Are Holy Spirit baptisms claims provable?

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Waggles

Waggles

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Man, unbelievers sure post a lot of rubbish and plain gobbledegook
on this thread.
Thank God I received not only the Comforter when I was baptised
in the Holy Spirit but he is also the Spirit of truth.
 
Gabriel2020

Gabriel2020

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Ok, the kingdom of God is always opened to everyone that wish to come, but you must do as the scripture tells you to do. Be patient and bare with those that are unlearned where you must reveal your knowledge of God to them. God bless.
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

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#283
Apr 18, 2017
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Gabriel2020 said:
Ok, the kingdom of God is always opened to everyone that wish to come, but you must do as the scripture tells you to do. Be patient and bare with those that are unlearned where you must reveal your knowledge of God to them. God bless.
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Thanks, Gabriel2020, I just read that the other day in Roman 15. :)
 
Deade

Deade

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Well then tell me this scripture is only for the first century Apostles.

John 14:12: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

flashing-super-emoticon.gif

 
DJ2

DJ2

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CS1 said:
placed back for DJ2 i hope he is feeling better now :)

here is the deleted post :

Originally Posted by DJ2

Actually the verses do not address them, I'm sorry you see what is not there.

The question is not does the Christian "need" to prove their baptism of the Holy Spirit bout "can" the Christian prove it. You are addressing questions not asked. We may very well "trust HIM to do it" but that is not the OP question. This is another example of your bizarre replies that I struggle to understand. You ignore the question and ramble on about your own version of the question. Even your example is puzzling. John the Baptist asked for validation that Jesus was the promised Christ. Jesus "proved" to John that He was the Christ by His actions. Jesus did not tell John to "trust HIM" but offered validation.



then we are done :)
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Thank you, I do feel much better.
 
Donmech

Donmech

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hornetguy said:
I think the OP is a legitimate question... are there tangible proofs that can show that there has been some sort of "baptism in the Spirit".

Personally, I don't think there are, in MOST cases. I believe that we receive the Spirit upon our belief in Jesus, and our acceptance of him as our Savior, and our obedience in baptism (immersion)... where we die to our old self, and are raised up out of the water as a new creation.

I don't look for any "signs" of someone receiving the Spirit... Jesus told us it would happen, and I believe him.

Any gifts of the Spirit will come after that event, at the Spirit's discretion.

The fruits of the indwelling Spirit will become more and more evident as the believer matures in their walk in the light.

I think the OP would be just as valid in asking if there are any tangible evidences of "being saved". It's something that was promised to us, but it's not promised to come with any outward "sign".
How could someone "prove" that they were saved?
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Conceder 1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life,(been saved) because we love the brethren, he that loveth not his brother abideth in death. If we have a sincere love for the things of God and our brethren in Christ, might that prove our salvation?
 
Bladerunner

Bladerunner

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#288
DJ2 said:
Can any of us prove or disprove personal/individual claims of Holy Spirit baptisms? Should such claims hold any weight in this forum?

Please note: I am speaking of personal or individual claims, not the biblical existence of Holy Spirit baptism.
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I think you need to understand the word 'Baptism'. There are at least seven in the Bible.

If you are a RCC follower, they have three Baptism meanings.
 
DJ2

DJ2

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#289
Donmech said:
Conceder 1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life,(been saved) because we love the brethren, he that loveth not his brother abideth in death. If we have a sincere love for the things of God and our brethren in Christ, might that prove our salvation?
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How do you suggest we test our "sincere love"?
 
DJ2

DJ2

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#290
Bladerunner said:
I think you need to understand the word 'Baptism'. There are at least seven in the Bible.

If you are a RCC follower, they have three Baptism meanings.
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Regardless of how many ways someone can define the word "baptism" the question reminds. Can we prove or disprove personal/individual claims of Holy Spirit baptism?
 
Donmech

Donmech

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#291
DJ2 said:
How do you suggest we test our "sincere love"?
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Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. (Romans 12:9)

Paul says we can recognize true love by the way we hate evil and cling to good.

Love requires us to have a deep abiding passion for the truth, knowing it , embracing it, obeying it. Just as God hates evil and loves good so should those who know God will love and hate the same things He does.


So how can we know if we truly love others and God as we should? Believers find themselves loving whatever the scripture says is true and good, while also hating everything that is false and evil.
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are just , whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report ; if there be any virtue , and there be any praise, think on these things. (Philippians 4:8)

Jesus showed us what love looks like with His own life.
A. Do I sincerely love God with all my heart? Like Jesus, we should hate any false beliefs or desires that compete for first place in our hearts.
B. Do I sincerely love God with all my soul? Christ displayed this deep intense love at the Garden of Gethsemane, when He experienced deep grief at the prospect of taking the world's sins upon Himself. (Luke 22:42-44)
C. Do I sincerely love God with all my mind? What we allow to devour and control our thoughts shows what we truly care about.
D. Do I sincerely love God with all my strength? Is all my energy being utilized to satisfy my own will and desires rather than God's will? (John 18:37)
God tells us in His word how to love Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. Hate what God hates and love what God loves. If we can honestly look at our lives and apply these truths, I believe this would sincerely test our love for God.
 
DJ2

DJ2

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#292
Donmech said:
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. (Romans 12:9)

Paul says we can recognize true love by the way we hate evil and cling to good.

