Faith is our righteousness - Christ is our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins

[eternally-gratefull]

FreeNChrist - EG has this thing about OSAS. So that is what it always centres on.

No unless others actually participate to bring light to an issue it just can be, that is rubbish, which does not progress anything, it is just an opinion. So are you will to contribute or just put your rejection but not the reason.

See there you go lying again.

EG has a thing about Gods promise of eternal life to everyone who believes.

About Gods promise that whoever believes in him will never hunger, never thirst, never die, never perish, Has eternal life.. etc etc.

EG has a thing about people denying what John says is our hope. Eternal life. And how God, can not lie, promised it to all who believe before time began.

OSAS, thats just a side issue,

 

[PeterJens]

Let me get this clear

Calvanist believe in OSAS, or eternal security. Armenians do not. They put faith as an overiding restriction.
If someone calls me to follow OSAS I will declare my opposition based of the theological schools of thought.
Now someone might say, oh but I am not a calvanist, so that is a lie. I am making clear my position and divide.

Now I have been called to repent. Now if I am to repent, I have to have commited particular sin. In the general sense I have repented of my sins and been forgiven in Christ. So for a christian to call me further to repent, I am at a loss.
This has been a continual theme, which I have summarised in my reply.

Dispensationalism is taking various parts of scripture and saying they apply to certain people and not others.
I am told by taking Jesus's command to obey Him is being a legalist and was actually written only to the Jews. This type of language is dispensational language. That is its theological root. Now I reject this theology.

I fail to grasp again that this is not simple and confirm my diagnosis of a personality disorder. These simple facts should not create all this heat. It is ludicrous. Do people believe what they claim to believe or is it just smoke and mirrors?

 

[Complete_In_Him]

Paul believed it was our faith is Christ or God was deemed as our righteousness.

The epistle to the Romans clearly states, "the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ" and "Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith" and "justified freely by his grace"

Which makes this true, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

We are justified by faith, not by works, but faith without works is dead.

This is true, the faith of Christ. And always remember when it comes to soul salvation and eternal security, our doctrine, as the church the body of Christ is, "saved by grace"

We are not justified or made righteous over and over. We are not baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ over and over.

"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."

... unto all, and upon all them that believe. Reckoned, quickened, approved, begotten- all important words to doctrine.

 

[PeterJens]

Labels are for cowards and bigots who can't deal with people as individuals, they have to place them in a category and then deal with the category instead of the individual.
Belief systems are not labels. Labeling another by their belief system is. I am a Christian. Label me as that.

When you buy food, it has a label on it to describe the contents, often in summary.
It helps you quickly identify what is going on. It is not about being a coward, it is about being honest, sincere and straight forward. If you want to know you are with a group of people who agree on the same basic issues, labels save a lot of time.

What is insightful is you labelled me, as pelgian, humanist, etc as a kind of curse. Then when I ask you where you are coming from you run and hide. Do you notice the agressive nature of that behaviour and you are doing the very thing you are saying is bad.

 

[gb9]

Let me get this clear

Calvanist believe in OSAS, or eternal security. Armenians do not. They put faith as an overiding restriction.
If someone calls me to follow OSAS I will declare my opposition based of the theological schools of thought.
Now someone might say, oh but I am not a calvanist, so that is a lie. I am making clear my position and divide.

Now I have been called to repent. Now if I am to repent, I have to have commited particular sin. In the general sense I have repented of my sins and been forgiven in Christ. So for a christian to call me further to repent, I am at a loss.
This has been a continual theme, which I have summarised in my reply.

Dispensationalism is taking various parts of scripture and saying they apply to certain people and not others.
I am told by taking Jesus's command to obey Him is being a legalist and was actually written only to the Jews. This type of language is dispensational language. That is its theological root. Now I reject this theology.

I fail to grasp again that this is not simple and confirm my diagnosis of a personality disorder. These simple facts should not create all this heat. It is ludicrous. Do people believe what they claim to believe or is it just smoke and mirrors?

I did this a while back, now again: peter, please consider this question carefully......... does Jesus save or does he give a person the opportunity to be saved. your and anyone else's view of this is HUGE in how you shape your personal theology.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Let me get this clear

Calvanist believe in OSAS, or eternal security. Armenians do not. They put faith as an overiding restriction.
If someone calls me to follow OSAS I will declare my opposition based of the theological schools of thought.
Now someone might say, oh but I am not a calvanist, so that is a lie. I am making clear my position and divide.

Now I have been called to repent. Now if I am to repent, I have to have commited particular sin. In the general sense I have repented of my sins and been forgiven in Christ. So for a christian to call me further to repent, I am at a loss.
This has been a continual theme, which I have summarised in my reply.

Dispensationalism is taking various parts of scripture and saying they apply to certain people and not others.
I am told by taking Jesus's command to obey Him is being a legalist and was actually written only to the Jews. This type of language is dispensational language. That is its theological root. Now I reject this theology.

