GOD'S DISCIPLINE ISN'T PUNISHEMENT FOR PAST SINS...
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7
uh huh
I didn't call you any names and certainly not any 'anti-Christ' names
what on earth? anyone here is allowed here joanie.
do you have anything to say about the actual content of my post?
how do you manage to believe we no longer follow what Jesus taught because some false teacher says it is all OC?
that would be interesting to read. how do you claim all the OT promises from the OT Covenant where every promise was contingent upon a reciprocal action on the part of the people it was made with?
how can you consistently claim the OT but say that Jesus taught OT law so we don't have to listen to that, much less obey it
how about actually addressing questions that someone is asking about your beliefs instead of berating them and telling them to go away
we are supposed to be able to give an answer for what we believe. you seem to substitute your responses with either cajoling, whining or a copy/paste
if you don't want to actually discuss then maybe, as HRFTD suggested, a blog would be good for your platform of desiring to speak only to those who follow the same teachers
I didn't call you any names and certainly not any 'anti-Christ' names
what on earth? anyone here is allowed here joanie.
do you have anything to say about the actual content of my post?
how do you manage to believe we no longer follow what Jesus taught because some false teacher says it is all OC?
that would be interesting to read. how do you claim all the OT promises from the OT Covenant where every promise was contingent upon a reciprocal action on the part of the people it was made with?
how can you consistently claim the OT but say that Jesus taught OT law so we don't have to listen to that, much less obey it
how about actually addressing questions that someone is asking about your beliefs instead of berating them and telling them to go away
we are supposed to be able to give an answer for what we believe. you seem to substitute your responses with either cajoling, whining or a copy/paste
if you don't want to actually discuss then maybe, as HRFTD suggested, a blog would be good for your platform of desiring to speak only to those who follow the same teachers
Yet you won't check out what he teaches, just what others have written about what he teaches, using few, out of context excerpts from his book.
You're right, we can all read, listen to, and/or watch what Farley teaches. But you have not, and will not.
I'm content for the reader to do as they will and make their own decisions.
Good morning ,
it has been a long - suffering and very patient with many in here pertaining to the topic of "hyper-grace" and those who seem to bring this topic up in every post no matter what the thread maybe . Moderators have addressed the issues with some in Bible discussion forum pertaining to this Subject " hyper-grace". We have received more submissions of infractions due to this topic. And the same names keep coming up. Moderators have asked what is hyper grace and where do you stand on the subject? those who were asked have provided their understanding. Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:
1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin
I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.
Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue . And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it. remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.
God bless,
very respectfully,
CS1
it has been a long - suffering and very patient with many in here pertaining to the topic of "hyper-grace" and those who seem to bring this topic up in every post no matter what the thread maybe . Moderators have addressed the issues with some in Bible discussion forum pertaining to this Subject " hyper-grace". We have received more submissions of infractions due to this topic. And the same names keep coming up. Moderators have asked what is hyper grace and where do you stand on the subject? those who were asked have provided their understanding. Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:
1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin
I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.
Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue . And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it. remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.
God bless,
very respectfully,
CS1
7seas, the only one doing anything on the list of grievances posted by Mods is YOU. The topic of this thread was about the discipline of God, not about 'hyper-grace'.
Let's see which things on the list you and a couple of others have done in this thread:
- tried to make it about hyper-grace instead of discussing the topic (that would be #7)
- started out of the gate labeling a linked to, related to the OP teaching's teacher a heretic (#3)
- name calling (#6) - I don't know, does this apply? "I had no idea it was ok for Christians to deny what they say here and act like they sit on a throne and we all must bend the knee and kiss the ring" (posted by you about me).
We've been told to 'grow up', that I'm 'immature' and 'passive aggressive', another poster was accused of taking 'flights of fancy' and then her username was insulted. You've in essence told people that if they want to speak on this forum, they better fall in line with what YOU believe or they should go elsewhere - start their own blog or forum - as if YOU are in control here! You accuse those of us TRYING to discuss and stay on topic of denigrating others and shutting discussion down - the VERY THING that YOU are doing!
I have said that you've posted out of complete ignorance, but that's not a personal insult, it's saying that you've posted about someone based on what someone else posted about that person. That's not you knowing your stuff, that's you repeating someone else's stuff. You claim to have gone to the source (Andrew Farely), but then admit that you are taking material from someone else's evaluation based on very few, out of context, and in some cases, paraphrased excerpts from Farley. Ignorant means you just don't know, and that's okay. That's why I keep pointing you to the source, so that you can make an informed comment instead of just letting someone else do the work for you. You have taken the exhortation to do your own homework and turned it into a personal attack against you. That's not something I've done; it's all you.
