Christ fulfilled the law ...by doing what was required of the law...and he himself became the offering required by law to remit sin....if the law had ceased then there is nothing to condemn anyone....the law is done away only in Christ anyone outside of Christ is condemn by the law...abiding in Christ through faith is now the standard for righteousness recognised by God...
Done Away?
- Thread starter Hizikyah
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Even when we who are in Christ sin, the Scriptures say that God does not count our sins against us:
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. (from 2 Cor. 5)
That's why we can believe this:
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (from Rom. 8)
Because we are dead to the Law:
4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. (from Rom. 7)
No part of the Law has anything to do with those in Christ; we are dead to the Law.
-JGIG
James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
what does it mean to be in Christ?????
1 John 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
so if one sin he should read James 1:13-15 to see how he got there and what happens when sin is finished...
C
Isaiah 59:14-15 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off:
for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isaiah 59:14-15 Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands far off. For truth has stumbled in the street, and uprightness cannot enter. So now truth is missing, and whoever shuns evil becomes prey. Now when Yahwah saw it, it was displeasing in His eyes that there was no justice.
for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isaiah 59:14-15 Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands far off. For truth has stumbled in the street, and uprightness cannot enter. So now truth is missing, and whoever shuns evil becomes prey. Now when Yahwah saw it, it was displeasing in His eyes that there was no justice.
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C
There were NO paragraph seperations in the books and letters of the Bible.
One has to Keep Going right through Romans 8 to understand Romans 7 At All and preferably start with Chpt 6 first.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
AND
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
One has to Keep Going right through Romans 8 to understand Romans 7 At All and preferably start with Chpt 6 first.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
AND
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
K
Matt 5:17-18, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them,but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Jesus fulfilled the old law- He was the only one to live it perfectly, then He nailed it to the cross and said that it was finished, so we no longer have to live under the old law. (Colossians 2:14). Think about it, do we still have priests sacrifice animals for our sins? When did that stop? It stopped when Jesus completed it (the old law). Did heaven and earth pass away before He completed it? No. And before He completed it not the smallest letter passed away from the law UNTIL Christ perfected it. And when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears (1 Cor 13:10).
For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins (Hebrews 4:10). Where is the perfection in an old way that don't work? When Christ died He died once for all in the past, and all in the future, who would obey God. We now have the complete bible and the perfect law of grace. Jesus purposely adds these details and parables because He wants us to look closely and study hard. But people trip over what is written before the word 'until' because they didn't continue deep in thought for the rest of the verse.
Jesus fulfilled the old law- He was the only one to live it perfectly, then He nailed it to the cross and said that it was finished, so we no longer have to live under the old law. (Colossians 2:14). Think about it, do we still have priests sacrifice animals for our sins? When did that stop? It stopped when Jesus completed it (the old law). Did heaven and earth pass away before He completed it? No. And before He completed it not the smallest letter passed away from the law UNTIL Christ perfected it. And when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears (1 Cor 13:10).
For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins (Hebrews 4:10). Where is the perfection in an old way that don't work? When Christ died He died once for all in the past, and all in the future, who would obey God. We now have the complete bible and the perfect law of grace. Jesus purposely adds these details and parables because He wants us to look closely and study hard. But people trip over what is written before the word 'until' because they didn't continue deep in thought for the rest of the verse.
Which is why in Christ God has determined not to hold our sins against us - the judgement for sin was doled out at the Cross - once for all.
The wages of sin is death - yes - and was paid by Christ in full at the Cross. In Him, we died with Him and were raised again in Him to a New Covenant, one where our sins are not counted against us.
Our righteousness is not determined by now well we don't sin (not transgress laws), but by who we are in Christ. I know it seems counterintuitive, but the more we understand who we are in Christ, the less we will sin. From what I've observed over the past 35 years, the more one delves into the Law, sin will increase, especially in the areas of pride, self-righteousness, arrogance, and slander. Those who become so discouraged by those holding Law over them often end up with lives in shambles, some even walking away from the religious systems that purport to represent Christ in this world. Sometimes that's a good thing, and they get free and learn to rest in Christ and His Grace; sometimes they also walk away from God (though He never forsakes them), which is very sad.
One only need look at the fruit of Law vs. the Fruit of Grace to see where God's hand is at work today.
-JGIG
The wages of sin is death - yes - and was paid by Christ in full at the Cross. In Him, we died with Him and were raised again in Him to a New Covenant, one where our sins are not counted against us.