I fail to grasp again that this is not simple and confirm my diagnosis of a personality disorder. These simple facts should not create all this heat. It is ludicrous. Do people believe what they claim to believe or is it just smoke and mirrors?

Both Calvinism and Arminianism have condemned Pelagianism as heresy.

 

[FreeNChrist]

When you buy food, it has a label on it to describe the contents, often in summary.
It helps you quickly identify what is going on. It is not about being a coward, it is about being honest, sincere and straight forward. If you want to know you are with a group of people who agree on the same basic issues, labels save a lot of time.

What is insightful is you labelled me, as pelgian, humanist, etc as a kind of curse. Then when I ask you where you are coming from you run and hide. Do you notice the agressive nature of that behaviour and you are doing the very thing you are saying is bad.

If I was to label you, it would be as 'confused'. Specifically because of the erroneous belief system you have adopted and confused with Christianity.

 

[PeterJens]

I did this a while back, now again: peter, please consider this question carefully......... does Jesus save or does he give a person the opportunity to be saved. your and anyone else's view of this is HUGE in how you shape your personal theology.

You know the problem with this question is I do not know. I know Christ called me, and I know I responded.
In one sense as a sheep you are saved before you are called, because it is something within you that calls you.

I met a woman in Japan once. She had never heard the gospel before, but she just agreed with the propositions, and became a christian. So it is often the person is in the right place for the words preached to echo. The key issue for me is can they once they have responded to walk away. I would say yes based on my experience of witnessing and seeing how people choose what to follow.

I am not one of those who believe you persuade people into the Kingdom, rather you plant the seed of the word, and those who are called respond. This is why I have tended not to put myself in one camp or another, but mostly I sit with an armenian perspective, that is all. For me also, the walk matters above anything else.

 

[Complete_In_Him]

Dispensationalism is taking various parts of scripture and saying they apply to certain people and not others. I am told by taking Jesus's command to obey Him is being a legalist and was actually written only to the Jews. This type of language is dispensational language. That is its theological root. Now I reject this theology.

And that is fine, but why don't you try to follow God? actually, to be more precise "follow the Spirit"

We are instructed to "rightly divide the word of truth", the Spirit will not lead us or teach us outside of what God instructs us to do. There are many doctrines in the bible and for God's purposes with the household. But, for this ministry, all of the bible is not to us or about us... we must follow the Spirit for our learning and instruction in righteousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me get this clear

Calvanist believe in OSAS, or eternal security. Armenians do not. They put faith as an overiding restriction.
If someone calls me to follow OSAS I will declare my opposition based of the theological schools of thought.
Now someone might say, oh but I am not a calvanist, so that is a lie. I am making clear my position and divide.

Calvanists are not the only people who believe in eternal security, Eternal security was believed in the NT times,Long before calvin was even born..

so please stop trying to excuse your sin,, You calling me a calvanist is gthe reason you do not understand what you believe, to you it is a Calvin vs arminian debate, IT IS NOT. and if you continue to make it one. YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND what we believe.

The fact is, I HAVE NEVER CALLED YOU TO BECOME, or EVEN ASKED YOU to look after, Study or become a follower of calvin.. That is your lie. That is your sin, And please. God calls us to confess our sins to each other. If you can not admit you have sinned, that just proves everything I have said all along.

Now I have been called to repent. Now if I am to repent, I have to have commited particular sin. In the general sense I have repented of my sins and been forgiven in Christ. So for a christian to call me further to repent, I am at a loss.
This has been a continual theme, which I have summarised in my reply.

I named your three sins,, DO i have to name the again?

This is interesting advice. I am meant to listen to EG about what?
That I am trying to earn my way to heaven? I am not.
That I should be a calvanist? I am not.
That I should condemn myself about sins I have not commited? I do not need to do this.
That I should be a dispensationalist with a distorted view of salvation? I call this heresy.

Are you going to continue to excuse your sin, Or repent?

Dispensationalism is taking various parts of scripture and saying they apply to certain people and not others.
I am told by taking Jesus's command to obey Him is being a legalist and was actually written only to the Jews. This type of language is dispensational language. That is its theological root. Now I reject this theology.

The gospel message is the same for all mankind, from adam to the last person standing..

I have said this over and over, I have gotten into discussions with people who think the OT jews were saved by law (some dispensionalists believe this, I do not, nor is it a mainstream dispensational belief)

so again, Your agument against me is foolish, BECAUSE I DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU THINK I BELIEVE, and if you WOULD JUST LISTEN YOU WOULD KNOW THAT.

I fail to grasp again that this is not simple and confirm my diagnosis of a personality disorder. These simple facts should not create all this heat. It is ludicrous. Do people believe what they claim to believe or is it just smoke and mirrors?

The simple issue is you have lied and bore false witness aginst others.. And you need to confess your sin, and stop making excuses.

 

[gb9]

You know the problem with this question is I do not know. I know Christ called me, and I know I responded.
In one sense as a sheep you are saved before you are called, because it is something within you that calls you.