Some of you here would like to silence folks they disagree with, like Ben, Joanie, UnderGrace, myself, and a few others. It's my opinion that instead of discussing the content of our posts/threads, they holler 'hyper grace!!!!!' in hopes that the mods will at least eliminate those threads and at most, the posters of those threads. If that doesn't work, they escalate, and they say, 'Gnosticism!!! Heresy!!!'
As Ben says, why not just 'come and reason'?
What was this thread about again?
Oh yeah . . . The discipline of God being something to prepare us for our future, not punish us for our past.
Shall we get back to it, please?
-JGIG
So you do not believe that we are completely cleansed of sin when we receive Jesus?
Scripture says that we are saved completely, that all of our sins are forgiven, and that we HAVE forgiveness (Romans, 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians, Hebrews).
Scripture says that if you are in Christ, you are a forgiven person.
You disagree with that?
The opinion challenging what Farley teaches about 1 Jn. 1:9 is a common one, and just that: an opinion. It does not make either Farley or the one who disagrees with him a heretic, just because they disagree.
If it's your conviction that you must ask forgiveness for every sin you commit after you receive Christ, then that's what you should do!
It's our conviction, however, that what Jesus did at the Cross WORKED, and that he forgave all sins, past, present, and future (since all of our sins were in the future at the time!). We enter into that cleansing forgiveness when we believe in Christ.
Our conviction is not a heretical stance; it points to the all-sufficient Work of Christ.
-JGIG
Scripture says that we are saved completely, that all of our sins are forgiven, and that we HAVE forgiveness (Romans, 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians, Hebrews).
Scripture says that if you are in Christ, you are a forgiven person.
You disagree with that?
The opinion challenging what Farley teaches about 1 Jn. 1:9 is a common one, and just that: an opinion. It does not make either Farley or the one who disagrees with him a heretic, just because they disagree.
If it's your conviction that you must ask forgiveness for every sin you commit after you receive Christ, then that's what you should do!
It's our conviction, however, that what Jesus did at the Cross WORKED, and that he forgave all sins, past, present, and future (since all of our sins were in the future at the time!). We enter into that cleansing forgiveness when we believe in Christ.
Our conviction is not a heretical stance; it points to the all-sufficient Work of Christ.
-JGIG
One of the paradoxes of the Christian faith is that we are at once New Creations in Christ and still needing to be taught to say no to ungodliness (see 2 Cor. 5 and Titus 2).
See, now here is where you're showing that you don't really have a clue WHAT Farley teaches. He teaches PLENTY on sanctification and the behavior of the believer.
Would you like me to post a couple links
?
Oh, okay, just one, lol:
Okay, one more, if you insist:
You're labeling a man a heretic without properly vetting what he teaches. What else should that be called?
What makes you intrinsically correct and me intrinsically incorrect?
The 'because I said so' approach does not work on a discussion forum, lol.
You're working very hard to shut down discussion, while I'm inviting folks to have a listen and make up their own minds.
Again, you're labeling a man a heretic without properly vetting what he teaches. What else should that be called?
In your opinion. Which you are entitled to. But your opinion is up for discussion. On this, the Bible Discussion Forum.
Yes! By jove, I think you're getting it!
-JGIG
See, now here is where you're showing that you don't really have a clue WHAT Farley teaches. He teaches PLENTY on sanctification and the behavior of the believer.
Would you like me to post a couple links
?Oh, okay, just one, lol:
Okay, one more, if you insist:
You're labeling a man a heretic without properly vetting what he teaches. What else should that be called?
What makes you intrinsically correct and me intrinsically incorrect?
The 'because I said so' approach does not work on a discussion forum, lol.
You're working very hard to shut down discussion, while I'm inviting folks to have a listen and make up their own minds.
Again, you're labeling a man a heretic without properly vetting what he teaches. What else should that be called?
In your opinion. Which you are entitled to. But your opinion is up for discussion. On this, the Bible Discussion Forum.
Yes! By jove, I think you're getting it!
-JGIG
Joanie, how can any Christian actually believe that 1John isn't written to believers? The fact that he addresses the readers as little children, brethren, and other terms makes it clear believers are the expected listeners. I don't think anyone doubts that you intend to teach or support false teachings, but the simple facts is-you do.
