Do Dispensationalism and Free-will Salvation question God's providence?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#81
djames1958, thanks for that very revealing confession! As I have taught, for 50 yrs, that Dallas Theo. Sem. is the capital of carnal christianity. A,W.Tozor and I and John MacArthur condemn it. this "faith only" sal. is not found in the Bible. It is of the Devil!

lol.. So you think you, a sinner, who is justly and rightly condemned, Can make up for your own sin? and you have the ability to force God to forgive you based on your own work?

You do not understand sin or the character of God very well if you believe this.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#82
djames1958, thanks for that very revealing confession! As I have taught, for 50 yrs, that Dallas Theo. Sem. is the capital of carnal christianity. A,W.Tozor and I and John MacArthur condemn it. this "faith only" sal. is not found in the Bible. It is of the Devil! You guys corrected somethings; but you when from the frying pan into the fire. You have created an apostate church which will be "left behind' at the rapture.
 
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Reformedjason

Guest
#83
I am a Calvinist that does not believe in covenant theology so I guess I am a Calvinist dispensationalist
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#84
To ForthAngel, is this referring to the"fourth angel" in Rev.8:12? The one who introduces the last 3 trumpets (3 woes)of God's awful wrath. Are these satanic angels whom God uses to curse the earth? as in Job? If so, then you rightly have the angel in black. But ,my question, why would you paint yourself in black?
its actually referring to the band forthangel :p and i think their concept comes from "and the angels will come forth" talking about the end times to reap. not really sure. and about revelation and the angels, i have no clue. i havent studied revelation and im trying to stay away until i learn what i need from the rest of the bible. i notice people who get caught up on future prophecy tend to lose sight of whats really important. i dont want to fall in that trap. trying to be objective about everything until i gain an understanding of my own through my own study and revelation and comparing it with people who have a much more grounded faith and been at it for much longer.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
#85
djames1958, This, "faith only" sal. is not found in the Bible. It is of the Devil! You guys corrected somethings; but you when from the frying pan into the fire. You have created an apostate church which will be "left behind' at the rapture.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#86
This is an oft-repeated, but completely inaccurate understanding of what dispensationalism teaches concerning salvation. Some early writers, like Scofield, made statements that when taken in isolation could give the impression that salvation under the Law was different than since the cross. However, that was over 100 years ago. Subsequent theologians, particularly those of the last 60 years have made it abundantly clear over and over again that there is only one way of salvation - ever - namely by grace through faith alone.

I have been a believer for nearly 30 years and have studied and taught dispensationalism for the last 20+ years, being a Dallas Theological Seminary graduate - and personally know some of the most well-known dispensationalists including Walvoord, Pentecost, Ryrie, Toussaint, Zuck, Constable, Bailey, Dyer and others - and I have never encountered anyone who has taught anything but salvation by grace through faith alone in every era of God's program.

If there is a dispensationalist out there who teaches two ways of salvation or dual covenant theology, he is out-of-step and completely outside the mainstream of dispensational theology.
I have the book "things to come" from dwight pentecost. (one of th ebest books i have read I might add) Although there are some things I question. Not one time to i remember him teaching dual covenant, In fact, he states plainly. Isreal will not be restored until the return to the lord and receive Grace through faith.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87
djames1958, This, "faith only" sal. is not found in the Bible. It is of the Devil! You guys corrected somethings; but you when from the frying pan into the fire. You have created an apostate church which will be "left behind' at the rapture.
My friend, A works based Gospel is a pharisee Gospel.

If you want to be like the pharisee and boast of your works. And not like the sinner who begged God to have mercy on you. You will be in dire straights.
 
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Mammachickadee

Guest
#88
Please not I AM NOTE ARMINIAN.

I believe eternal life IS eternal. and can not be loat. Also called perseverance of the saints.

so don't look at me from arminian eyes either
:p
No, seriously. Throughout my Bible study I will find a verse here and there that I want to remember for quick reference; so in the blank pages of my Bible I write them down in categories. Perseverence is right under Proofs of Election and right above God's Protection of the Saints.
 
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Reformedjason

Guest
#89
djames1958, This, "faith only" sal. is not found in the Bible. It is of the Devil! You guys corrected somethings; but you when from the frying pan into the fire. You have created an apostate church which will be "left behind' at the rapture.
Eph. 2:8,9 for it is by grace through faith. Faith is the only thing required of us. Grace comes from the Father.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#91
No, seriously. Throughout my Bible study I will find a verse here and there that I want to remember for quick reference; so in the blank pages of my Bible I write them down in categories. Perseverence is right under Proofs of Election and right above God's Protection of the Saints.
Yes. We are saved by faith, and not of ourselves

God is faithfull even if we are faithless.

Eternal life is eternal. never is it called conditiona.

We are given the seal of the spirit

No where are we told one can lose salvation. Only in misinterpreting certain passages can this be found, Yet these contradict so many parts of scripture. people should see their interpretation is wrong.

It is just mans way of saying I want credit, I want to earn it. So if I want to earn it, I must admit I can lose it.

it is called pride. Which is the root cause of sin in the first place.

