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If He chooses some to automatically go to hell... how do you know that He did not decide that you would go to hell too???
I never hear anybody that believes in this election business ever say "and I'm one that was not chosen so I'm not going to Heaven."
They always seem to say something like "yeah, I'm one of the chosen ones..." and then try to convince others that some get chosen and some do not as though they belong to some special club.
It's kinda like 8th grade all over again where you have the cool kids and then there's all the dorks.
Must be Calvin's Club of Elites
<--- Calvin in his pajamas
I never hear anybody that believes in this election business ever say "and I'm one that was not chosen so I'm not going to Heaven."
They always seem to say something like "yeah, I'm one of the chosen ones..." and then try to convince others that some get chosen and some do not as though they belong to some special club.
It's kinda like 8th grade all over again where you have the cool kids and then there's all the dorks.
Must be Calvin's Club of Elites
IM SO TIRED OF CALVINISTS TALKING ABOUT THE POTTER'S FREEDOM!
LOOK IT UP FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT! What Paul is referring to, it has nothing to do with this grace lottery system... its the opposite! [not to mention, often times when it speaks of Jacob and Esau its referring to the NATIONS, look it up in genesis]
Gospel in reverse, election in reverse, everything is in reverse this is MADNESS! You can only reach this level of numbness by attending a reformed theological seminary of some sort, which is why all these talking heads repeat the same platitudes. YET: A simple reading of scripture by ANYONE who is unpolluted by the reversegospel will produce a completely different mindset.
If God tells people to repent and they cannot repent unless God grants it, then God is only being mad at Himself. Not to mention the devil is unemployed in calvinism.
Jeremiah 18:6-10 (And it continues on in verse11...)
[FONT="]6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
Terms to look out for: "Sovereign Grace" "Potter's freedom" these two are the most popular buzzwords.
The more ive read about calvinism the worse it gets...[/FONT]
LOOK IT UP FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT! What Paul is referring to, it has nothing to do with this grace lottery system... its the opposite! [not to mention, often times when it speaks of Jacob and Esau its referring to the NATIONS, look it up in genesis]
Gospel in reverse, election in reverse, everything is in reverse this is MADNESS! You can only reach this level of numbness by attending a reformed theological seminary of some sort, which is why all these talking heads repeat the same platitudes. YET: A simple reading of scripture by ANYONE who is unpolluted by the reversegospel will produce a completely different mindset.
If God tells people to repent and they cannot repent unless God grants it, then God is only being mad at Himself. Not to mention the devil is unemployed in calvinism.
Jeremiah 18:6-10 (And it continues on in verse11...)
[FONT="]6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
Terms to look out for: "Sovereign Grace" "Potter's freedom" these two are the most popular buzzwords.
The more ive read about calvinism the worse it gets...[/FONT]
Sorry, but you just don't know what you're talking about and lately your anger has increased greatly.
Each of your assertions are amiss, and "what you've read lately about Calvinism" needs to be sourced, specified and either validated or invalidated. Mostly what you are doing is going on a rant, misunderstanding a text and going ad hominem.
Each of your assertions are amiss, and "what you've read lately about Calvinism" needs to be sourced, specified and either validated or invalidated. Mostly what you are doing is going on a rant, misunderstanding a text and going ad hominem.
Good one!
Yeah, they remind me of the 2 guys Jesus spoke of:
Luke 18:10-14
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
I guess next, they'll come up with a test to see if you're on of the elected ones...
Yeah, they remind me of the 2 guys Jesus spoke of:
Luke 18:10-14
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
I guess next, they'll come up with a test to see if you're on of the elected ones...
Yes it does make me very worried for new believers who might be caught up in this system and start wondering "Am I the elect?" etc. Shipwrecks their faith and eliminates repentance.
Also the sources are people you'd probably like, such as john piper john macarthur, rc sproul etc.
It wasnt my assertions that were "amiss" its simple basic bible truths that everyone who isnt brainwashed by this system of theology can see.
Righteousness = Do good and obey
Wickedness = Do bad and disobey.