Interesting to note that only hypergrace people are “paying” members. So, are you saying you have bought your way into the forum to post your constant heresies?
Of course, all the other paying members, who just want to have orthodox and biblical Christianity, should be banned, in your eyes, I suppose? Or, simply keep quiet about this assault on the name of Jesus and the foundations of our faith?
(As for reporting people, you don’t have to worry, I am on that! Your threats are noted!)
Of course, all the other paying members, who just want to have orthodox and biblical Christianity, should be banned, in your eyes, I suppose? Or, simply keep quiet about this assault on the name of Jesus and the foundations of our faith?
(As for reporting people, you don’t have to worry, I am on that! Your threats are noted!)
Wow.
This is a discussion forum.
We are all free to post here.
And that bit about a 'safe space' - really? That was implying that she's a snowflake.
Joanie has been faithful to patiently reply to all kinds of rubbish thrown at her from those who do want to control the BDF environment and content.
You wrote, "This is really not the right format for your needs."
And then you show her the way to the door, basically trying to get her to go away.
Who's trying to control here?
I'm sure no one notices
.-JGIG
I think a lot of the... animosity here, back and forth, would be gone (or at least diminished) if people didn't try to use blanket terms to invalidate and ostracize fellow believers in Christ. I used to be guilty of this, attaching the term "legalist" to others, but its been quite some time. People still haven't repented of this tactic, continually devaluing other's contributions to the discussion by placing them in a box and invalidating their perspective by categorizing them (as WOF, Hyper-Grace, etc).
How will we ever be in unity, when we continue to ostracize and alienate one another? We sow discord by these actions. Cannot we simply address the scripture provided and not defame each other?
How will we ever be in unity, when we continue to ostracize and alienate one another? We sow discord by these actions. Cannot we simply address the scripture provided and not defame each other?
How long have you had access to CC's private info to know who pays and who doesn't?
We have seven children with two in college - supporting CC doesn't make the cut for our finances, though I would like to.
Again, you have made a blanket, unsubstantiated statement about a group of people you disagree with for the sole purpose of discrediting them.
Malarkey, I think was the word describing that kind of behavior.
I think, and Joanie, please correct me if I'm wrong, that Joanie cares enough about this place and loves the people here enough to support this venue financially so that it can continue to be online. But you have to turn that into something ugly and nefarious, again labeling her a heretic, for the sole purpose of discrediting her.
Good grief.
OVER AND OVER we beg you guys - COME LET US REASON TOGETHER.
But you just won't.
Instead, it's you guys saying,
"No, you're wrong, because . . . HERESY!!!!"
"No, you're wrong, because . . . GNOSTICISM!!!"
"No, you're wrong, because . . . HYPER GRACE!!!!"
"No, you're wrong, because . . . WOF!!!!"
"No, you're wrong, because . . . GNOSTICISM!!!"
"No, you're wrong, because . . . HYPER GRACE!!!!"
"No, you're wrong, because . . . WOF!!!!"
. . . and then you all go about setting up straw men and valiantly knock them over, hoping that the moderators will ban us for bringing into threads things that we have not brought.
Which is fine. I'm sure no one notices.
Carry on.
-JGIG
7
well, this is false JGIG. I posted some time back that I do not post something if I have not looked into it myself
post 44 in this thread you accused me of the same thing you are saying above. do you have a bad memory or do you just like to say things that have already been proven as untrue, in the hopes that if you repeat it often enough it will become true?
like the false liberal media?
