You may believe in multiple baptisms, but scripture has ONLY ONE.
Even though there are baptism
s (plural - Hebrews 6:2), there is only
one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is
Spirit baptism (by
one Spirit we were all
baptized into one body - 1 Corinthians 12:13),
not water baptism. The Bible does not teach that only ONE baptism exists. In Matthew 3:11 we see 3 baptisms. I
baptize you with 1.
WATER for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will
baptize you with the 2.
HOLY SPIRIT and 3.
FIRE. The Israelites were
baptized into Moses (1 Corinthians 10:2), which is not water baptism. In Luke 12:50, Jesus said - But I have a
baptism to be
baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished! Jesus was not talking about water baptism here, but being immersed into suffering, namely, His death on the cross.
It has been water baptism from the very beginning. Described in detail in the most early writings.
In the Bible or in FALLIBLE WRITINGS OF MEN? That's what I thought.
Roman Catholics often quote the Church Fathers in regards to proving the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration. It may come as a surprise to Roman Catholics that they do not follow these Fathers in their unscriptural inventions. For example it was common practice that the candidate was immersed three times, whereas the modern Catholic rite consists of pouring water on the head. Before baptism, the candidate was anointed with "oil of exorcism" while the presbyter prayed, "Let all spirits flee far away from you." Apart from the fact that there is no scriptural warrant for this anointing, they were also mistaken in their belief that this oil served for the remission of sins even before baptism:
Now this is blessed by the high priest for the remission of sins, and the first preparation for baptism. For he calls thus upon the unbegotten God, the Father of Christ, the King of all sensible and intelligible natures, that He would sanctify the oil in the name of the Lord Jesus, and impart to it spiritual grace and efficacious strength, the remission of sins, and the first preparation for the confession of baptism, that so the candidate for baptism, when he is anointed may be freed from all ungodliness, and may become worthy of initiation, according to the command of the Only-begotten (Apostolic Constitutions, XLII)
During baptism, the candidates had to remove their clothing and stand naked in the water. The newly baptized was not allowed to take a bath for a whole week.
We do not feel obliged to follow the fathers in their unscriptural inventions, changing the simple ordinance of Christ into a superstition, not to mention their disregard for public decency. (See Tertullian, The Crown; St Hippolytus of Rome, The Apostolic Tradition). These are the same people who insisted on baptismal regeneration.
I was reading an article in "The Ex-Catholic Journal" that says some of the writings attributed to the Church Fathers have been found to be forgeries, while others have been taken out of context. Doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the papacy, purgatory and transubstantiation are alleged to be supported in these early writings. I hear Roman Catholics quote the Church Fathers a lot to support their doctrines. The article went on to say that most of the copies of copies of copies of the Church Fathers that we possess today were copied during the time that the Roman Catholic church controlled the flow of literature in Europe. We do not have any original copies of their writings, only copies of copies of copies. God promised to preserve HIS WORD, but not these fallible writings of men.
Spirit baptism as you call it happens in water baptism.
False. It did not happen in John's baptism. Matthew 3:11 - I
baptize you with water for repentance, BUT He who is coming
after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals;
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. The Gentiles received
the gift of the Holy Spirit BEFORE water baptism. Acts 10:43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever
believes in Him will receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because
the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 -
the gift of the Holy Spirit) had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them
speak with tongues (gift which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12)
and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Can
anyone forbid water, that
these should not be baptized who
HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT just as we have?" Your theory was just blown out of the water!
Referring back to the event that took place in Acts 10:43-47, we read in Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same
gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us
when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (BEFORE WATER BAPTISM) who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles
repentance unto life. Acts 15:8 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by
giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made
no distinction between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith.
Your false assumption I that the Holy Spirit cannot use water for the purpose of baptism.
The Holy Spirit does not use plain ordinary H20 to cleanse the heart from sin. Living water does that (John 4:10,14; 7:37-39). This is signified, but not procured in the waters of baptism.
Of course this is why you and most Protestants deny all of the sacraments as well.
Protestants? ALL the sacraments? You are sounding like a Roman Catholic again.
