Baptismal Regeneration - Excerpts by Charles Spurgeon

[p_rehbein]

(I should state........my thoughts only I suppose)

Water baptism was commanded by Jesus, and practiced by His disciples during His ministry........TRUE.

HOWEVER, water baptism IS NOT unto salvation. Water baptism is a symbolic act designed to serve as a "witness" to the world, and to the Church that one has been reborn, and become a disciple of Jesus Christ.

This idea that water baptism is unto salvation most often comes from reading Acts 2:38 I believe. The only problem is that those who read water baptism as being unto salvation are not properly reading/understanding the Scripture.

Acts 2:38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be baptized every one of you..........for the remission of sins.........

Question that has to be answered is: Why are they to be water baptized?

1) Are they being baptized to have their sins forgiven?

2) Are they being baptized because their sins were forgiven when they repented?

Simple explanation of verbiage used:

"Repent and jump for joy"

1) Is one jumping to receive joy?

2) Is one jumping because they received joy when they repented?

(anyway, as I said, my thoughts)

 

[zone]

Works of the flesh and none other they had practiced law all of their life's, just as is what is promoted still to this very day, Law and Grace (flesh and Spirit of God) as if they mix when they don't as in having to do verses over being led to do by God's Spirit, big difference in the two.

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

That is where the battle is to this very day, only God himself can show anyone the difference of these two. And does for the one's that have received his Mercy from Christ at the cross of.

OH WOW.
WATER BAPTISM IS AN HERETICAL WORK OF THE FLESH.

OMGolly.

 

[1still_waters]

no, not necessarily....because with the Cross and Christ and The New Covenant, it is all-inclusive.
not just males and not just jews.

oops.
back here again.

But females. were considered part of the covenant even though not circumcised.
Why not apply the same reasoning to infant baptism too?
Again, it's the same "pattern".

 

[homwardbound]

Do babies really have the ability to have faith in a concept such as the atonement being applied to them as water is poured over their head at the young age of one to three months?



This is probably because the parents followed through on the baptism ceremony, and brought their child up in the instruction of God. I doubt it's because as a one month old baby they had water poured on their head, and as a one month old they understood the theology of the cross and how it's being administered through a sacrament. At that stage of life they can't even say momma, let alone understand grace/faith being applied through the means of baptism.

Thanks stilly, absolute truth at least for me, I did go way wayward for many years a drunk, a druggie and many of those others things that are not beneficial, where God is the one that did the deliverance not any man. Whew!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am deeply thankful

 

[homwardbound]

4*These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the*Lord*God made the earth and the heavens,

5*And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the*Lord*God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6*But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7*And the*Lord*God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

And by Adam it got screwed up and death came to all mankind born after the similitude of Adam and Eve, Yet now God through Christ has corrected that and brought new life in the Spirit of God through Son's resurrected life, after first the death to flesh, get it for Adam and Eve were born of the flesh not the Spirit of God after the eating from that tree that brought forth death

 

[homwardbound]

On this I agree with 1still_waters. I believe that John the Baptist is the ONLY record of one having holy Spirit in the womb. Aren't we to confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in our hearts that God hath raised him from the dead to be saved? Does sprinkling or immersion with water do that for an infant or small child?

My grandson just turned 9 and he said something about getting baptized (must have heard other kids talking about it) - I asked him did he know what it meant to be baptized - he said "no". I talked with him and of course I explained that getting baptized does not save you, that it symbolizes his flesh dying and his being raised to new life - then I explained Romans 10:9,10 and that he could do that without being baptized in water BUT I did tell him if after he thought about it - if he still wanted to be baptized so everyone would know that he had given his life to Christ - then by all means be baptized.

Now that is the Love of god permeating through you and I thank God for you, along with everyone else here in this debate

 

[p_rehbein]

2. Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins.”

