Do Dispensationalism and Free-will Salvation question God's providence?

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Hoffco

Guest
#61
#61
Does sinful man have a free will? yes and no. Is it free from all mighty God, no way ! Is it free to do what his heart wants to do ? yes And what does our sinful heart want to do? (Reject God's will, follow sin, disobey authority.) Whose will can change the sinners heart? Only God's will can make the sinner a saint. Rom. 1:7 "..called to be saints:" v.5"for the obedience to the faith" God made us alive so we would obey His doctrine of His Word. v.17 "...the just live(LIVE) by faith" (holy ,saved persons obey God) I pray, you are reading and praying over Gods word. Please. let it speak to your heart ,mind and soul. Read all verses in context. I think I have been faith to the CONTEXT of God's word.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#62
#62
Does sinful man have a free will? yes and no. Is it free from all mighty God, no way ! Is it free to do what his heart wants to do ? yes And what does our sinful heart want to do? (Reject God's will, follow sin, disobey authority.) Whose will can change the sinners heart? Only God's will can make the sinner a saint. Rom. 1:7 "..called to be saints:" v.5"for the obedience to the faith" God made us alive so we would obey His doctrine of His Word. v.17 "...the just live(LIVE) by faith" (holy ,saved persons obey God) I pray, you are reading and praying over Gods word. Please. let it speak to your heart ,mind and soul. Read all verses in context. I think I have been faith to the CONTEXT of God's word.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#63
#63
I think my PC is still messed up, I don't receive your posts unless I post a message>? And when I post , I loss the page , then, sign off, and come back on line, this is crazy.
 
ForthAngel

ForthAngel

Senior Member
#64
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
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#64
I think to say that God is forced to force us, and there is no other way it can be, is to say God himself has no choice and is driven automatically by his very nature. While I believe he is driven by his very nature, I also believe he has control of it, and aren't there times when he can just let things progress on their own without interfering and allowing us to make our own choices? On the seventh day, didn't God rest?

From what I understand of election, there are some who are elected, and from Romans 11, it seems to me that while some are elected, others are grafted in. That isn't to say they weren't called by God, and who can refuse the call? but then I keep seeing this word foreknowledge popping up everywhere. I think sometimes, certain areas we want to understand just can't be understood, and possibly never will be.

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#65
#65
OK,. now it works
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#66
#66
OK,. now it works, no ,it didn't work, it went blank,then I clicked arrow for return, then I got the message. weird. ForthAngel, it is good honest thinking on your part, Part of our problem is ,pastors have not been faithful in letting the Bible define its own words, GRAMMATICAL INTERPRETATION, WHAT DO THE WORDS MEAN according to God, the author? foreknown= God's eternal love for His elect, Jacob I loved, Esau, I hated. before they did any good or bad, election is not based on knowledge before hand, but LOVE before hand. "in love He chose us" Rom. 9:13 and Eph.1:4-5
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#67
#67
Comparing Scripture with scripture is the only way to get Gods meaning. This is,"rightly dividing" better called "rightly relating" the word of God. as a dress maker puts the pattern together as the instructions says to do. this is called analyzing, taking apart, and then we synthesis, put it into our systematic theology which we are all writing in our heads, better to put it on paper ,so we can evaluate and correct it as we need.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#68
#68
To Mammachickdee, you have a beautiful family. And are a good student , learning God's word, better each day. Webster has a good definition of providence= " divine guidance or care" provident = "making provision for the future." I would say "free will" takes advantage of God's providence. ''we live and move" in God's providence. acts 17:28. Mans problem is ,he is only free to sin, as in Jh.8:34. Only Jesus can set us free, Jh.8:36 "If the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed."
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#69
#69
notuptome said:
Simply not true. You have not grasped what God has taught. The Jews to this day have not grasped this either.

I can say without reservation that God does not save any soul against its will.
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No will is violated, God or man's. He changes man's will, because he destroys the heart that produce that will and puts in a new heart with a new will. By implication man's will is violated, but in reality it has only been violated in so much as it no longer exists due to it's source being destroyed.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#70
#70
eternally-gratefull said:
thus he has to freely chose to allow someone else to save him..
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Yet, if man does not do his part he can't get saved. So man must do something to get saved.