Sounds rather simple, God granted mercy based on repentance over and over again in the bible, and if people are unable to repent on their own, God is just playing games and all those verses are just a waste of paper. These are undisprovable arguments because they are true.
Either men can repent, or you have some 'splaining to do about WHY DOES GOD ASK PEOPLE TO REPENT ALL THE TIME IF THEY CANT. Thats like getting mad at your dog for not knowing how to write an essay.
I dont even know why I bother responding since its gonna be the same platitudes and nonsense indirect "thou arent seminary educated" responses. So im done.
Also the sources are people you'd probably like, such as john piper john macarthur, rc sproul etc.
It wasnt my assertions that were "amiss" its simple basic bible truths that everyone who isnt brainwashed by this system of theology can see.
Righteousness = Do good and obey
Wickedness = Do bad and disobey.
Sounds rather simple, God granted mercy based on repentance over and over again in the bible, and if people are unable to repent on their own, God is just playing games and all those verses are just a waste of paper. These are undisprovable arguments because they are true.
Either men can repent, or you have some 'splaining to do about WHY DOES GOD ASK PEOPLE TO REPENT ALL THE TIME IF THEY CANT. Thats like getting mad at your dog for not knowing how to write an essay.
I dont even know why I bother responding since its gonna be the same platitudes and nonsense indirect "thou arent seminary educated" responses. So im done.
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Kinda like the religious people of Jesus' day... the ones who sought to kill Him because He did not agree lock step with them.
You know, the ones Jesus said were of their father the devil
Yeah, that's another one of satan's tricks... to tell people that since they are not "educated" then they need to just accept what others say
You know, the ones Jesus said were of their father the devil
Yeah, that's another one of satan's tricks... to tell people that since they are not "educated" then they need to just accept what others say
Utter nonsense and more false assertions on your part. It doesn't shipwreck faith, unless their faith is in themselves and the false gospel of free will decisional regeneration.
And it doesn't eliminate repentance, you're merely making excuses and other things up as you go along. Repentance is part and parcel top the Gospel and your insinuation is frankly lame and unwarranted.
Let's look at Paul "shipwrecking peoples faith":
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began - Titus 1:1
Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel, for which I am suffering, bound with chains as a criminal. But the word of God is not bound! Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. - 2 Timothy 2:8-10
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. - Ephesians 1:4-6
For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you - 1 Thessalonians 1:4
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord." - 1 Corinthians 1:26-31
It is pronounced often enough in the Scriptures. Perhaps if their "faith is shipwrecked" as you falsely assert, then their faith is not genuine, and their faith is in what they have done and not in what God hath wrought.
Now, do you claim Romans 8:28-39 for yourself? Please answer. Thank you.
And it doesn't eliminate repentance, you're merely making excuses and other things up as you go along. Repentance is part and parcel top the Gospel and your insinuation is frankly lame and unwarranted.
Let's look at Paul "shipwrecking peoples faith":
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began - Titus 1:1
Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel, for which I am suffering, bound with chains as a criminal. But the word of God is not bound! Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. - 2 Timothy 2:8-10
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. - Ephesians 1:4-6
For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you - 1 Thessalonians 1:4
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord." - 1 Corinthians 1:26-31
It is pronounced often enough in the Scriptures. Perhaps if their "faith is shipwrecked" as you falsely assert, then their faith is not genuine, and their faith is in what they have done and not in what God hath wrought.
Now, do you claim Romans 8:28-39 for yourself? Please answer. Thank you.
One thing is fo sho... satan ALWAYS makes a play to choke God's Word out of new believers according to what Jesus taught in Mark 4:13-20
In fact, when someone gets saved, they should be told that they will experience someone or situations that will come against their new found faith in Jesus... that way, we they see this come... and it WILL come.... it will serve as confirmation that believing in Jesus is right since things are coming against them because of Jesus that did not come against them before when they did not believe in Jesus.
In fact, when someone gets saved, they should be told that they will experience someone or situations that will come against their new found faith in Jesus... that way, we they see this come... and it WILL come.... it will serve as confirmation that believing in Jesus is right since things are coming against them because of Jesus that did not come against them before when they did not believe in Jesus.