3. 1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

4. Revelation 1:5 “… Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.”

Hebrews 9:14 “How muchmore shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience …

8. Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience …”

9. Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”

10. Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

11. Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

 

[homwardbound]

uh...ya...he could have been.
but what does it actually say happened?
i think you're missing my point. i didn't post that passage as a proof text for water baptism.



uh...he didn't have much faith from what i can see.
he grumbled and doubted the whole thing.
he expected a waving of the hand and the spectacular.
or he wondered why other rivers weren't as "good" (as in - he thought WATER - not GOD)

none of that is the real point of that passage anyway - so i prolly shouldn't even have posted it.
lol



uh...okay.

does Jesus say to baptize people or doesn't He?
is God looking into your heart when you get baptized - to see your faith in action-type thing? isn't that salvation by works?
or is He happily seeing others greet you as a member of the local church? your outward display of your inward faith?

what is God doing with baptism? anything?

Bottom line Zone what is water Baptism period? Is it of flesh to want to serve God?
So what is Spirit Baptism from God is it the same as water Baptism? or is water Baptism the lead to Spirit Baptism as the Law was and is the lead to new live in needing Christ, and leaving the Law alone after seeing it has done its Job? Is it not the same to transfer from flesh to new life? Water Baptism to Spirit Baptism, just saying Sister

 

[zone]

But females. were considered part of the covenant even though not circumcised.
Why not apply the same reasoning to infant baptism too?
Again, it's the same "pattern".

i'm not using circumcision as the pattern.

Covenant is the pattern.




did i say that out loud?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

???

water baptism is a Jewish Law holdover tradition that the......like.....

um...so....water baptism is actually a false gospel (like the Judaizers insisting Gentiles had to be circumcised)?

no...you're not saying that are you?

The ceremonial washings done in the OT foreshadowed water baptism - water baptism foreshadowed holy Spirit baptism - that's why the holy Spirit is often related with water - poured out, filled, living waters.

Hebrews 9:1, 9-10 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. . . Which was a figure for the time present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances imposed on them until the time of reformation.

NOOOOO - I am not saying that water baptism is a false doctrine - geesh. There was great disagreement concerning circumcision but circumcision was not false for it was part of the "ordinances" that were part of the law - after the death and resurrection of our Lord - circumcision was of the heart not the flesh - but the ordinance of circumcision held with some even though they were Christian.

 

[zone]

Bottom line Zone what is water Baptism period? Is it of flesh to want to serve God?

you said it was a work of the flesh.

Law. anyways....i know you're uncertain of your theology at this time home.

like many others you're currently holding to Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, though you either don't know it or won't admit it.

peaceful is straightforward about that.
which is nice, f.a.c.

 

[p_rehbein]

peacefulbeliever said:

NOOOOO - I am not saying that water baptism is a false doctrine - geesh. There was great disagreement concerning circumcision but circumcision was not false for it was part of the "ordinances" that were part of the law - after the death and resurrection of our Lord - circumcision was of the heart not the flesh - but the ordinance of circumcision held with some even though they were Christian.

I agree that water baptism is not a false teaching..........Jesus said to be baptized. The discussion starts when people try to determine the purpose for water baptism. The role it plays in the life of a new believer. In my opinion, it is important for every new believer (if at all possible) to be water baptized. However, in my opinion, water baptism is not unto salvation.

IF one does not believe in Jesus Christ.........
IF one does not confess/repent............
AND they are water baptized, all that is accomplished is one is a very wet sinner who is not reborn.

Salvation is a gift from God, and that by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ...not by any works of man......

Water baptism is very important, but water baptism is not salvation....

(again, my thoughts)

 

[zone]

The ceremonial washings done in the OT foreshadowed water baptism - water baptism foreshadowed holy Spirit baptism - that's why the holy Spirit is often related with water - poured out, filled, living waters.

then the Apostles should have stopped it - instead of continuing it.
which means the Power they received from On High At Pentecost to be infallibly inspired messengers of the New Covenant message failed them.

they were in serious error by not stopping water baptism, and in fact performing it themselves - AFTER PENTECOST.

Jesus Himself should have made it clearer in the Great Commission.

and the Church has been repeating the serious error ever since....until the ______ Movement introduced Holy Ghost Baptism.

Hebrews 9:1, 9-10 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. . . Which was a figure for the time present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances imposed on them until the time of reformation.

but the diverse washings were not the New Covenant baptism.

