A True New Testament Church

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

To you the towering edifice was built and the foundation destroyed, leaving the towering edifice "floating" on nothing.

Where is it written that the old covenant and the law of Moses are the foundation of either the new covenant or kingdom of GOD? Those were the foundation of the natural nation of Israel. Christ and his apostles are the foundation of the new covenant and kingdom of GOD.

Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:19-22

For no one is able to lay another foundation than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 3:11​

 

[Elin]

e=john832]

Christ was "the promise", in the old testament. He who has an ear let him hear. Eve's generation hoped for a redeemer.
New testament only is a shallow understanding of God's grace and love, it's like reading the last chapter in a novel,
the icing on the cake with no cake.

So, is the foundation deep within the earth the reason for the magnificent towering edifice of offices, etc. above ground,

or is the magnificent towering edifice above ground the reason for the foundation?

To you, the magnificent towering edifice is just window dressing for the foundation, like icing is for the cake.

< sigh >

To you the towering edifice was built and the foundation destroyed, leaving the towering edifice "floating" on nothing.

Non-responsive.

Assertions without demonstration are meritless.

Assertions without demonstration are meritless.

Non-responsive.

And try to keep up with the demonstrations. . .

 

[homwardbound]

Today, reading in the forum I came across the expression "a true New Testament Church."

I suppose there is such a thing today, but I hope all who call on the name of Yeshua, Jesus, are versed enough in the history of our progress from the time our Lord walked His earth to know the original converts to the faith of Abraham did not have a New Testament, and it is probably a good thing for them they did not.

You see the pagans, the nations, had to learn the concept of what a sin is. In order to learn this they were taught by the Twelve plus Paul from the Torah, the Writings, and the Prophets.

They had to understand about atonement, and exactly what they needed to atone for. They were taught all about the history of the faith of Abraham and the law, for sin is transgressing the law.

They also learned of all the prophesies of Yeshua, Jesus, in these same writings beginning in Genesis all the way through to Malachi. It must have been fascinating and glorious to learn all that the Jews knew and much they did not for not accepting Messiah. These people were of the faith of Abraham, from that other flock our Lord taught us of which He was to have brought together with His original flock. We are now one with our Lord and the faith of Abraham.

The Holy Scripture comprising the New Testament is the recounting of how Yeshua, Jesus, fulfilled all the prophesies of Messiah and all the teachings from the Law. As per the law, He completed the law for all who call upon Him in Spirit and Truth by taking the curse of the law with Him on the cross. That curse died as far as we are concerned, but it still exists for those who are not saved by
Yeshua, Jesus, and His great sacrifice on that cross.

That curse, of course, is punishment and death. That curse being destroyed for all who are saved by the Blood of the Lamb, providing they do not turn to wanton sin, no longer exists. This does not mean we have license to sin. Because sin is breaking the law, we are still expected to live by the laws although we will never be perfect until the work begun in us by God is finished for we perfect nothing. God does all the perfecting. Meanwhile, sorry warm and fuzzies, we are to obey the Father. To say the law is dead is the same as saying we may break it with impunity. This is a lie of the enemy.

What child, good child, does not fear his parents to the point of obeying them? Only an evil child, for it is written even a child is known by his conduct. Also, fear of God is a stepping stone to His perfect love because once we have experienced His love, that fear goes away.

The New Testament part of the Book, for it is one book, elaborates on the fulfilling of all righteousnous by Yeshua, Jesus, by many reliable witnesses and the apostles, and it contains the Gospel or Good News delivered by Him for all who are saved.

A good New Testament Church will teach all of the Word, amen.
　

Being in unredeemed flesh, that is to be considered dead with Christ at the cross of Christ at his death.
If one does see this as to be dead to their own flesh by Faith, then one is shown the free gift of new life from Father in the Spirit of Father, the same Spirit that led Christ is for us to be led the same as Christ
The Battle has never changed and is between flesh man and God's Spirit
It is written all over and through the epistles to us all.
So today choose what you want to be led by God's Spirit or man flesh?
Those that do not see to be dead to flesh and alive to God are dead to God, even if trying to be good.
when one might need to come to the conclusion as Christ said o that rich man, why call me good for only my Father is good. Matthew 19
Anyway bottom line it always boils down to this: it is either of the flesh or it is from God in the Spirit of God
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

So if you consider self dead to flesh and held alive by the Spirit of God, I bet you will walk as he walked you think?

 

[homwardbound]

I would not go there

"a true half of the truth church"

"a church ignoring what Jesus said to do church"

How about a TRUE BIBLE BASED CHURCH?

hint
there are three people in that church
I have NEVER seen a true Bible ollowing church with more than three people
Neither did PAul in the new testament

Have you ever yet considered this:

Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Hebrews 8:2
a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Hebrews 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Hebrews 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

 

[homwardbound]

Are we not in belief Citizens:
[h=3]Philippians 3:20-21[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: [SUP]21 [/SUP]who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[p_rehbein]

To you the towering edifice was built and the foundation destroyed, leaving the towering edifice "floating" on nothing.