anyway, I said this in response to the Third Covenant name I made up AND you saying I was either making things up or repeating what someone else stated. the BLUE words below are mine even though you refuse to acknowledge that I said I research before I post so that I do not create an ignorant post or simply copy/paste
nope. I am refreshingly original. and I do actually research before I run off in all directions posting comments that are copy/pasted from somewhere else. however, when I do copy/paste something I SAY THAT I AM DOING SO
more nonsense. you inserted Farley who is not biblically sound and he exemplifies what we have been asked not to discuss
okay. your hypocrisy is off the wall since I asked you several questions twice and you decided to ignore those posts
joanie does the same. I asked her questions and she ignores them
both of you do the same thing. you appear to be unable to respond to question that disagree with your beliefs and try to say other people are derailing the thread when the questions being asked are about what your teachers teach
you are not fooling anyone so save yourself time and stop making these ridiculous posts that other people have also addressed and questionned your sincereity and twisting of other people's word
as for Ben, he and I do not along because I call him on his mispeaking and twisting every time
you are not worth responding to, but for the sake of anyone catching up, I quote direct words from Farley and others and you believe those words so continue on but stop being surprised at the many here who know false teaching when they see it
Farley takes great license with the NT but he is not original. He is just another in what is becoming a long line of false teachers who tell us that we do not need to obey Jesus
it appears, at least it seems, (since you have never answered anything I asked, but instead kept beating on your tired and inaccurate renderings of my posts and the posts of others) that this is your belief as well
I find it false and it is really too bad that you disagree with that
that is what really irks you. you are not a teacher here, but tell everyone to follow YOUR teachers and one is named Farley
this is a discussion forum. your opinions are free to be posted and so are the opinions of others
in my opinion Farley is just another false teacher...your teacher to be sure, so that has you all up in arms
as long as you do not consider the above a personal insulte I am sure you will not consider it as such when I tell you that you are more than a little biased and your posts are out of complete ignorance
you also do not seem able to accept that everyone should believe YOU and what YOU choose to like
but that is not a personal insult
it is also not comedic. it must be hard for someone like yourself who believes they are always right, to find that many do not believe you are always right
tough
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7
One of the paradoxes of the Christian faith is that we are at once New Creations in Christ and still needing to be taught to say no to ungodliness (see 2 Cor. 5 and Titus 2).
See, now here is where you're showing that you don't really have a clue WHAT Farley teaches. He teaches PLENTY on sanctification and the behavior of the believer.
Would you like me to post a couple links?
Oh, okay, just one, lol:
Okay, one more, if you insist:
You're labeling a man a heretic without properly vetting what he teaches. What else should that be called?
What makes you intrinsically correct and me intrinsically incorrect?
The 'because I said so' approach does not work on a discussion forum, lol.
You're working very hard to shut down discussion, while I'm inviting folks to have a listen and make up their own minds.
Again, you're labeling a man a heretic without properly vetting what he teaches. What else should that be called?
In your opinion. Which you are entitled to. But your opinion is up for discussion. On this, the Bible Discussion Forum.
Yes! By jove, I think you're getting it!
-JGIG
See, now here is where you're showing that you don't really have a clue WHAT Farley teaches. He teaches PLENTY on sanctification and the behavior of the believer.
Would you like me to post a couple links
?Oh, okay, just one, lol:
Okay, one more, if you insist:
You're labeling a man a heretic without properly vetting what he teaches. What else should that be called?
What makes you intrinsically correct and me intrinsically incorrect?
The 'because I said so' approach does not work on a discussion forum, lol.
You're working very hard to shut down discussion, while I'm inviting folks to have a listen and make up their own minds.
Again, you're labeling a man a heretic without properly vetting what he teaches. What else should that be called?
In your opinion. Which you are entitled to. But your opinion is up for discussion. On this, the Bible Discussion Forum.
Yes! By jove, I think you're getting it!
-JGIG
honestly, if you didn't believe yourself to be above reproach and unable to discuss without railing on people (yes I know you will deny it but I honestly see you doing that. constantly railing on people instead of being able or even willing to discuss or answer questions)
you do exactly what you say I do but of course it is ok in your own eyes when you do it
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7
well that seems to be what she would like us to think, but of course that cannot be true
this is not the first time she has intimated that or hinted she is allowed to talk about hg while the rest of us are under threat of a ban if we do
somebody tell me how a person can consistently post the exact teaching that corresponds with hg, post ONLY hg believing teachers and then sit back and deny they do it
you can't make this stuff up
7
Wow.
This is a discussion forum.
We are all free to post here.
And that bit about a 'safe space' - really? That was implying that she's a snowflake.
Joanie has been faithful to patiently reply to all kinds of rubbish thrown at her from those who do want to control the BDF environment and content.
You wrote, "This is really not the right format for your needs."
And then you show her the way to the door, basically trying to get her to go away.
Who's trying to control here?
I'm sure no one notices.
-JGIG
This is a discussion forum.
We are all free to post here.
And that bit about a 'safe space' - really? That was implying that she's a snowflake.
Joanie has been faithful to patiently reply to all kinds of rubbish thrown at her from those who do want to control the BDF environment and content.
You wrote, "This is really not the right format for your needs."
And then you show her the way to the door, basically trying to get her to go away.
Who's trying to control here?