I met a woman in Japan once. She had never heard the gospel before, but she just agreed with the propositions, and became a christian. So it is often the person is in the right place for the words preached to echo. The key issue for me is can they once they have responded to walk away. I would say yes based on my experience of witnessing and seeing how people choose what to follow.

I am not one of those who believe you persuade people into the Kingdom, rather you plant the seed of the word, and those who are called respond. This is why I have tended not to put myself in one camp or another, but mostly I sit with an armenian perspective, that is all. For me also, the walk matters above anything else.

thank you for your honesty. now here is the thing with that: if you or anyone does not completely trust Christ for their salvation, then you really do not know. if anyone has a theology of " me and Jesus keep me saved" then you can never be sure.

but trust Christ alone, you can always be sure!!

 

[PeterJens]

Both Calvinism and Arminianism have condemned Pelagianism as heresy.

FreeNChrist - the problem with theological schools is they are useful to show a general position, but people vary in their emphasis. Pelagianism full blown is a kind of universalism, but there is a position call semi-Pelagianism.

And if you read about Wesley, he held this kind of position. So your summary is true, but there is more subtlety than you are suggesting.

Now calling me confused is your simple excuse. I am learning and grappling with the ideas, which come together at different points. Thankfully I am willing to learn and balance out these points, and not be fixed until I know where I stand. This is very much the experience we all have when we learn a new subject or have you forgotten?

 

[psychomom]

I am not one of those who believe you persuade people into the Kingdom,

Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. (2 Cor 5:11a)


the root of that word 'persuade' is the Greek pistis.... faith

 

[eternally-gratefull]

thank you for your honesty. now here is the thing with that: if you or anyone does not completely trust Christ for their salvation, then you really do not know. if anyone has a theology of " me and Jesus keep me saved" then you can never be sure.

but trust Christ alone, you can always be sure!!

How can one have FAITH in a HOPE that is not even real? we can't..

Then how can we be saved, if we do not have faith? We can't

 

[JesusLives]

Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. (2 Cor 5:11a)


the root of that word 'persuade' is the Greek pistis.... faith

We interrupt this thread to say Hi Mom.....missed you so much!!! Good to see you posting.....Carry on with the thread....Hugs Ellie.....Dar your other favorite Blond.... just in case one of your daughters is blonde.....lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. (2 Cor 5:11a)


the root of that word 'persuade' is the Greek pistis.... faith

pistis, to be fully persuaded, to trust, faith based on proof, confidence.

How can we ay we have faith in god. of we lack all of these characteristics? we only lie to ourselves..

 

[PeterJens]

thank you for your honesty. now here is the thing with that: if you or anyone does not completely trust Christ for their salvation, then you really do not know. if anyone has a theology of " me and Jesus keep me saved" then you can never be sure.
but trust Christ alone, you can always be sure!!

gb9 - I hate to shatter a statement, but to be honest I have to.
Faith is based on a chain of trust. It goes from Jesus, to the disciples, to the writers of the bible, to the scribes who kept the bible, to the translaters, to the Holy Spirit who quickens the word to our hearts, to our understanding of all lifes experiences, to our faith in all this, when we put our faith in Jesus will save us. Now I admit that chain of faith, because my faith will change if that chain is broken. It does matter.

So this idea of trust Christ alone is an illusion. I trust God loves me and has saved me through Christ and the cross.
My behaviour does not save me, or what I am or who I have been. What I find interesting is the number of christians who need me to say this particular point time and again. If you walk with Jesus and have His word in your heart, you will soon learn what faith really is, and their is nothing in us that justifies us, it is His Spirit and His work that makes us whole.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We interrupt this thread to say Hi Mom.....missed you so much!!! Good to see you posting.....Carry on with the thread....Hugs Ellie.....Dar your other favorite Blond.... just in case one of your daughters is blonde.....lol

I second that!!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

gb9 - I hate to shatter a statement, but to be honest I have to.
Faith is based on a chain of trust. It goes from Jesus, to the disciples, to the writers of the bible, to the scribes who kept the bible, to the translaters, to the Holy Spirit who quickens the word to our hearts, to our understanding of all lifes experiences, to our faith in all this, when we put our faith in Jesus will save us. Now I admit that chain of faith, because my faith will change if that chain is broken. It does matter.

So this idea of trust Christ alone is an illusion. I trust God loves me and has saved me through Christ and the cross.
My behaviour does not save me, or what I am or who I have been. What I find interesting is the number of christians who need me to say this particular point time and again. If you walk with Jesus and have His word in your heart, you will soon learn what faith really is, and their is nothing in us that justifies us, it is His Spirit and His work that makes us whole.

So you do trust God has saved you..

then why do you deny eternal life? ( I am sick of the term OSAS, and will just used the biblical term)

 

[valiant]

Let me get this clear

Calvanist believe in OSAS, or eternal security. Armenians do not. They put faith as an overiding restriction.

Rubbish. we believe in eternal security because God promised it quite clearly:

'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent
Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)


But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).


All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3,23-25).


'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)


'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).


'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).


'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).


I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).


But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).


Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).


Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).


He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)

explain these.