Does God chose people?
- Thread starter Channa
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
John 3:16 (KJV) [SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 (NASB) [SUP]16 [/SUP]"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16 (NLT) [SUP]16 [/SUP]“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
This is the heart of the NT. Looks simple enough. EVEN THE PARAPHRASE gets it right, yet fools will not believe it. Strange how some preach whosoever out of one side of their mouth, then say God has prechosen His elect & nobody can change it out of the other side of their mouth.
Romans 12:3 (KJV) [SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Whyyyyyyyyyy would God deal unto everybody the measure of faith when only a "few" preselected ones would need it?
John 3:16 (NASB) [SUP]16 [/SUP]"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16 (NLT) [SUP]16 [/SUP]“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
This is the heart of the NT. Looks simple enough. EVEN THE PARAPHRASE gets it right, yet fools will not believe it. Strange how some preach whosoever out of one side of their mouth, then say God has prechosen His elect & nobody can change it out of the other side of their mouth.
Romans 12:3 (KJV) [SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Whyyyyyyyyyy would God deal unto everybody the measure of faith when only a "few" preselected ones would need it?
K
The way you have to look at it is this way. We spread the good news around in front of people some where here God's message and accept it...that is how they are chosen. The others that don't accept it will continue to walk in their sinful ways and deny Him. Our Lords message is strong enough to call ones heart to salvation, some will still have a hard heart and resist.
P
Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue,
Romans 9:7-11 (ESV) this is about Gods covenant with Abraham and the end result is our lord JESUS CHRIST
Romans 9:7-11 (ESV) this is about Gods covenant with Abraham and the end result is our lord JESUS CHRIST
S
Sigh*
Election does not nullify John 3:16 or any verse that says if we believe we are saved. Matter of fact John 3:16 is supportive to unconditional election.
One way or another, you can't dismiss what the bible says about predestination.
Not only that, but Romans 12:3 ALSO is used for doctrines of election...
Election does not nullify John 3:16 or any verse that says if we believe we are saved. Matter of fact John 3:16 is supportive to unconditional election.
One way or another, you can't dismiss what the bible says about predestination.
Not only that, but Romans 12:3 ALSO is used for doctrines of election...
Philippians 3:8-14 (KJV) [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, [SUP]14 [/SUP]I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Who are the "elect"? Those that press on in faith in Jesus Christ. Those that endure until the end. Those that "keep on keeping on".
Who are the "elect"? Those that press on in faith in Jesus Christ. Those that endure until the end. Those that "keep on keeping on".
S
Ephesians 1:3-6 NASB
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved."
Romans 8:28-30 NASB
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."
Philippians 1:6 NASB
"For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."
So then it is not us who hold on to Christ, but Christ who holds on to us. He is the finisher of our faith, not us.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved."
Romans 8:28-30 NASB
"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."
Philippians 1:6 NASB
"For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."
So then it is not us who hold on to Christ, but Christ who holds on to us. He is the finisher of our faith, not us.
M
Romans 8
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
S
Acts 13:44-48 NASB
"The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of the Lord. But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming. Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us, 'I have placed You as a light for the Gentiles, that You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.'" When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
"The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of the Lord. But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming. Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us, 'I have placed You as a light for the Gentiles, that You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.'" When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
S
John 10:22-30 NASB
At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
We see here that Jesus specifically says that the reason why the Pharisees didn't believe was because they weren't His sheep, not the other way around. He also says that He gives eternal life to His sheep, not that they will be His sheep when they receive it. If He is giving it to His sheep, they must have not had it before while still being His.
There is no examples outside the fact that God chose those who will believe, thus receiving salvation. Jesus also said many are called but few are chosen. A general call of repentance may be for all, but only the few who take the offer (for whom it was purposed for) will be the ones who are chosen will believe.
Jesus is the only way to be saved.
At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
We see here that Jesus specifically says that the reason why the Pharisees didn't believe was because they weren't His sheep, not the other way around. He also says that He gives eternal life to His sheep, not that they will be His sheep when they receive it. If He is giving it to His sheep, they must have not had it before while still being His.
There is no examples outside the fact that God chose those who will believe, thus receiving salvation. Jesus also said many are called but few are chosen. A general call of repentance may be for all, but only the few who take the offer (for whom it was purposed for) will be the ones who are chosen will believe.