19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” (from Gal. 2)
Our righteousness is not determined by now well we don't sin (not transgress laws), but by who we are in Christ. I know it seems counterintuitive, but the more we understand who we are in Christ, the less we will sin. From what I've observed over the past 35 years, the more one delves into the Law, sin will increase, especially in the areas of pride, self-righteousness, arrogance, and slander. Those who become so discouraged by those holding Law over them often end up with lives in shambles, some even walking away from the religious systems that purport to represent Christ in this world. Sometimes that's a good thing, and they get free and learn to rest in Christ and His Grace; sometimes they also walk away from God (though He never forsakes them), which is very sad.
One only need look at the fruit of Law vs. the Fruit of Grace to see where God's hand is at work today.
-JGIG
Yes, including the parts where the Scriptures make clear that Christ is not the High Priest for the Old Covenant (being of the Tribe of Judah, not of the Tribe of Levi), but for the New Covenant. Not only that, but His Priesthood is irrevocable, based on the power of an indestructible Life AND by an oath from God - two immovable forces.
We will all be learning through study our whole lives through, Word_Swordsman, even you
.
You have believed an interpretation of Ezekiel's prophecies, just as we all have, for various reasons. That does not make the interpretation to which you have attached yourself the correct interpretation.
And what you propose below, while it likely will happen (Temple sacrifices, reinstitution of Old Covenant Law), it will be an abomination to the Work of Christ, not overseen by Him with approval.
See, one with a thinner skin would deduce that you were grouping me in with those you speak of in the statement above, simply because I disagree with your interpretation of an oft and widely contested portion of Scripture.
Let me assure you that I do read my Bible and thoroughly study - and the more I do so, the larger Christ and his Work - His Death, Resurrection, Ascension, and Perfect Permanent High Priesthood looms, as He should.
EVERY interpretation of unrevealed prophecy should be viewed through the Work of Christ - a revealed Work.
An eternal memorial to what? The Work of Christ? The Law memorializes sin - it never takes it away, just covers it - always to be seen and remembered, even though covered by the blood of bulls and goats.
In contrast, the Blood of Christ takes away all sins - to be cast as far as the East is from the West, and never to be counted against those in Him again.
What memorializes the Blood of Christ? Going back to the old practices of offering bulls and goats?
No!
Christ Himself instituted the memorial to His Work - in the Last Supper. We eat the bread and drink the wine in remembrance of His Work - Him - and who we are in Him.
To go back to the inferior in the presence of the superior is unthinkable.
Some interesting thoughts there.
Note that Christ did not perform His act of offering Himself as a Priest, but as the Perfect Sacrifice under the Old Covenant. The shedding of His Blood fulfilled the requirements of the Old Covenant, and INSTITUTED the New Covenant, of which He IS the High Priest (again - very important to distinguish here that Christ's lineage is NOT that of the Old Covenant High Priesthood, Levi, but of the Line of Judah, and that change is permanent based on both the power of an indestructible Life and by an oath from God).
However the logistics of the Levitical High Priest's offering Christ up in crucifixion actually played out, it is clear that God accepted the Sacrifice of Christ, and then installed Him in a New Priesthood of a New Covenant.
Again, you are holding to an interpretation of that passage. That interpretation does present some big problems, which I discuss here: Millennial Prophecy: Measuring Unrevealed Prophecies in Light of Revealed Truths
Again, unrevealed prophecy must be subject to revealed Truth, in this case, the complete Work of Christ and His Permanent High Priesthood of the New Covenant.
And they are doing so in error, clinging to the Old Covenant in Moses; rejecting the New Covenant in Christ. We should not be supporting that effort, but bringing the Gospel of Grace to Israel (and to every other tribe and nation, as well) while loving them well.
-JGIG
We will all be learning through study our whole lives through, Word_Swordsman, even you
. You have believed an interpretation of Ezekiel's prophecies, just as we all have, for various reasons. That does not make the interpretation to which you have attached yourself the correct interpretation.
And what you propose below, while it likely will happen (Temple sacrifices, reinstitution of Old Covenant Law), it will be an abomination to the Work of Christ, not overseen by Him with approval.
See, one with a thinner skin would deduce that you were grouping me in with those you speak of in the statement above, simply because I disagree with your interpretation of an oft and widely contested portion of Scripture.