It's no different in it's most basic form from the mormon gospel. "Do what you can, jesus will do the rest."
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#71
#71
God's will has many sides, many aspects (a particular appearance) God has a will of desire, 1Tim, 2:4 "desires all men to be saved". God has a will of decree, Eph. 1:11 "who works all things according to the counsel of His will." God has a will of permission, Psa.106:15 "And He gave them their request, but sent leanness into their souls." I could go on, but you get the point, let GOD be GOD! Even so, it is with God's love. Unconditional "Jacob I have loved , Esau I have hated" Rom.9:13. And Conditional, as to say, I love those who love Me, I hate those who hate Me. Deut.5:9-10 7:9-10 but in 7:8 is unconditional love for His people, (today it is Israel, His nation.mostly lost,but still His People), see Rom.11:29 "For His gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."
 
ForthAngel

ForthAngel

Senior Member
#72
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#72
Hoffco said:
God's will has many sides, many aspects (a particular appearance) God has a will of desire, 1Tim, 2:4 "desires all men to be saved". God has a will of decree, Eph. 1:11 "who works all things according to the counsel of His will." God has a will of permission, Psa.106:15 "And He gave them their request, but sent leanness into their souls." I could go on, but you get the point, let GOD be GOD!
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I like what you said here
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#73
#73
Thanks to jimmydiggs, it is pleasantly surprising what cults say today. as you said,"the Mormon gospel. ' "do what you can, jesus will do the rest." ' I love to engage anyone in Bible talk, it is surprising what people say. Talk, friend to friend, it is amazing how people open up. I lost my car to the Dec.4,2012, typhoon in New Bataan, so we have to ride the jeepies, I love it, I evangelize about every day. I wrote some Gospel tracts and witness in the mall. Very often someone sits with me to discuss the Gospel.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#74
#74
To ForthAngel, is this referring to the"fourth angel" in Rev.8:12? The one who introduces the last 3 trumpets (3 woes)of God's awful wrath. Are these satanic angels whom God uses to curse the earth? as in Job? If so, then you rightly have the angel in black. But ,my question, why would you paint yourself in black?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#75
#75
jimmydiggs said:
Yet, if man does not do his part he can't get saved. So man must do something to get saved.

It's no different in it's most basic form from the mormon gospel. "Do what you can, jesus will do the rest."[/B][/COLOR]
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What part?

Stand still and admit you can't save yourself, and do the one thing which is totally contrary to human nature, and trust another to save you while you stand still?

Again, How can one take credit in this?

As Jesus said, it is the a WORK of God you believe.

we are saved by faith apart from works.

faith is NOT a work.

That is the way God set it up.

He offers salvation to all. but he is not going to force someone to take his offer. If he did, he would not be God.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#76
#76
sorry, eternally-gratefull, if god is like you say, YOU have a false god.
 
D

djames1958

Guest
#77
#77
Mammachickadee said:
If one looks at the fine details, though, they will see an outright belief that salvation in the Old Testament times was acquired by obeying sacrificial laws, but after Christ it's the belief in salvation by faith (and usually free-will salvation).
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This is an oft-repeated, but completely inaccurate understanding of what dispensationalism teaches concerning salvation. Some early writers, like Scofield, made statements that when taken in isolation could give the impression that salvation under the Law was different than since the cross. However, that was over 100 years ago. Subsequent theologians, particularly those of the last 60 years have made it abundantly clear over and over again that there is only one way of salvation - ever - namely by grace through faith alone.

I have been a believer for nearly 30 years and have studied and taught dispensationalism for the last 20+ years, being a Dallas Theological Seminary graduate - and personally know some of the most well-known dispensationalists including Walvoord, Pentecost, Ryrie, Toussaint, Zuck, Constable, Bailey, Dyer and others - and I have never encountered anyone who has taught anything but salvation by grace through faith alone in every era of God's program.

If there is a dispensationalist out there who teaches two ways of salvation or dual covenant theology, he is out-of-step and completely outside the mainstream of dispensational theology.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#78
#78
eternally-grateful, how can you read the scriptures I just quoted this morning and say , they are wrong, you have a better god then that of Jesus' Father in Heaven? a god who doesn't force anyone and requires nothing from us to be saved, that is a god of your making.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#79
#79
djames1958, thanks for that very revealing confession! As I have taught, for 50 yrs, that Dallas Theo. Sem. is the capital of carnal christianity. A,W.Tozor and I and John MacArthur condemn it. this "faith only" sal. is not found in the Bible. It is of the Devil!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#80
#80
Hoffco said:
sorry, eternally-gratefull, if god is like you say, YOU have a false god.
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lol. So if God is a God who offers salvation to ALL creation because he loves those he created. and does not force them to take it he is a false God?

On the contrary, A God who would force some to take it and not give others a chance is a false God. He is a God who has proven satan was right.
 
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