NOOOOO - I am not saying that water baptism is a false doctrine - geesh. There was great disagreement concerning circumcision but circumcision was not false for it was part of the "ordinances" that were part of the law - after the death and resurrection of our Lord - circumcision was of the heart not the flesh - but the ordinance of circumcision held with some even though they were Christian.

so they continued water baptism when they should not have, in spite of being The Lord's supernaturally empowered witnesses and messengers of the New Covenant Gospel?

ON...THE....DAY...OF...Pentecost, Peter told them ALL to be baptized.

and they were. in water.

3000 that day were saved.

 

[homwardbound]

maybe we should...sometime.



right.
so why the dipping in the river (this is not a proof text for water baptism), when he didn't have to?





well, i agree....so what's "it's nice to have both" for?
God is not the Author of confusion.

this Baptism with the Holy Ghost teaching is new you realize, right?



suffering and death.



but peaceful...you weren't AT PENTECOST.

anyways....

But God was and is still here to this very day separating truth from error in all that God has received as his, living in us separating error from truth. and we are sealed by the Holy Ghost of promise for this to be done, growing in and unto being matured believers through Son's finished work for us at the cross of, where first we are dead to flesh as Christ was for three days in order to bring us the new Covenant, new priesthood and new laws. To believe in him and by this finalization of what is done for us those that believe receive new life in father via the Spirit, which today is the only way Father is worshipped

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTE:

ON...THE....DAY...OF...Pentecost, Peter told them ALL to be baptized.

and they were. in water.

3000 that day were saved.

END QUOTE:

Brother Zone.........lest we forget........Peter told them TO REPENT...........and be baptized.........we can not exclude what he commanded them to do............REPENT..........

 

[zone]

Sister Zone.........lest we forget........Peter told them TO REPENT...........and be baptized.........we can not exclude what he commanded them to do............REPENT..........

okee dokee.

what else did he say?

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

now what?

 

[homwardbound]

hi home.
what happened or what did you do, in that you are able to say you were saved at age 12?
do you remember?

Oh yes, but I am sure you will not believe the miracle that happened to me at age 12? But if you want to hear it then tell me so and I will post it.
It is what it is, and intensely amazing, as there are many others afterwards as well, as a matter of fact the things that happened I have posted in the Blog that I have been writing for awhile now led, yet there are over 400 posts there now, but not hard to find anyone of them, it is set up in a magazine style, just scroll down and pick whatever might interest you, or not
www.godjustloveyou.blogspot.com
Thanks Sister for your care

 

[Karraster]

then the Apostles should have stopped it - instead of continuing it.
which means the Power they received from On High At Pentecost to be infallibly inspired messengers of the New Covenant message failed them.

they were in serious error by not stopping water baptism, and in fact performing it themselves - AFTER PENTECOST.

*******************Jesus Himself should have made it clearer in the Great Commission.*********************

and the Church has been repeating the serious error ever since....until the ______ Movement introduced Holy Ghost Baptism.



but the diverse washings were not the New Covenant baptism.



so they continued water baptism when they should not have, in spite of being The Lord's supernaturally empowered witnesses and messengers of the New Covenant Gospel?

ON...THE....DAY...OF...Pentecost, Peter told them ALL to be baptized.

and they were. in water.

3000 that day were saved.

??????????

 

[homwardbound]

i know we receive the Holy Spirit as a gift

we, however, were not told to go to the city Jerusalem and wait for the Power From On High.

bye for now.

Yes sister yes and we wait by what Faith or works?

 

[p_rehbein]

okee dokee.

what else did he say?

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

now what?

.........and you didn't read my first comment on the thread I suppose......

why were they being water baptized?

1) to receive forgiveness of their sins?

2) because they had already received forgiveness upon repentance?

REPENT AND JUMP FOR JOY

Why do we jump?

1) to receive joy?
2) because we received joy when we repented?

Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins.............your sins were forgiven when you repented, being water baptized celebrates that event.........and serves as a witness to the world that you have been born again/anew, and have been baptized in the blood of Jesus Christ.......