Hey, have no idea how this applies to what you two are talking about.............BUT IT WOULD MAKE A GREAT COME BACK to those who believe in evolution............

(I'm gonna steal it, and IF I use it, I probably won't remember to give you proper credit........just saying..... )

 

[john832]

Where is it written that the old covenant and the law of Moses are the foundation of either the new covenant or kingdom of GOD? Those were the foundation of the natural nation of Israel. Christ and his apostles are the foundation of the new covenant and kingdom of GOD.

Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:19-22

For no one is able to lay another foundation than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 3:11​

You quoted a scripture that says the Prophets. What does that refer to?

 

[Elin]

To you the towering edifice was built and the foundation destroyed, leaving the towering edifice "floating" on nothing.

Hey, have no idea how this applies to what you two are talking about.............
BUT IT WOULD MAKE A GREAT COME BACK to those who believe in evolution............

(I'm gonna steal it, and IF I use it, I probably won't remember to give you proper credit........just saying..... )

He's just tryin' to avoid answering my original question in the following:

Christ was "the promise", in the old testament. He who has an ear let him hear. Eve's generation hoped for a redeemer.
New testament only is a shallow understanding of God's grace and love, it's like reading the last chapter in a novel,
the icing on the cake with no cake.

So, is the foundation deep within the earth the reason for the magnificent towering edifice of offices, etc. above ground,

or is the magnificent towering edifice above ground the reason for the foundation?

To you, the magnificent towering edifice is just window dressing for the foundation, like icing is for the cake.

< sigh >

To you the towering edifice was built and the foundation destroyed, leaving the towering edifice "floating" on nothing.

Non-responsive.

Assertions without demonstration are meritless.

Assertions without demonstration are meritless.

Non-responsive.

And try to keep up with the demonstrations. . .

 

[p_rehbein]

yeah, I TRIED to read all of those quote on quote thingies...........and all I got was......




............still, his comment WOULD be a good comeback to all the evolutionistnutties.....

 

[mustaphadrink]

To put it simply, the New Testament Church (NTC) is the true New Testament Church and I am basing my remarks on that fact. Some background information would be useful.

The original NTC was known as "The Way." It was considered an offshoot of Judaism (they still met in the temple and still followed the dictates of Jewish Law) and one has to remember that this was not the first time a "messiah" had been proclaimed to rescue the Jews from Roman oppression.

As the OP said, there was no NT, only the Old which they would have been very familiar with. Their NT was the three years that they spent with Jesus whilst on earth. That is what would have been passed onto the converts to The Way. Note that they were first called Christians at Antioch and the designation was one of derision, not approbation.

If there was no NT, one has to ask why and how the church was so powerful and carried the good news of Jesus so successfully.

First, I would like to suggest that the NTC was birthed in prayer and power. They waited in the upper room for the coming Holy Spirit and prayed whilst waiting.

Second, the message on the day of Pentecost was unequivocal. Repent and be baptised for the remission of sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Third, their defining factor was how much they loved one another.

Fourth. they met together daily in small groups.

Fifth. the focus of everything was a risen Lord.

Sixth, they believed in and exercised the supernatural.

Seventh, the believers died daily.

Eight, death was always around the corner.

Nine, they were united.

Ten, No one was paid to be a Christian.

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTE: First, I would like to suggest that the NTC was birthed in prayer and power. They waited in the upper room for the coming Holy Spirit and prayed whilst waiting.
Second, the message on the day of Pentecost was unequivocal. Repent and be baptised for the remission of sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Third, their defining factor was how much they loved one another.
Fourth. they met together daily in small groups.
Fifth. the focus of everything was a risen Lord.
Sixth, they believed in and exercised the supernatural.
Seventh, the believers died daily.
Eight, death was always around the corner.
Nine, they were united.
Ten, No one was paid to be a Christian.

END QUOTE........................

The One True Church was "birthed in the precious blood of Jesus Christ, and not by any works of man." The Holy Spirit came to justify the Church........The NT Church was then and is now the "entire body of believers/disciples" of Jesus Christ.

The message of the NT Church is THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. Yes, repentance and baptism are part of that Gospel, but there is far more. Jesus Christ is the MESSAGE OF THE DAY! JESUS SAVES!

They did not ALWAYS meet in small groups. The church at Jerusalem was no small group. Some of the other churches that were begun by Paul were not small groups either.

Certainly the message was, and should be today, HE LIVES!

Death has always been "always around the corner" since the fall of Adam and Eve.......with or without being a believer. Death is always around the corner today.

The last one will have to be clarified........... "No one was paid to be a Christian.

Are you implying that people today are being "paid" to be Christian? If so, who are these people?

