A True New Testament Church

[Elin]

The intention of the OP subject is about those who consider the correct church one that only consults the New Testament, with hardly any reference to the Old Testament disregarding the two are one Book, one Word, and augment understanding of each other.

The OP has been changed to the original converts, who had absolutely no access to the New Testament, the writings were either in progress, or yet to come, and the New Testament had a long time coming to be compiled as we know it today.

Bottom line, I am recommending all who walk in the light of Jesus Christ to learn all about Him from the Old Testament and the new. It is fulfilling and completes the Holy Spirit believer.

Yes, the OT types and shadows give details regarding him not found in the NT.

However, those details are seen and understood only in the light of the NT.

 

[weakness]

One of the things Jesus did with his disciples was to shew them or reveal to them everything concerning him in the law, the psalms, and the prophets, That they all spoke of him.

 

[Elin]

Yes!

I didn´t know that about David (Thanks for the insight).

I will be saved by GRACE, not for my beliefs, just by the belief God had on me, throgh His Beloved Son.

You do understand that God does not believe in us,
that there is nothing in us of ourselves for him to believe in,
that we are just clay jars in which is the treasure of his grace and work.

All that we have and and all we are that are pleasing to him are from him, not ourselves.

It is God's own work in us that delights him.

God does not have faith in us, he has faith in his own work in us.
Rather, it is we that have faith in God.

 

[JaumeJ]

These words are beautiful from you. I hope everyone sees and hears them in the Holy Spirit.

A verse, one of many on the subject, that has rested my heart, mind and soul on "The Fathr, The Son and the Holy Spirit" is in Isaias 9. It is not a lot to read. I refer to where it foretells unto us a child is born. It goes on to say He would be called Counselor, a name for the Holy Spirit, then Everlasting Father, and we all know He is our Father, and the Ruler of Peace or Prince of Peace Who is Jesus our Savior. You think this sounds weird, well, it does, but we must allow our presently mysterious Father, my humble brother, to have some mystery about Him.

So according to Isaias, the Child to be born would actually be called the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit. This is an explosive revelation to our hearts and souls, and it does not explain a thing, but by faith we know our Savior is Jesus, and in the Old Testament God the Father says several times, I am your savior. It is so uplifting and so powerful from on high, amen.

Yahweh, God, keep you and hold you close forever. You know grace, for it is eloquent in your words. Thank you brother.

Yes!

I didn´t know that about David (Thanks for the insight).

I will be saved by GRACE, not for my beliefs, just by the belief God had on me, throgh His Beloved Son.

 

[RedTent]

Most of the people who say they are new covenant Christians are like Christians with one hand tied behind their back. They can't even read the gospels correctly, for the gospels are filled with information from the old covenant and they deny that covenant. Even the epistles have much of the old in them. Think! of how limited their scriptures are.

 

[dcontroversal]

yeah, I TRIED to read all of those quote on quote thingies...........and all I got was......

View attachment 67182


............still, his comment WOULD be a good comeback to all the evolutionistnutties.....

HAHAAHA that's funny!

 

[dcontroversal]

Very true.............when the Apostles were establishing the Church, they were preaching from the Scriptures of the Old Testament, and the Gospel preached by Jesus Christ. They did not have a New Testament Bible as we today have.

There is much to be learned from the entire Bible, for it is ALL THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD.

I agree and lest we all forget, Israel is called the (assembly) (church) of the firstborn in the wilderness and unto Israel first was given the oracles of God.

 

[JaumeJ]

This brings to mind when the Good Shepherd teaches us about His flock, the Children of Israel, and then about that other flock, the nations, and that He was going to make of the two, one flock. This would make all the Israel of God, Yahweh.

I agree and lest we all forget, Israel is called the (assembly) (church) of the firstborn in the wilderness and unto Israel first was given the oracles of God.

 

[zone]

Romans 8:2, "Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death."

The Law we are free of or dead to is the law of sin and death, not Yahweh's Law:

Romans 7:7, "7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet."

Romans 7:14, "For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin."

The parable about a womans husband dying is about being dead to sin not dead to righteous Instruction.

"For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. - Gal 2:19

 

[zone]

In posting the OP I fully realize the difference between what is alive and what is dead. All one need do is learn from our Savior by His Word and by His deed. We all should know the difference between the bad laws and the good, this takes some discernment, at least enough discernment to know what is being said or read. If we know the difference, it is because we live in grace. Had you understood what is posted you would have understood we all are living in grace, and again this is not license to sin. If you believe sin is dead because of living in grace, I am afraid you do not understand much. I believe people do not understand anything between Genesis and Malachi if they believe we are not to obey Yahweh, God.

Eze 20:25
Moreover also I gave them statutes that were not good, and ordinances wherein they should not live;

18"For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19"For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. 20"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me - Gal 2

 

[zone]

Here are a few questions to consider........