I'm sure no one notices
.-JGIG
I have to say you certainly are consistent
someone suggests an alternative for her beliefs because she gets so upset if anyone disagrees with her and you twist it to make it seem other than what it is
duly noted and I am sure we can all see what you did here
you really are all about control IMO. but of course that is not a personal insult as you, no doubt, are aware since you are the only one who can accurately judge what a personal insult is
the rest of us, are ignorant beyond belief and comedic in our posts
now tell us what you really said
7
huh. that 'I oppose you at every turn' sounds almost biblical in its import
I don't have that agenda and I actually find the expression to be a subtle way of you saying you are just a victim
that is what you do. everyone misunderstands you with the exception of those who agree with you
I would not even mention it if it were not for you being so obviously trying to wear a halo and put a pitchfork in someone else's hand
you see yourself as so important you say I oppose you and not just oppose you, but 'oppose you at every turn'
actually I have you on ignore and only looked at what you wrote because I though it might be meant for me
honestly? you seem to be trying to set yourself up like some innocent that was hit by a speeding vehicle going the wrong way in traffic
to be sure, it IS subtle, but it's there all right. others see it too as you know and have remarked on it
are they also 'opposing you at every turn?'
if someone disagrees with you, you often say it is because they do not understand you
maybe they understand both what you write and you, the person
I don't think of you as the enemy and even that is a subtle jab at saying I have a problem when you want to love everyone
again, disagreements are disagreements in what people believe or post from those they follow or whose teaching they may believe
that, is the basis for most complaints in this forum and most likely the reason for most reports being made
7
wait...wait
found this in the other thread that you did start
your post and Angela's reply
I agree with both
Originally Posted by BenFTW
I had this discussion with my father this morning (sin confession for forgiveness) and what it came down to was this. Sin confession for forgiveness is not about justification before God but about our relationship with God personally. It is like addressing the elephant in the room. It is not that God holds our sins against us, but we in our minds (in our conscience) can have a burden and for this burden to be lifted, we express to God our sin (for our sake).
We are not in this moment (of sin confession) forgiven of God, as if sin confession for forgiveness grants us eternal life (or maintains salvation, or right standing with God). That would be another gospel, and not the Gospel. Our justification before God is the risen Christ. It is through His blood that was shed for our sins that we have the remission of our sins. The forgiveness of sins. Our relationship with God, our fellowship, is dependent upon this truth. We have the total forgiveness of sins, and we are reconciled to God.
When we sin, know that we have sinned, we desire to go before God and have it addressed (maybe even reluctantly, feeling ashamed). Yet God comforts us, consoles us, and informs us of His forgiveness. He doesn't condemn us, and He may even correct us and tell us to make amends. We go before God to have peace in our minds and to seek deliverance from sin. We want to walk in victory, to forsake sin, and to actually walk in love. We do not do this for justification before God, but as a means of sanctification and fellowship with God.
Now this, I wholeheartedly agree with. This is amazing, and truly a sign that the Holy Spirit is showing you the truth.
There are some small details, I am not completely in agree meant with, but I won’t go into. Because this is beautiful and I hope you will copy it yourself Ben, and remember it in our discussions.
PS. Jesus also expects us to reconcile with our brothers and sisters, for our relationship with God to be right, too! I’m sure you know that, already!
I miss the long late hour discussions I used to have with my dad.
found this in the other thread that you did start
your post and Angela's reply
I agree with both
We are not in this moment (of sin confession) forgiven of God, as if sin confession for forgiveness grants us eternal life (or maintains salvation, or right standing with God). That would be another gospel, and not the Gospel. Our justification before God is the risen Christ. It is through His blood that was shed for our sins that we have the remission of our sins. The forgiveness of sins. Our relationship with God, our fellowship, is dependent upon this truth. We have the total forgiveness of sins, and we are reconciled to God.
When we sin, know that we have sinned, we desire to go before God and have it addressed (maybe even reluctantly, feeling ashamed). Yet God comforts us, consoles us, and informs us of His forgiveness. He doesn't condemn us, and He may even correct us and tell us to make amends. We go before God to have peace in our minds and to seek deliverance from sin. We want to walk in victory, to forsake sin, and to actually walk in love. We do not do this for justification before God, but as a means of sanctification and fellowship with God.
Now this, I wholeheartedly agree with. This is amazing, and truly a sign that the Holy Spirit is showing you the truth.
There are some small details, I am not completely in agree meant with, but I won’t go into. Because this is beautiful and I hope you will copy it yourself Ben, and remember it in our discussions.
PS. Jesus also expects us to reconcile with our brothers and sisters, for our relationship with God to be right, too! I’m sure you know that, already!
I miss the long late hour discussions I used to have with my dad.