Women will be saved through Childbearing, if

[7seasrekeyed]

“And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.”

Thats precisely what I’m going to quote. That’s precisely what it says in plain language.

Furthermore, if you judge the fruits of women’s ordination there isn’t a single Christian church that has gone down that road without falling into either deep moral heresy, doctrinal heresy, or both.

and you know that because you have God's eyesight and are able to see and know all things?

don't sling scripture without a better understanding of what it is you are posting

and yes, that is what is says in plain language. I, Paul, do not permit

I don't think you know much about what women called by God can do and actually do

for the record, I would not choose a church with a woman pastor, even though I am a woman myself, but the Bible does not support the notion that women should shut up and suffocate

 

[7seasrekeyed]

*In the church setting*. Women cannot have authority over men in spiritual matters. Beth Moore is in rebellion against God. Deborah was not.

Beth Moore?

did I miss something?

she has bigger problems that what you think if she doesn't agree to what scripture states about homosexuality

 

[Dino246]

“And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.”

Thats precisely what I’m going to quote. That’s precisely what it says in plain language.

If you refuse to do your homework, that's your choice.

Furthermore, if you judge the fruits of women’s ordination there isn’t a single Christian church that has gone down that road without falling into either deep moral heresy, doctrinal heresy, or both.

There is no inherent causal connection between the two.

 

[Dino246]

Its all right in the Bible.

So you can't provide specific verses to support your statement.

A good place to start is when God gave over the unbelieving Jew to do what they should not of. Place a King as a abomination of desolation standing in the Holy unseen place of God's glory .A sign of rebellion. They that have no faith had become Jealous of the surrounding Pagan nations of the world as those who had no circular reasoning as a perfect law but rather chased after the philosophies of men .

That period of time was used as a parable, the signified tongue of God in regard to the things not seen according to the instructions (2 Corinthians 4:18) we are given for rightly dividing teaching how to walk by faith, mixing it in what we see or hear ..

Therefore restoring the government of faith to faith, the eternal to the eternal.

Unmitigated bafflegab.

The government in existence at the time of the Judges was the Mosaic Law, and Israel failed miserably in following it. Calling this "the government of God" is foolishness.

A king is not an abomination of desolation, period.

"Circular reasoning" is definitely not what you think it is. You are demonstrating a profound stubbornness, lack of humility, and resistance to learning. Why is it so hard for you to go and learn the proper meaning, and to use it consistently (or not at all)?

The time period of the Judges is not a parable.

 

[garee]

So you can't provide specific verses to support your statement.

Word for word, or as a dcoctrine that falls as rain like the parable below the signifed language of God ?

Like for instance. Verbatim. . I will restore the government of God back to the time period of Judges before the abomination of desolation was permitted because of the jealousy of the faithless Pagan nation ?

Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass

Signs are for the rebellious that refuse to hear prophecy (sola scriptura) .Prophecy to those who do walk by faith (the unseen)

That abomination of desolation was not the design of God that there would be Kings in Israel rather than walking by faith .

Remember the law signs is for those who rebel prophecy for those who believe.

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 1 Samuel 8:4-7

 

[7seasrekeyed]

bafflegab....makes me laugh every time

 

[Whispered]

Beth Moore?

did I miss something?

she has bigger problems that what you think if she doesn't agree to what scripture states about homosexuality

Beth Moore is a woman pastor who gained attention after the Calvinist pastor, MacArthur, who actually has dedicated sermons to criticizing even male pastors he has issues with, condemned her as a pastor and said that she should stop preaching and go home.
I've watched MacArthur deliver his sermons and I would suggest he take his own advice. Someone who dedicates time in God's word, as his parishoners think to do attending the church where he ministers, deserve God's word to be taught. Not MacArthur's scathing opinion of others!
Ms. Moore's response was right with scripture. Good for her, in that respect. I didn't know of her till all this started last year.

Moore responded saying, “Here’s the beautiful thing about it & I mean this with absolute respect. You don’t have to let me serve you. That gets to be your choice. Whether or not I serve Jesus is not up to you. Whether I serve you certainly is. One way or the other, I esteem you as my sibling in Christ.” https://www.crosswalk.com/faith/women/the-ugly-truth-the-macarthur-moore-controversy-reveals.html

Prior to the October fluff up, the issue of homosexuality was put to Ms. Moore, and that caused a stir in June when she allegedly refused to condemn Homosexuality.
Beth Moore Called Out Again, This Time Over Homosexuality

I can't help but recall that old saying that applies to celebrities and the tabloid junk. Don't worry because they're talking about you, worry when they stop.