God cannot use His creation to convey grace because according to the Gnostic view, material is evil. It also holds to Zwingli, the first reformer that denied the sacraments as having any meaning.
You spend too much time reading fallible writings of men which man's wisdom teaches.
Show me any evidence that the early Church practiced more than one baptism as well as one being ONLY Spirit baptism.
I find my answers in God's Word, not fallible writings of men. ONE baptism does not mean that ONLY ONE baptism has ever existed. You fail to make a category distinction. There is only ONE baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is
SPIRIT baptism (1 Corinthians 12:13),
not water baptism.
You are even confusing baptism with receiving the Holy Spirit. They are not even the same thing. One is baptized, then receives the Holy Spirit.
No, you are confusing water baptism with Spirit baptism. They are not even the same thing (Matthew 3:11). One receives the Holy Spirit when one believes the gospel, then afterwards is water baptized (Acts 10:43-47). In Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the
gospel of your salvation - having also
believed, you were
sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
It is in scripture. Water and the Spirit, John 3:5 is the ONLY way to enter the kingdom.
John 3:5 has often been misused as if being born again is somehow the direct result of water baptism. It is assumed, without any proof whatsoever, that “water” signifies baptism. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. Jesus was not teaching baptismal regeneration in John 3:5 and spiritual washing or purification of the soul is accomplished by the Holy Spirit (the source of living water) and not plain ordinary H20. Notice the word "drink(s)" (John 4:10,14; 7:37-39) and notice "drink into one Spirit" in 1 Corinthians 12:13.
Rom 6 is called the baptism chapter and describes exactly what happens when one is water baptized. Water in ancient times in the OT was a symbol of both death and life. This is the very same experience one has with water baptism. We are immersed into death, we rise to new life.
You had it right when you said SYMBOL. The symbol (water baptism) is not the reality (Spirit baptism) but a picture of the reality. In Romans 6:4, the phrase "buried with Him through baptism," on the surface seems to support the idea that baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation. However, even here baptism could be understood as the symbol, not the reality. It is not unusual in Scripture to call the reality by the name of its sign. Thus, for example, Paul says that all Christians are circumcised (even though one may not be physically circumcised) - meaning that they possess what circumcision signifies (Philippians 3:3). Using this kind of language, Paul can speak of the great reality of the believers’ spiritual union with Christ, and the benefits which flow from that union, in terms of baptism, its sign. We are forced to give this interpretation by the context. Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not water baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16; 3:22-30; 4:4-6, 13; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which
water baptism symbolizes and pictures. Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised up because of our justification" (Romans 4:24,25). Since believers receive the benefits of Christ’s death and resurrection (justification), and that through faith, believers must be spiritually united to Him (delivered and raised up with Him). If baptism is taken as the instrumental cause, then Paul contradicts what he had established before, namely that salvation/justification is through FAITH, not water baptism.
I have found the Truth in scriptures but the Truth is based on the Revelation of the Holy Spirit from the beginning. Truth is not based on many men's personal interpretative theories that have no historical record.
You only think that you have found the Truth, but you have been duped by your church and so have Roman Catholics. It's the history of God's infallible word that counts and not fallible writings of men which can be wrong and manipulated.
Your theories are simply sectarian philosophical ideas but has no reality.
Your theories are based on the teachings of your church and not Scripture. Let me know when you are ready to REPENT and BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.
Which obviously then you cannot even believe in the Same Christ, who is Head of His Church, enlivened by the Holy Spirit. You have accepted philosophical concepts and formed your own personal religion. Christ stated that His way was the ONLY way. Unless you can show that the Holy Spirit changed His mind and gave individual men new revelation for modern times you are holding to unscriptural ideas. Ideas that have never been held from the beginning.
Christ is the ONLY way. No one comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS (John 14:6). I have no personal religion, I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I believe in the name of the Son of God and I KNOW that I have eternal life (1 John 5:13). Praise God! You can continue to use fallible writings of men in order to establish your version of the truth and remain in UNBELIEF if you wish, but count me out. I'm not interested in your works based false gospel, your flawed religion, your flawed human logic or your fallible writings of men. Christ's finished work of redemption and God's Word is sufficient for me.
