men in Church.

 

[Dino246]

Deacon is not a pastor from the article you posted. Whether Phoebe is a deacon or not, I cannot ignore the qualification of a deacon which is a married male (husband of one wife). Phoebe being a deacon is irrelevant to the issue that women are not allowed to teach or have authority over men in Church.

You apparently haven't read my post #271. Also, you're misrepresenting Paul's words to Timothy. He doesn't say, "Women are not allowed to teach or have authority over men". He says, "I do not allow a woman (singular) to teach or authentein a man." I deliberately did not translate the word for which you put "have authority over" because it is not (and is not related to) the word for authority (exousia).

The fact that Phoebe was a deacon commended by Paul trumps the restrictive view of the qualification. He would not have commended her if he thought that she had no business in such a role.

 

[JohnR7]

supply the scripture for that one

1 Corinthians 11:5
And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for it is just as if her head were shaved.

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

 

[JohnR7]

you think a prophecy given by ANYONE supercedes the word and if it is given in church the pastor is under it somehow?

swing and a miss, nice try though. I just go by the order the gifts are given in: "So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers" (Eph4:11) A pastor is above a teacher but below apostles, prophets & evangelists. Many do not realize that because they get puffed up with pride and think they are at the top. Just like people forget that Jesus teaches: "Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all." (Mark 9:35) Jesus set the example. Even He is the Son of God He humbled himself to be a Servant.