 

[garee]

So you can't provide specific verses to support your statement.


Unmitigated bafflegab.

The government in existence at the time of the Judges was the Mosaic Law, and Israel failed miserably in following it. Calling this "the government of God" is foolishness.

A king is not an abomination of desolation, period.

"Circular reasoning" is definitely not what you think it is. You are demonstrating a profound stubbornness, lack of humility, and resistance to learning. Why is it so hard for you to go and learn the proper meaning, and to use it consistently (or not at all)?

The time period of the Judges is not a parable.

Not Judges, Kings. .Judges is the time period the government was restored to. The time of reformation is long gone.

Perhaps just remove the verses that do show it was a parable for the time present. Do you still think parables and tongues are not prophecy?

Do you have scripture to support your view of literalizing of the signified language of God using parables as figures of the unseen eternal which without he spoke not??

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation Hebrew 9: 8-10

 

[Whispered]

and you know that because you have God's eyesight and are able to see and know all things?

don't sling scripture without a better understanding of what it is you are posting

and yes, that is what is says in plain language. I, Paul, do not permit

I don't think you know much about what women called by God can do and actually do

for the record, I would not choose a church with a woman pastor, even though I am a woman myself, but the Bible does not support the notion that women should shut up and suffocate

If I was in a church and felt the woman pastor was called to preach I'd stay. The calling of God is not gender biased. We're told many times, God is not a respecter of persons. It stands then that God would not discriminate as to whom He would call to serve as a Shepherd to His flock. Especially in light of Paul stating there is no gender difference among the Ekklesia, there is no male, no female, we are all one in Christ Jesus.

Stating that and then pronouncing that a woman is not to preach , or that Paul does not permit a woman to preach, when there were Shepherds, Deaconess, in his churches and that he praised, as well as prophetesses, is what causes the confusion among the epistles wherein Paul does state women either are not to preach, or they're simply to remain quiet.
The Book of 1st Timothy chapter 2
The Book of 1st Corinthians chapter 14

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I just go by the order the gifts are given in: "So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers" (Eph4:11) A pastor is above a teacher but below apostles, prophets & evangelists.

There is no indication in Scripture that "a pastor is above a teacher but below apostles, prophets & evangelists". No gift ministry is "above" the other. It is the need of the body of believers that determines what gift ministry is given to the local body of believers. The only One Who is "above" any other believer in the body is the Head of the body ... the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ


The Lord Jesus Christ, as Head of His body (the church), gives the gift ministries as He determines.

His giving these ministries is dependent upon the need of the body. Jesus does not give the gift of an apostle when the body of believers needs a teacher. And He does not give an evangelist if the body of believers needs an apostle.

All the gift ministries are needed in order to fully equip the believers so each individual believer is furnished with what he/she needs in order to serve in whatever capacity builds up the body of Christ.

And along those lines, the pastor/teacher is needed at the time the body of believers gathers to hear the message. But hours before the pastor/teacher teaches, the need of the body is the person(s) who set up the meeting. So the set up people are "above" the pastor/teacher before the believers even get to the meeting place. After the church meeting is over, the person(s) who pick up trash and vacuum are "above" the pastor/teacher.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

You will believe as you wish. That you separate the Ekklesia due to gender and disqualify a woman from the office of Deacon, preacher, Shepherd, and contrary to the actual facts of the matter, is between you and God. He who knows, there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

There is neither male nor female but it does not mean that anyone can be a pastor or church leader. There are clear instructions on the qualifications but people chose to ignore them.

The term Diakonos has no female counterpart. And deaconess came later which means wives of deacons. Phoebe was a servant and the term diakono was applied to her because there is no female word for it at that time. But according to context she was a servant. How else can you explain the instruction that a deacon must be a married male?

 

[Whispered]

There is neither male nor female but it does not mean that anyone can be a pastor or church leader. There are clear instructions on the qualifications but people chose to ignore them.

The term Diakonos has no female counterpart. And deaconess came later which means wives of deacons. Phoebe was a servant and the term diakono was applied to her because there is no female word for it at that time. But according to context she was a servant. How else can you explain the instruction that a deacon must be a married male?