 

[JaumeJ]

The intention of the OP subject is about those who consider the correct church one that only consults the New Testament, with hardly any reference to the Old Testament disregarding the two are one Book, one Word, and augment understanding of each other.

The OP has been changed to the original converts, who had absolutely no access to the New Testament, the writings were either in progress, or yet to come, and the New Testament had a long time coming to be compiled as we know it today.

Bottom line, I am recommending all who walk in the light of Jesus Christ to learn all about Him from the Old Testament and the new. It is fulfilling and completes the Holy Spirit believer.

 

[p_rehbein]

Very true.............when the Apostles were establishing the Church, they were preaching from the Scriptures of the Old Testament, and the Gospel preached by Jesus Christ. They did not have a New Testament Bible as we today have.

There is much to be learned from the entire Bible, for it is ALL THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD.

 

[JaumeJ]

Well I am glad I got that straight, now (the whip) back to the OP...........

 

[secularhermit]

@ Jaumej

With straight fellows, loving people around, no doudt His Church -and real fellowship- is built keeping friendship and his sheep away from backslides.

Thanks for being the Jack you are, brother!

 

[secularhermit]

The intention of the OP subject is about those who consider the correct church one that only consults the New Testament, with hardly any reference to the Old Testament disregarding the two are one Book, one Word, and augment understanding of each other.

The OP has been changed to the original converts, who had absolutely no access to the New Testament, the writings were either in progress, or yet to come, and the New Testament had a long time coming to be compiled as we know it today.

Bottom line, I am recommending all who walk in the light of Jesus Christ to learn all about Him from the Old Testament and the new. It is fulfilling and completes the Holy Spirit believer.

I am NOT a Jew! But I see the NT as a mirror, as a mirror where Jesus followed up and fulfilled promises God has said so, I use the OT to check how far the NT teaching could be leading me into another thing Jesus never taught or did.

I was used to see the NT first, and now I see the OT first.

Example? Ezekiel 34 (Full Chap) with John 10 (full Chap)

Worthy to say I don´t believe Jesus is the same person His Father is (that´s why I have to understand the OT first)

See that Eze 34:24 I, the LORD, will be their God, and my servant David will be their prince. I, the LORD, have spoken.

Who is the Prince the Lord is talking about?

Jesus said: Mar_12:36 David, guided by the Holy Spirit, said, 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Take the highest position in heaven until I put your enemies under your control."'

I was HIS enemy. I thing I regret.

Rev_17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Just to help see it, I was trinitarian.

 

[JaumeJ]

This is where Hebrew has helped me a lot. David is a Hebrew name/word, and it means Beloved. Most times in the Old Testament, you may completely translate David to Beloved, and you have Jesus. This is what I have been led to believe and understand. If I am way off, it will be demonstrated to me one day, maybe even today...

 

[just-me]

By reading the Bible, and taking into account the chronology, and historical facts, one can conclude that the writers of the "New Testament" didn't have there own scriptures to copy from themselves. They only had what we call the "Old Testament" containing the law, and the prophets. It's common sense. Another thing, that some of todays churches need to comprehend, is that the Gentiles in Greece and Modern day Turkey were privy to the Mosaic law via the dispersed Israelites. Peter writes to these dispersed people, and also Gentiles in 1 Peter 1:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Paul's ministry in Berea and Thessalonica are recorded in Acts 17:10-12 (KJV) both being in Greece, as we read;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Paul writes to the Galatians rightly defining the purpose, and original intent of the Mosaic law, confirming that the Gentiles knew it. Paul describes the law as a God given tool for the Galatians, calling it an avenue to Christ, or the directives that reveal a sinful nature in the human race, and shows the necessity for a Savior, pointing directly to Jesus Christ.

A church that teaches repression of these scriptures that the first church had, is not the same as the first church that we read about in the Bible. There is really no "True New Testament Church" for the Old Testament must be revered as relevant for today if the church is right according to the will of God form all I read in God's Word. The nomenclature is an oxymoron. They can't be "true" by rejecting the "old." The wineskins hold the wine, don't throw the old wineskin away until you drink all of what it holds. It's a waist of a very good drink.

Leviticus 26:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.

 

[just-me]

We all need to realize all of what Jesus taught, the parables, straightening out the pharisees distorted hypocrisy, along with the sermon on the mount, and many other principles, are Old Testament. The New Testament was not in effect until His death.

Hebrews 9:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[secularhermit]

This is where Hebrew has helped me a lot. David is a Hebrew name/word, and it means Beloved. Most times in the Old Testament, you may completely translate David to Beloved, and you have Jesus. This is what I have been led to believe and understand. If I am way off, it will be demonstrated to me one day, maybe even today...

Yes!

I didn´t know that about David (Thanks for the insight).

I will be saved by GRACE, not for my beliefs, just by the belief God had on me, throgh His Beloved Son.