Calvinists: The Just Shall Live BEFORE Having Faith
- Thread starter DevotiontoBible
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
That didn't happen until the NT.
“The day is coming,” says the Lord , “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,” says the Lord . “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the Lord . “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the Lord .’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already,” says the Lord . “And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.”
Jeremiah 31:31*-34 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/jer.31.31-34.NLT
“The day is coming,” says the Lord , “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,” says the Lord . “But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel after those days,” says the Lord . “I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the Lord .’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already,” says the Lord . “And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.”
Jeremiah 31:31*-34 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/jer.31.31-34.NLT
Yes, they were saved because they had faith in the promised Messiah. The Holy Spirit as a regenerative agent didn't appear until Pentecost in the 1st cent AD. But that doesn't fit your Calvinist order of salvation so you have to make up stuff like OT people were regenerated BEFORE they could do anything pleasing to God.
D
A. I suspect you don't really "know" any Calvinists, considering that was the sum total of what you thought they said.
B. Any particular reason you're against figuring out what Calvinists really believe instead of just guessing based on some brief encounters? It's not like there isn't enough out on the Internet to learn what it truly means.
C. And given you don't know what Calvinists truly believe, how about not coming across as an expert? That's like teaching someone how to ride a bike when you never learned yourself.
B. Any particular reason you're against figuring out what Calvinists really believe instead of just guessing based on some brief encounters? It's not like there isn't enough out on the Internet to learn what it truly means.
C. And given you don't know what Calvinists truly believe, how about not coming across as an expert? That's like teaching someone how to ride a bike when you never learned yourself.
E
David said pretty much the same in Psalms, He also said that God knew him from his mothers womb, there was nothign hidden from Gods sight. Abraham was declaired righteous before the. Law was even given and he did one work..
Salvation by faith has been the way to God From Adam until today and always will be
Salvation by faith has been the way to God From Adam until today and always will be
E
I am done with this line of reasoning, I think we have beet it to a dead horse.
If you all think mental agreement is the same as saving faith,. Then their is nothing I can do to help you.
Again, the problem is in english, You do not say you FAITH in someone, It does nto work, YTou say you BELIEVE in someone. But it is not a simple belief where you just agree that he did something or may be able to do something, the belief which saves is real faith.
If you all think mental agreement is the same as saving faith,. Then their is nothing I can do to help you.
Again, the problem is in english, You do not say you FAITH in someone, It does nto work, YTou say you BELIEVE in someone. But it is not a simple belief where you just agree that he did something or may be able to do something, the belief which saves is real faith.
D
Then you're dismissing Romans 9.
[FONT="]10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. [/FONT]
Look at who Jacob and Esau were as people.
Jacob was the brother who saw how hungry his brother was, and yet wouldn't feed him without getting something he coveted from him.
Esau hunted and took life easy.
Jacob was the one who conned his father out of the blessing.
Esau was angry, but didn't kill him.
Jacob was the wuss who ran away.
Esau stayed and took care of their parents.
Jacob got homesick, but he was still a coward. So he sent out his flock first to make sure Esau wouldn't kill them.
Esau did not kill Jacob's flock.
Jacob then sent out his wives and children to see if Esau would kill them.
Esau ran to his brother and hugged him.
No. Seriously. God does not choose us because we are fine, upstanding members of society. He chooses the weak, the wusses, the stupid, the fools! We are the fools! He chooses the sludge of society to confound the world by separating them from the world and changing them into his good.
He told us that over and over again, and he keeps his word.
[FONT="]10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. [/FONT]
Look at who Jacob and Esau were as people.
Jacob was the brother who saw how hungry his brother was, and yet wouldn't feed him without getting something he coveted from him.
Esau hunted and took life easy.
Jacob was the one who conned his father out of the blessing.
Esau was angry, but didn't kill him.
Jacob was the wuss who ran away.
Esau stayed and took care of their parents.
Jacob got homesick, but he was still a coward. So he sent out his flock first to make sure Esau wouldn't kill them.
Esau did not kill Jacob's flock.
Jacob then sent out his wives and children to see if Esau would kill them.
Esau ran to his brother and hugged him.
No. Seriously. God does not choose us because we are fine, upstanding members of society. He chooses the weak, the wusses, the stupid, the fools! We are the fools! He chooses the sludge of society to confound the world by separating them from the world and changing them into his good.
He told us that over and over again, and he keeps his word.
D
And that is the picture of two horse noses at the finishing line that needs pixelating. Going from unbelief to belief can happen in an instant. It usually does happen in an instant.
The only thing we're disagreeing on in this whole thread is what happened in microseconds.
And, to me, that's one of the dumber arguments. The only even-dumber argument I know is when God knew Jesus would have to die -- before or after creation.
The only thing we're disagreeing on in this whole thread is what happened in microseconds.
And, to me, that's one of the dumber arguments. The only even-dumber argument I know is when God knew Jesus would have to die -- before or after creation.