Jesus is the only way to be saved.
So, for John 10:22-30 you are inserting the assumption that it could be predestination. The text does not say that one is a sheep because they were predestined to be sheep.
Then you jump to a declarative assertion without giving any evidence, other than these two, which in neither case actually states all the saved were predestined to be saved?
My other question, why the call, it is just theater. If predestination is actually the way one is saved, then there is no need to call. They are saved the moment of inception.
Saying Jesus is the only way to be saved, does not show predestination.
Then you jump to a declarative assertion without giving any evidence, other than these two, which in neither case actually states all the saved were predestined to be saved?
My other question, why the call, it is just theater. If predestination is actually the way one is saved, then there is no need to call. They are saved the moment of inception.
Saying Jesus is the only way to be saved, does not show predestination.
S
I'm not inserting anything, if you read it, it will point at least five things to the reader.
1. Pharasees didn't believe because they aren't His sheep (v.26).
2. The sheep hears and follows Him, and He knows them (v. 27)
3. He gives eternal life to His sheep (v. 28).
4. The Father is the One gives them to Jesus (v. 29).
5. No one can snatch them out of His hand, (they are one) (v. 29).
Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient for all, but it's purpose is to redeem the ones who were predestined for. If anyone believes, they are saved. Anyone who trusts in Christ and His atoning work is saved.
Saying Jesus is the only way does not nullify unconditional election. If it does, there is a misunderstanding.
1. Pharasees didn't believe because they aren't His sheep (v.26).
2. The sheep hears and follows Him, and He knows them (v. 27)
3. He gives eternal life to His sheep (v. 28).
4. The Father is the One gives them to Jesus (v. 29).
5. No one can snatch them out of His hand, (they are one) (v. 29).
Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient for all, but it's purpose is to redeem the ones who were predestined for. If anyone believes, they are saved. Anyone who trusts in Christ and His atoning work is saved.
Saying Jesus is the only way does not nullify unconditional election. If it does, there is a misunderstanding.
God does not chose people for salvation, if He did, that would make Him a respecter of people, and that would make Him a sinner.
The Bible says (At least eight times) that God isn't a respecter of people.
The Bible says,
WHOSOEVER believes, are saved.
God is the saviour of ALL people.
God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself.
But the individual has to believe, reopen and get born again, And that is the individuals choice, Not God's.
The Bible says (At least eight times) that God isn't a respecter of people.
The Bible says,
WHOSOEVER believes, are saved.
God is the saviour of ALL people.
God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself.
But the individual has to believe, reopen and get born again, And that is the individuals choice, Not God's.
S
No it does not make Him a respector of person. Being a respector of persons means that God favors people for outward conditions such as wealth, race, ethnic, etc. If God chose certain people to salvation before they were born, then it's perfectly just.
I agree with you that 'whosoever believes' are saved. But it is apparent in John 6:44 says that no one can come to Jesus unless God draws them.
A person must first be born again before they can believe the gospel (John 3:3, 1 Cor. 2:12-13). It's God who causes you to be born again, not you! For John 1:13 even says that it's not by the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man who are born again, but of the will of God. Verse 12 says those who believe in His name become children of God.
I agree with you that 'whosoever believes' are saved. But it is apparent in John 6:44 says that no one can come to Jesus unless God draws them.
A person must first be born again before they can believe the gospel (John 3:3, 1 Cor. 2:12-13). It's God who causes you to be born again, not you! For John 1:13 even says that it's not by the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man who are born again, but of the will of God. Verse 12 says those who believe in His name become children of God.
You have overlooked Acts 10: 34--35. Anyone,
You have overlooked John 12: 32. Everyone.
God draws all people to Himself by the Holy Spirit, But people have to chose to believe, repent and be born again.
If God did the choosing , That would make Him a respecter of persons, And that would make Him a sinner.
One must believe the gospel before they get born again, Mark 16: 15--16. Rom 10: 13--17.
John 3: 3 and 1 Cor 2: 12--13 doesn't say anything about God doing the choosing.
John 1: 12 CLEARLY SAYS, "As MANY as received Him", [Jesus].
It's the will of God that everyone is born again, 1 Tim 4: 10.
You have overlooked 1 Tim 4: 11. We are commanded to teach that God is the saviour of ALL MEN, But the individual has to chose to believe, repent and get born again.