If God says to do this, or don't do that.......is that a Law? Yes or No..........if you answer Yes.......

Is Jesus God? God the Son? Yes or No...........if you answer Yes.............

If Jesus says to do this or don't do that.......is that a Law? Yes or No...........if you answer Yes.....

then I have to say that there are a whole bunch of folks who are not keeping His Law........a whole bunch.....

View attachment 67020

John 13:1) 1 It was just before the festival of Pesach, and Yeshua knew that the time had come for him to pass from this world to the Father. Having loved his own people in the world, he loved them to the end. 2 They were at supper, and the Adversary had already put the desire to betray him into the heart of Y'hudah Ben-Shim`on from K'riot. 3 Yeshua was aware that the Father had put everything in his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God. 4 So he rose from the table, removed his outer garments and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5 Then he poured some water into a basin and began to wash the feet of the talmidim and wipe them off with the towel wrapped around him. 6 He came to Shim`on Kefa, who said to him, "Lord! You are washing my feet?" 7 Yeshua answered him, "You don't understand yet what I am doing, but in time you will understand." 8 "No!" said Kefa, "You will never wash my feet!" Yeshua answered him, "If I don't wash you, you have no share with me." 9 "Lord," Shim`on Kefa replied, "not only my feet, but my hands and head too!" 10 Yeshua said to him, "A man who has had a bath doesn't need to wash, except his feet -- his body is already clean. And you people are clean, but not all of you." 11 (He knew who was betraying him; this is why he said, "Not all of you are clean.") 12 After he had washed their feet, taken back his clothes and returned to the table, he said to them, "Do you understand what I have done to you? 13 You call me `Rabbi' and `Lord,' and you are right, because I am. 14 Now if I, the Lord and Rabbi, have washed your feet, you also should wash each other's feet. 15 For I have set you an example, so that you may do as I have done to you.

i would say - there are a whole bunch of ppl who don't live near the Mediterranean; who don't walk around in sandals getting their feet dirty; who don't have servants who wash their feet as a custom before entering the house as a guest; because - they wear shoes and remove their shoes before they enter a home.

the whole point is being a servant.
and that the servant is not greater than the master.
as for His disciples - we aren't the ones He was with then; He was making a greater point.

 

[zone]

I read constantly of how all the additions to our understanding means that they were not additions at all, that all of God before is replaced, fulfilled in the sense that now that is done with, don't let it in your minds.

no you don't. nobody here talks or thinks that way. you keep making the accusation though.
but you practice a few jewish rituals and read the OT (like we don't? LOL) and you're all that.

In the book of Daniel and the book of Revelations we are told what this kind of thinking leads to.

you know neither book.

 

[zone]

I liken this "new testament only" concept to infatuation rather than real love. For one can be Infatuated and think their feelings run deep, but infatuation is not love at all. How can one develop a real and lasting love for the Father and Son without understanding?

oh aren't you special.
start a thread on the OT.
we'll have a nice long discussion - you'll be left in the dust - since you don't understand that the NEW interprets the old.

so i liken all this "i'm so religious (i hope the jews notice) because i study the OT" to a teenager on a bike with training wheels.

start a thread thou OT scholar....who knows troooooo luv.

oh puke

 

[p_rehbein]

i would say - there are a whole bunch of ppl who don't live near the Mediterranean; who don't walk around in sandals getting their feet dirty; who don't have servants who wash their feet as a custom before entering the house as a guest; because - they wear shoes and remove their shoes before they enter a home.

the whole point is being a servant.
and that the servant is not greater than the master.
as for His disciples - we aren't the ones He was with then; He was making a greater point.

The whole point is Christian "humility."

(just saying)

That being said...........you didn't answer the questions did you?

The whole point of water baptism is........................................................

The whole point of Communion is..........................................................

Yet there are those who routinely practice water baptism AND Communion.

If I accept your logic concerning foot washing...........then how does it not apply to those two?

 

[BradC]

no you don't. nobody here talks or thinks that way. you keep making the accusation though.
but you practice a few jewish rituals and read the OT (like we don't? LOL) and you're all that.



you know neither book.

And can know neither book when you operate from the wrong premise as you do and in doing so you eliminate Israel as a nation and people from the promises of God that will fulfilled in the second coming of Christ.

 

[zone]

The whole point is Christian "humility."

(just saying)

That being said...........you didn't answer the questions did you?

The whole point of water baptism is.............COMMANDED: forgiveness of sins: death; burial; resurrection; clean conscience toward (from) God.

The whole point of Communion is...............INSTITUTED BY CHRIST FOR ALL BELIEVERS:
New Covenant sign; taken as often as we come together

Yet there are those who routinely practice water baptism AND Communion.