Let me assure you that I do read my Bible and thoroughly study - and the more I do so, the larger Christ and his Work - His Death, Resurrection, Ascension, and Perfect Permanent High Priesthood looms, as He should.
EVERY interpretation of unrevealed prophecy should be viewed through the Work of Christ - a revealed Work.
An eternal memorial to what? The Work of Christ? The Law memorializes sin - it never takes it away, just covers it - always to be seen and remembered, even though covered by the blood of bulls and goats.
In contrast, the Blood of Christ takes away all sins - to be cast as far as the East is from the West, and never to be counted against those in Him again.
What memorializes the Blood of Christ? Going back to the old practices of offering bulls and goats?
No!
Christ Himself instituted the memorial to His Work - in the Last Supper. We eat the bread and drink the wine in remembrance of His Work - Him - and who we are in Him.
To go back to the inferior in the presence of the superior is unthinkable.
Some interesting thoughts there.
Note that Christ did not perform His act of offering Himself as a Priest, but as the Perfect Sacrifice under the Old Covenant. The shedding of His Blood fulfilled the requirements of the Old Covenant, and INSTITUTED the New Covenant, of which He IS the High Priest (again - very important to distinguish here that Christ's lineage is NOT that of the Old Covenant High Priesthood, Levi, but of the Line of Judah, and that change is permanent based on both the power of an indestructible Life and by an oath from God).
However the logistics of the Levitical High Priest's offering Christ up in crucifixion actually played out, it is clear that God accepted the Sacrifice of Christ, and then installed Him in a New Priesthood of a New Covenant.
Again, you are holding to an interpretation of that passage. That interpretation does present some big problems, which I discuss here: Millennial Prophecy: Measuring Unrevealed Prophecies in Light of Revealed Truths
Again, unrevealed prophecy must be subject to revealed Truth, in this case, the complete Work of Christ and His Permanent High Priesthood of the New Covenant.
And they are doing so in error, clinging to the Old Covenant in Moses; rejecting the New Covenant in Christ. We should not be supporting that effort, but bringing the Gospel of Grace to Israel (and to every other tribe and nation, as well) while loving them well.
-JGIG
Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Ga 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
You mentioned before Jesus fulfilled the Law for us all..non could , not Jew nor Gentile
on the mount Moses (the LAW ) and Elias (Elijah the prophets) fulfilled..at Christ death the vale rent in two ..full access to all who believe into the holy of hollies...
Mt 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Ga 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
You mentioned before Jesus fulfilled the Law for us all..non could , not Jew nor Gentile
on the mount Moses (the LAW ) and Elias (Elijah the prophets) fulfilled..at Christ death the vale rent in two ..full access to all who believe into the holy of hollies...
Mt 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
You post Mat 5:17-18 and then say that He nailed it to the cross?
So, the animal sacrifices (the schoolmaster) didn't pay for sin? Of course it did not. That is what Hebrews 9 and 10 are about. The animal sacrifices were never supposed to pay the death penalty, they were the schoolmaster, the shadow, the reminder that a perfect sacrifice had to come...
When we read this...
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
It should be easy to see that the subject matter here is sacrifices.
By the way, have sacrifices been done away with? Or does sin still require blood?
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
What changed is the Law of sacrifices was satisfied by the blood of Jesus Christ. That Law is still in effect today, sin still requires blood. Thankfully for us, the blood that was spilled for it was Christ's and it is worth enough to pay the price for all of us. We do not have to have our own blood shed to pay for our sins.
So, the animal sacrifices (the schoolmaster) didn't pay for sin? Of course it did not. That is what Hebrews 9 and 10 are about. The animal sacrifices were never supposed to pay the death penalty, they were the schoolmaster, the shadow, the reminder that a perfect sacrifice had to come...
When we read this...
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
It should be easy to see that the subject matter here is sacrifices.
By the way, have sacrifices been done away with? Or does sin still require blood?
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
What changed is the Law of sacrifices was satisfied by the blood of Jesus Christ. That Law is still in effect today, sin still requires blood. Thankfully for us, the blood that was spilled for it was Christ's and it is worth enough to pay the price for all of us. We do not have to have our own blood shed to pay for our sins.
"What Does Colossians 2:14 Really Say?
It is of interest to note that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" is a Greek legal term that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--through Jesus the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"), not the law! "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them" (Heb 10:16).
Even Protestant commentators realize this. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:
Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,
1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).