Love requires us to have a deep abiding passion for the truth, knowing it , embracing it, obeying it. Just as God hates evil and loves good so should those who know God will love and hate the same things He does.


So how can we know if we truly love others and God as we should? Believers find themselves loving whatever the scripture says is true and good, while also hating everything that is false and evil.
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are just , whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report ; if there be any virtue , and there be any praise, think on these things. (Philippians 4:8)

Jesus showed us what love looks like with His own life.
A. Do I sincerely love God with all my heart? Like Jesus, we should hate any false beliefs or desires that compete for first place in our hearts.
B. Do I sincerely love God with all my soul? Christ displayed this deep intense love at the Garden of Gethsemane, when He experienced deep grief at the prospect of taking the world's sins upon Himself. (Luke 22:42-44)
C. Do I sincerely love God with all my mind? What we allow to devour and control our thoughts shows what we truly care about.
D. Do I sincerely love God with all my strength? Is all my energy being utilized to satisfy my own will and desires rather than God's will? (John 18:37)
God tells us in His word how to love Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. Hate what God hates and love what God loves. If we can honestly look at our lives and apply these truths, I believe this would sincerely test our love for God.
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It seems you are suggesting that we are to judge our own hearts and intentions? Do we not all do this in some fashion already? Is this truly the way? Does not reason play a part in this discussion? Does not the lack of evidence hold any weight when dealing in such obvious matters? Does not claims without merit mean anything?
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#293
DJ2 said:
It seems you are suggesting that we are to judge our own hearts and intentions? Do we not all do this in some fashion already? Is this truly the way? Does not reason play a part in this discussion? Does not the lack of evidence hold any weight when dealing in such obvious matters? Does not claims without merit mean anything?
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You are seeking that which is not for you. Men do not and are not required to prove Holy Spirit baptism. Men do not prove the Holy Spirit moving in their hearts.

It is natural men who seek proof not Spiritual men. Unbelievers seek for God to prove Himself. Unbelievers tempt God by demanding proof of that which can only be seen by faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
DJ2

DJ2

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#294
notuptome said:
You are seeking that which is not for you. Men do not and are not required to prove Holy Spirit baptism. Men do not prove the Holy Spirit moving in their hearts.

It is natural men who seek proof not Spiritual men. Unbelievers seek for God to prove Himself. Unbelievers tempt God by demanding proof of that which can only be seen by faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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You are fooling no one. I am not asking for proof of what moves in the hearts of people. Stick with the issue at hand. I am only asking for an explanation as the why no prima facie in regards to the claims of physical supernatural that have and are still being made. Can you grasp the difference?

I am not asking for proof of God, I am looking for an explanation as to why there is no prima facie in regards to that which should (if true) be self-evident.

I believe the answer is quite obvious but not popular.
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#295
DJ2 said:
You are fooling no one. I am not asking for proof of what moves in the hearts of people. Stick with the issue at hand. I am only asking for an explanation as the why no prima facie in regards to the claims of physical supernatural that have and are still being made. Can you grasp the difference?

I am not asking for proof of God, I am looking for an explanation as to why there is no prima facie in regards to that which should (if true) be self-evident.

I believe the answer is quite obvious but not popular.
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You are not looking for anything. You have an axe to grind and you are not going to be persuaded to wise up about how poorly this reflects on you and others who might wish examine the subject.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
trofimus

trofimus

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Aug 17, 2015
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#296
notuptome said:
It is natural men who seek proof not Spiritual men. Unbelievers seek for God to prove Himself. Unbelievers tempt God by demanding proof of that which can only be seen by faith.
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Blind faith is believing without any proof/evidence.

Unbelief is not believing even when there is an evidence or when there is none.

Christian faith is believing based on an evidence.

---

Evidence does not have to be physical/seen by eyes. But it must be there and it must be solid. Not just feelings, emotions etc.
 
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notuptome

notuptome

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#297
trofimus said:
Blind faith is believing without any proof/evidence.

Unbelief is not believing even when there is an evidence or when there is none.

Christian faith is believing based on an evidence.

---

Evidence does not have to be physical/seen by eyes. But it must be there and it must be solid. Not just feelings, emotions etc.
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Christian faith is believing Gods word, the bible, as the Holy Spirit reveals Gods righteousness, man's sinfulness and the absolute certainty of Gods judgment pronounced on sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
DJ2

DJ2

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#298
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#298
notuptome said:
You are seeking that which is not for you. Men do not and are not required to prove Holy Spirit baptism. Men do not prove the Holy Spirit moving in their hearts.

It is natural men who seek proof not Spiritual men. Unbelievers seek for God to prove Himself. Unbelievers tempt God by demanding proof of that which can only be seen by faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Unbelievers tempt God by demanding proof of that which can only be seen by faith.​
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So physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit can only be seen by faith? Is that your point?

I eagerly await your non-answer.
 
trofimus

trofimus

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notuptome said:
Christian faith is believing Gods word, the bible, as the Holy Spirit reveals Gods righteousness, man's sinfulness and the absolute certainty of Gods judgment pronounced on sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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It is.

But it must be based on evidence. There must be good reasons why to believe the Bible.
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#300
DJ2 said:
So physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit can only be seen by faith? Is that your point?

I eagerly await your non-answer.
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Well why don't you specify exactly what the minimum requirement would be for you to be able to verify that the event is within your parameters?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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