If I accept your logic concerning foot washing...........then how does it not apply to those two?

wash feet if you want to.
or just walk the walk.

 

[zone]

And can know neither book when you operate from the wrong premise as you do and in doing so you eliminate Israel as a nation and people from the promises of God that will fulfilled in the second coming of Christ.

"Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC"

...

the promises were fulfilled IN CHRIST; BY CHRIST at the First Coming.
all that remains is eternity.

soooo, it is you who excluded Israel from EVERYTHING.
i know the promises were and are FULFILLED IN CHRIST.

 

[homwardbound]

To put it simply, the New Testament Church (NTC) is the true New Testament Church and I am basing my remarks on that fact. Some background information would be useful.

The original NTC was known as "The Way." It was considered an offshoot of Judaism (they still met in the temple and still followed the dictates of Jewish Law) and one has to remember that this was not the first time a "messiah" had been proclaimed to rescue the Jews from Roman oppression.

As the OP said, there was no NT, only the Old which they would have been very familiar with. Their NT was the three years that they spent with Jesus whilst on earth. That is what would have been passed onto the converts to The Way. Note that they were first called Christians at Antioch and the designation was one of derision, not approbation.

If there was no NT, one has to ask why and how the church was so powerful and carried the good news of Jesus so successfully.

First, I would like to suggest that the NTC was birthed in prayer and power. They waited in the upper room for the coming Holy Spirit and prayed whilst waiting.

Second, the message on the day of Pentecost was unequivocal. Repent and be baptised for the remission of sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Third, their defining factor was how much they loved one another.

Fourth. they met together daily in small groups.

Fifth. the focus of everything was a risen Lord.

Sixth, they believed in and exercised the supernatural.

Seventh, the believers died daily.

Eight, death was always around the corner.

Nine, they were united.

Ten, No one was paid to be a Christian.

And by this are not the believers made citizens of Heaven, where the true Tabernacle is at, made by God and not man?
Just curious if you see this as well?

 

[homwardbound]

Hebrews 8:1 What we are saying is this: Christ, whose priesthood we have just described, is our High Priest and is in heaven at the place of greatest honor next to God himself.
Hebrews 8:2 He ministers in the temple in heaven, the true place of worship built by the Lord and not by human hands
Hebrews 8:3 And since every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices, Christ must make an offering too.
Hebrews 8:4 The sacrifice he offers is far better than those offered by the earthly priests. (But even so, if he were here on earth he wouldn’t even be permitted to be a priest because down here the priests still follow the old Jewish system of sacrifices.)
Hebrews 8:5 Their work is connected with a mere earthly model of the real tabernacle in heaven; for when Moses was getting ready to build the tabernacle, God warned him to follow exactly the pattern of the heavenly tabernacle as shown to him on Mount Sinai.
Hebrews 8:6 But Christ, as a Minister in heaven, has been rewarded with a far more important work than those who serve under the old laws because the new agreement that he passes on to us from God contains far more wonderful promises.
Hebrews 8:7 The old agreement didn’t even work. If it had, there would have been no need for another to replace it.
Hebrews 8:8 But God himself found fault with the old one, for he said, “The day will come when I will make a new agreement with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.
Hebrews 8:9 This new agreement will not be like the old one I gave to their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; they did not keep their part in that agreement, so I had to cancel it.
Hebrews 8:10 But this is the new agreement I will make with the people of Israel, says the Lord: I will write my laws in their minds so that they will know what I want them to do without my even telling them, and these laws will be in their hearts so that they will want to obey them, and I will be their God and they shall be my people.
Hebrews 8:11 And no one then will need to speak to his friend or neighbor or brother, saying, ‘You, too, should know the Lord,’ because everyone, great and small, will know me already.
Hebrews 8:12 And I will be merciful to them in their wrongdoings, and I will remember their sins no more.”
Hebrews 8:13 God speaks of these new promises, of this new agreement, as taking the place of the old one; for the old one is out of date now and has been put aside forever

 

[unclefester]

And can know neither book when you operate from the wrong premise as you do and in doing so you eliminate Israel as a nation and people from the promises of God that will fulfilled in the second coming of Christ.

You don't see it in your own words ... but many of us do. Again ... the bible chronicles the history of national Israel ... but is primarily a book dealing with spiritual Israel ... fulfilled entirely in the God/person of Jesus Christ. Flesh keeps it's focus on earthly Jerusalem. The Spirit points us to Christ and the New Jerusalem in the heavenlies.

"you eliminate Israel as a nation and people from the promises of God that will fulfilled in the second coming of Christ."

*you eliminate Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour now/today from the promises of God that were fulfilled entirely in the first coming of Christ*

Christ is the fulfillment of all things promised. Not some strip of land in the middle east.