Some will argue that you still cannot keep the ten commandments (for "all have sinned"), even if they are all mentioned as being in effect after the crucifixion. Does this mean one should not try?
Furthermore, let's look at another translation:
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NASB)
The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.
Which requirements were wiped out?
Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!" - Dr. Robert Thiel
It is of interest to note that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" is a Greek legal term that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--through Jesus the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"), not the law! "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them" (Heb 10:16).
Even Protestant commentators realize this. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:
Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,
1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).
Some will argue that you still cannot keep the ten commandments (for "all have sinned"), even if they are all mentioned as being in effect after the crucifixion. Does this mean one should not try?
Furthermore, let's look at another translation:
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NASB)
The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.
Which requirements were wiped out?
Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!" - Dr. Robert Thiel
Yes, if there were no law then there would be no transgression.
Heb 10:9 "Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second."
Christ did not end the OT law and did nothing more, but Christ ended the OT law and establish a second law, His NT law that men are under today and transgress by not keeping that NT law.
Note how Heb 10:9 says Christ taketh away the first that he MAY establish the second. Both laws CANNOT co-exist side by side for they are two different, non-compatible laws with one based on the blood of bulls and goats and the other on the blood of Christ.
Heb 10:9 "Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second."
Christ did not end the OT law and did nothing more, but Christ ended the OT law and establish a second law, His NT law that men are under today and transgress by not keeping that NT law.
Note how Heb 10:9 says Christ taketh away the first that he MAY establish the second. Both laws CANNOT co-exist side by side for they are two different, non-compatible laws with one based on the blood of bulls and goats and the other on the blood of Christ.
IN Rom 3 when Paul concluded all under sin he was talking about the two groups, Jew and Gentile that lived under the OT law. Under those OT laws there was no blood of Christ, under those OT laws man could not be justified and at the end of Rom 3 Paul gives the remedy to those Jews and Gentiles, that remedy being justification through Christ. Those Jews and Gentiles that obeyed from the heart (becoming Christians) are then freed from sin Rom 6:17,18, ie, no longer under sin that the OT law keep men under not being able to be justified under those OT laws.
Rom 8:1 there is no condemnation to them that are conditionally 'in Christ". Those Christians in Christ are under law, as Paul said he was under law to Christ, 1 Cor 9:21 and as long as the Christian keeps Christ's NT law he remains in Christ, no condemnation.
So I scratch my head at those that want to keep the OT law going and active when it did not justify but only brought God's wrath upon man, Rom 4:15.
K
I think you need to go read that again, because Matthew 24 is about the end time tribulation days.
Not what happened back in 70 AD, as the scriptures he gave you was Matthew 24:29-31 and this is what they say;
[h=1]Matthew 24:29-31[/h][h=3]The Coming of the Son of Man[/h]29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This is the verses John832 gave you from the bible, and not one of this was fulfilled back in 70AD.
This is all part of the tribulation period, and the time immediately after it. This is what you said was fulfilled back 70AD that he gave you, which is why I said did not happen.
Not what happened back in 70 AD, as the scriptures he gave you was Matthew 24:29-31 and this is what they say;
[h=1]Matthew 24:29-31[/h][h=3]The Coming of the Son of Man[/h]29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This is the verses John832 gave you from the bible, and not one of this was fulfilled back in 70AD.
This is all part of the tribulation period, and the time immediately after it. This is what you said was fulfilled back 70AD that he gave you, which is why I said did not happen.
Hi,
In Mt 24:1,2 Jesus showed them the buildings in Jerusalem and said "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down"
Mt 24:3 "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, (1) Tell us, when shall these things be? and (2) what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
The disciples here in verse 3 ask Jesus two questions:
First question: "tell us when shall these things be" refers to the buildings being thrown down in Jerusalem.
Second questions is about the second coming of Christ: "and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
Jesus begins by answering their first question first about the buildings being thrown down in verses 4-35.
Jesus then answers their second question about His second coming in verses 36 onward.
In answering their question about Jerusalem being destroyed, buildings being thrown down, Jesus speaks of those dayS" plural for the Roman siege lasted for a few weeks. Yet note in verse 36 when Jesus begins to answer the question about His second coming he speaks of a specific, singular "day".
So the first question dealt with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army in AD70 and the signs associated with that attack and is NOT about signs of Christ's second coming.
I know this off topic to the thread but below is a link that covers in more detail the two questions asked and how they were answered by Christ for anyone interested:
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/19-study-of-matthew-24-a
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