How could we the Ekklesia ever genuinely argue that we know God would never call a woman to be a Deacon, Shepherd of the flock, (pastor), or prophet?
If we ascribe trust to Paul's words in scripture as leading of the Holy Spirit and or his learned opinion, then why do we ignore his statement that there are no male nor females, because we are all one in Christ Jesus, only to say that as pertains to that oneness he refers to, it all comes to an end in matters of the office of service to God?


Deaconess is the feminine form of Deacon.
Phoebe appears only once in the scripture and she is praised as being a crucial member of the church.
The Book of Romans chapter 16 ESV & Mounce versions
Greek:servant diakonos
Footnote
Or deaconess

Deaconess would not be a title reserved for the wife of a Deacon simply because the application and duty of a Deacon, per your argument women would not serve in that capacity, would allow one to infer she has the same authority as her Deacon husband if she bore the title Deaconess simply due to marriage.

As to qualifications, that is also in scripture and pertains to both men and women. Women put into the office of Deacon, as was the case in the first 1000 years of the church, were said to be members of the Diaconate .
The Book of Ist Timothy chapter 3 (NAS 8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain, 9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach. 11 Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.


Women Deacons

 

[Dino246]

Not Judges, Kings. .Judges is the time period the government was restored to. The time of reformation is long gone.

I understood you. Instead of providing the requested scriptural support, you have changed the subject... again.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

How could we the Ekklesia ever genuinely argue that we know God would never call a woman to be a Deacon, Shepherd of the flock, (pastor), or prophet?
If we ascribe trust to Paul's words in scripture as leading of the Holy Spirit and or his learned opinion, then why do we ignore his statement that there are no male nor females, because we are all one in Christ Jesus, only to say that as pertains to that oneness he refers to, it all comes to an end in matters of the office of service to God?


Deaconess is the feminine form of Deacon.
Phoebe appears only once in the scripture and she is praised as being a crucial member of the church.
The Book of Romans chapter 16 ESV & Mounce versions
Greek:servant diakonos
Footnote
Or deaconess

Deaconess would not be a title reserved for the wife of a Deacon simply because the application and duty of a Deacon, per your argument women would not serve in that capacity, would allow one to infer she has the same authority as her Deacon husband if she bore the title Deaconess simply due to marriage.

As to qualifications, that is also in scripture and pertains to both men and women. Women put into the office of Deacon, as was the case in the first 1000 years of the church, were said to be members of the Diaconate .
The Book of Ist Timothy chapter 3 (NAS 8 Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain, 9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach. 11 Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things. 12 Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.


Women Deacons

Deaconess is the wife of a deacon per KJV version. Which version is right? Probably the one that does not contradict with the qualification of deacons which is must be a married male.

1 Timothy 3:11 KJV

Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

 

[Dino246]

Word for word, or as a dcoctrine that falls as rain like the parable below the signifed language of God ?

Like for instance. Verbatim. . I will restore the government of God back to the time period of Judges before the abomination of desolation was permitted because of the jealousy of the faithless Pagan nation ?

It's funny when you use words and terms that you obviously don't understand.

Signs are for the rebellious that refuse to hear prophecy (sola scriptura) .Prophecy to those who do walk by faith (the unseen)

That abomination of desolation was not the design of God that there would be Kings in Israel rather than walking by faith .

Remember the law signs is for those who rebel prophecy for those who believe.

That isn't consistent with Scripture, but you keep saying it anyway.

 

[Dino246]

Deaconess is the wife of a deacon per KJV version. Which version is right? Probably the one that does not contradict with the qualification of deacons which is must be a married male.

1 Timothy 3:11 KJV

Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

You would do well to check a modern translation. "Deaconess" has no support in the Greek; only "deacon" does. The KJV translators likely thought that women could not be deacons, so they made up a word.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

You would do well to check a modern translation. "Deaconess" has no support in the Greek; only "deacon" does. The KJV translators likely thought that women could not be deacons, so they made up a word.

They did not make up a word. They just said wives of deacons.

 

[Dino246]

They did not make up a word. They just said wives of deacons.

... for which there is no specific word in Greek. Because there is no specific word in Greek, there is no justification for using a specific word for "wives of deacons" in English.

 

[Tinkerbell725]

... for which there is no specific word in Greek. Because there is no specific word in Greek, there is no justification for using a specific word for "wives of deacons" in English.

But one thing is clear though. A deacon must be a married male.

 

[Dino246]

But one thing is clear though. A deacon must be a married male.

You're going in circles. We've dealt with that already: Phoebe, a female, was a deacon.