 
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Mammachickadee

Guest
#92
So am I.

I am a dispensationalsit. Yes Some believe in multiple gospels.

I do not

So if your going to discuss this, and discuss my belief. Then give me the common courtesy to not tell me what I, and many others like me, believe.

Get off the scofield darby bandwagon, and listen to what others say!!
I actually dissect things that are Scofield with a doctrinal scalpel starting with his views of creation. As a theistic evolutionist he tends to have a rather inaccurate view of God's providence and sovereignty. He's far from agreeable doctrinally. Not sure what you are seeing...
Yes, you have quite the right to your opinion. When I state most dispensationalist you must fall in the "rest" category. ;-)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#93
I actually dissect things that are Scofield with a doctrinal scalpel starting with his views of creation. As a theistic evolutionist he tends to have a rather inaccurate view of God's providence and sovereignty. He's far from agreeable doctrinally. Not sure what you are seeing...
Yes, you have quite the right to your opinion. When I state most dispensationalist you must fall in the "rest" category. ;-)
I know of very few dispensationalists who believe in dual covenant, I also know very few ammilenials (only ones I truely know are in here) so i do not know who the "most" you are talking about are.

I am retired military, so I have known many people in many states.. so use this as context when you interpret who I knew or knew..
 
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Mammachickadee

Guest
#94
Yes. We are saved by faith, and not of ourselves

God is faithfull even if we are faithless.

Eternal life is eternal. never is it called conditiona.

We are given the seal of the spirit

No where are we told one can lose salvation. Only in misinterpreting certain passages can this be found, Yet these contradict so many parts of scripture. people should see their interpretation is wrong.

It is just mans way of saying I want credit, I want to earn it. So if I want to earn it, I must admit I can lose it.

it is called pride. Which is the root cause of sin in the first place.

Not sure where you are seeing a difference of opinion as far as perseverance of the saints goes. I have the verses charted for when I come across persons who are struggling with certainty of their salvation. Interesting, though, that you would state that an ability to earn salvation results in ability to lose one's salvation. That is an excellent rebuttle to anyone who believes physical baptism is required for salvation. That, however, is for a different thread. ;-)
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#95
No will is violated, God or man's. He changes man's will, because he destroys the heart that produce that will and puts in a new heart with a new will. By implication man's will is violated, but in reality it has only been violated in so much as it no longer exists due to it's source being destroyed.
Did Adam choose to sin in the garden? Adam was not deceived, Eve was deceived. If Adam chose to follow Eve in sin then Adam had a free will. A free will now corrupted through sin. Man ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The burden of that knowledge is the necessity of choice. John 3:19 Jesus tells us that men choose Light or darkness. Their reasons are clear but they do have a choice to make. Men in Romans 1:32 choose sin even though they know the consequences. To say that men cannot choose is to say they cannot breathe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Mammachickadee

Guest
#96
I know of very few dispensationalists who believe in dual covenant, I also know very few ammilenials (only ones I truely know are in here) so i do not know who the "most" you are talking about are.

I am retired military, so I have known many people in many states.. so use this as context when you interpret who I knew or knew..
Would you mind delineating where ammilenialism fits into the discussion?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#97
Not sure where you are seeing a difference of opinion as far as perseverance of the saints goes. I have the verses charted for when I come across persons who are struggling with certainty of their salvation. Interesting, though, that you would state that an ability to earn salvation results in ability to lose one's salvation. That is an excellent rebuttle to anyone who believes physical baptism is required for salvation. That, however, is for a different thread. ;-)
I am not seeing one, if you believe in eternal security, we believe as one in this area. and this is a good thing.

we both rely and trust God to save us,, we were saved by faith in his work, not our work.
 
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Mammachickadee

Guest
#98
djames1958, This, "faith only" sal. is not found in the Bible. It is of the Devil! You guys corrected somethings; but you when from the frying pan into the fire. You have created an apostate church which will be "left behind' at the rapture.
As one believing in election I gotta ask "who died and made you God" with as much respect as I can. NOONE but God can state who is or is not justified.
 
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Mammachickadee

Guest
#99
I am not seeing one, if you believe in eternal security, we believe as one in this area. and this is a good thing.

we both rely and trust God to save us,, we were saved by faith in his work, not our work.
Oh cool! lol
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Would you mind delineating where ammilenialism fits into the discussion?
If you are not ammilenial, You must believe in dispensations.

I was trying to show you out of the thousands of people I have known, or went to church with, or came across who are christians. I have met very few dual covenant dispensationalists. and ammillenialists.

Most of them are dispensations who believe in salvation by faith alone in the grace of God throughout ALL dispensations.

When I was young, My father got me a scofield reference kjv. I loved studying his notes.. From what I remember, this is the only dual covenant teaching I have heard. and I may even be wrong about this, it has beeen so long I owuld have to get my bible out again and look at his notes.

However, I do remember as a young Christian believing during the tribulation, Isreal would go back to being saved by law. A friend of mine got me to question this and study it, And I found it to be in error.

and this friend was a pre-trib dispensationalists.