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A
I might be boring some of you, but I guess I started this thread to ask for help figuring out what my vocation is (look Lynn and Cathy, learned and used a new word today, lol)
So I found these passages from the book useful to the discussion of anyone is still interested in discussing.
*****
Passages I find signficant:
Pg 13
"By virtue of our own baptism, we too are commissioned, anointed and empowered to continue the ministry that Jesus started when he walked this earth. That makes all baptized persons ministers.
That God calls all to witness and service cannot be denied. However, the kind of witness and the kind of service to which God calls is a far more difficult question to answer. This again is the question of vocation...the place where God's will for our lives and our obedience come together in the fulfillment of our purpose for being."
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"It is only by hearing, answering and participating in the divine calling that I can come to know who I am. We are not who we think we are, we are who God calls us to be." Gilbert Meilaender
So I found these passages from the book useful to the discussion of anyone is still interested in discussing.
*****
Passages I find signficant:
Pg 13
"By virtue of our own baptism, we too are commissioned, anointed and empowered to continue the ministry that Jesus started when he walked this earth. That makes all baptized persons ministers.
That God calls all to witness and service cannot be denied. However, the kind of witness and the kind of service to which God calls is a far more difficult question to answer. This again is the question of vocation...the place where God's will for our lives and our obedience come together in the fulfillment of our purpose for being."
******
"It is only by hearing, answering and participating in the divine calling that I can come to know who I am. We are not who we think we are, we are who God calls us to be." Gilbert Meilaender
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Why "evangelist"? Every Christian can tell basic things to people around him or on the internet. It does not have to be a "church role" at all.
What do you mean by prophets? I have never met any. I have a problem to find them in the real life.
What do you mean by pastors? I have a problem to find them in the Bible.
Teachers? Yes, logically, teachers can teach
I think bishops and presbyters can teach too, from their position of authority, even if it does not have to be their specialization.
What do you mean by prophets? I have never met any. I have a problem to find them in the real life.
What do you mean by pastors? I have a problem to find them in the Bible.
Teachers? Yes, logically, teachers can teach
I think bishops and presbyters can teach too, from their position of authority, even if it does not have to be their specialization.
A
Why "evangelist"? Every Christian can tell basic things to people around him or on the internet. It does not have to be a "church role" at all.
What do you mean by prophets? I have never met any. I have a problem to find them in the real life.
What do you mean by pastors? I have a problem to find them in the Bible.
Teachers? Yes, logically, teachers can teach
I think bishops and presbyters can teach too, from their position of authority, even if it does not have to be their specialization.
What do you mean by prophets? I have never met any. I have a problem to find them in the real life.
What do you mean by pastors? I have a problem to find them in the Bible.
Teachers? Yes, logically, teachers can teach
I think bishops and presbyters can teach too, from their position of authority, even if it does not have to be their specialization.
Agreed. In fact, every Christian have all aspects of the church roles in him and is using them in the real life
But if we talk about the roles in the Church, I think it should be named properly and their boundaries should be biblical (not like today´s "pastors" having unlimited functions and roles).
But if we talk about the roles in the Church, I think it should be named properly and their boundaries should be biblical (not like today´s "pastors" having unlimited functions and roles).
A
Ephesians 4:11 -16 (English Standard version)
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
A
Agreed. In fact, every Christian have all aspects of the church roles in him and is using them in the real life
But if we talk about the roles in the Church, I think it should be named properly and their boundaries should be biblical (not like today´s "pastors" having unlimited functions and roles).
But if we talk about the roles in the Church, I think it should be named properly and their boundaries should be biblical (not like today´s "pastors" having unlimited functions and roles).
We could talk about each office listed in the bible verses above?
the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds/pastors and teachers,
Some believe the apostles refer only to the original 12 and that there are no more prophets today.
Apostles and prophets are not anymore, I think.
Apostles are not anymore because they were limited in number and died out. Prophets are not anymore because we have the full New Testament.
Not sure what is the role and definition of the shepherd. Do you have any early Christian writing about them? I do not recall any reading about shepherds in the apostolic church writings.
That teacher teaches is quite clear... but I have no idea what the first shepherds did.
Apostles are not anymore because they were limited in number and died out. Prophets are not anymore because we have the full New Testament.
Not sure what is the role and definition of the shepherd. Do you have any early Christian writing about them? I do not recall any reading about shepherds in the apostolic church writings.
That teacher teaches is quite clear... but I have no idea what the first shepherds did.
P
I guess I don't understand, I hold firm on " if your life is not a testimony to the living God and that the testimony of how God changed you then is not inspiration enough to tell others of Gods mercy and grace then someone missed the boat.
Imo how to plan for or seek a ministry when you yourself are a witness to the truth and of the truth is futile. Take a lesson from the woman at the well who by her excitement brought the whole town out to see Jesus after on conversation. The gospel is the power we do not empower the gospel.
How can the argument be a women or man when we are led by a child.
Imo how to plan for or seek a ministry when you yourself are a witness to the truth and of the truth is futile. Take a lesson from the woman at the well who by her excitement brought the whole town out to see Jesus after on conversation. The gospel is the power we do not empower the gospel.
How can the argument be a women or man when we are led by a child.
Most Pastoral roles today are filled with deacons. That is people who according to scripture should be firmly rooted in truth, above reproach, and have obedient children with a submissive wife. What role have woman played in the past? Deborah was a judge at a time when Elohims people had fallen away from the way we should walk.
The times a woman was given the good news first before any man had heard of it. Maybe that was because the woman took the fruit into her hand first.
I also like proverb 8
"Now then, my children, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways.
When wisdom speaks in this proverb wouldn't anyone be blessed by a woman as such?
For a woman to be submitted to her husband she surly must first submit to Elohim and His ways. Then her way would be a light for feet and her words a ointment for wounds.
The times a woman was given the good news first before any man had heard of it. Maybe that was because the woman took the fruit into her hand first.
I also like proverb 8
"Now then, my children, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways.
When wisdom speaks in this proverb wouldn't anyone be blessed by a woman as such?
For a woman to be submitted to her husband she surly must first submit to Elohim and His ways. Then her way would be a light for feet and her words a ointment for wounds.
Its like with the word priest.
Episcopos, people shortened to Piscopos, Piscop, Bishop.
Presybetros, Presb, Prest, Priest.
Yes, they are English words, but I think they have the origin in the Bible.
Problem is their definitions. For example the RCC took priests and forgot that in Christianity it meant presbyteros/elder and made them like the Levitical OT priesthood... wrong.
Episcopos, people shortened to Piscopos, Piscop, Bishop.
Presybetros, Presb, Prest, Priest.
Yes, they are English words, but I think they have the origin in the Bible.
Problem is their definitions. For example the RCC took priests and forgot that in Christianity it meant presbyteros/elder and made them like the Levitical OT priesthood... wrong.