GOD'S DISCIPLINE ISN'T PUNISHEMENT FOR PAST SINS...

[Cee]

Correct doctrine is essential. Vaunting so-called "loving behavior" over doctrine is an easy means of subverting and destroying true doctrine because the gauge for measuring "loving behavior" is so relative. Many times that appeal is used as a means of silencing opposing ideas.

A tree is known by its fruit. When someone here espouses ideas that align with the teachings of certain people who are known to teach a specific doctrine, then it's fair to say that the person is a follower of that doctrine. It really doesn't matter if that person doesn't like being labeled that way, that is what they believe.

I think most people believe they are a follower of Christ not some doctrine people want to label them with. Scripture vaunts loving behavior far more than doctrine. It references doctrine to correct behavior. If we exalt doctrine over behavior, we could diminish the call to be like Christ.

By the way, that Scripture teaches good trees can’t bear bad fruit (or bad trees good fruit), to me the focus is on Christ changing our tree. And apart from Him we can do nothing. If we label people as bad teees continually and having a root other than Christ, it seems that might be why people get so defensive and abusive with each other. Calling out those old mindsets that still need to be renewed in Christ.

Ive actually decided today I’m going to actively try to focus on agreement instead of disagreements with people. And in disagreements I’ll share my point of view in humility. Pray for me!

 

[Lewiz]

Joanie, how can any Christian actually believe that 1John isn't written to believers? The fact that he addresses the readers as little children, brethren, and other terms makes it clear believers are the expected listeners. I don't think anyone doubts that you intend to teach or support false teachings, but the simple facts is-you do.

I can't give enough attaboys for this............nice post.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I agree correct doctrine is essential! Especially in that it leads us to loving Him more and loving one another more. This is why understanding repentance is so important. I believe a lot of people focus on a teaching of sinful awareness, but it doesn’t lead to lasting change because at the end they are not having new truth to embrace only new things to avoid.

To me, Biblical repentance always leads to seeing Him greater. It is this encounter that transforms us to be more like Him and our fruit follows. Doctrine is given to establish this. Please notice the words given, it is for building up, correcting, reproof, teaching... all of these words have a final goal in mind. If we correct there must be a better ideal, we teach to disciple and train up, we reproof to strip away what isn’t of the final image. These are continually given to lead people to the gospel, God with us. Unitied in Him as His holy temples.

In my opinion, if behavior modification worked, billions of believers would be the most loving people on the planet. As we discover His goodness, kindness, and love for us, we discover Him through us. Doctrine is given to lead us to greater relationship with Him and each other.

I'm sure what you're describing is true for a lot of people, but I really don't have much knowledge of it because I have had almost zero exposure to churches that hammer people to focus on sin all of the time. I only want to think about sin when I've done something wrong, so that I can acknowledge it as honestly as I can and find the grace to deal with my shortcoming. "Behavior modification" does work. It has been great for my life because it was the spirit working in me, and not me trying to follow doctrines of men.

 

[joaniemarie]

What you guys posted I agree with 100% (JGIG., Ben and Cee) and say a good Amen to. And hope that the freedom to share our faith in Christ and discuss it here like grown ups will not be so hindered the next time and the next and the next time.

And you were right JGIG I've never been told not to post or what to post or when to post or who to post. Like you, I'm confident that if I had broken any rules the moderators would have contacted me long ago. It's been since 2013 and so far not even an email.

The Christian preachers and teachers that people share here are many and varied and we all have the freedom to share them as far as I'm concerned. I've not been contacted by any of the mods to the contrary. And based on those facts I'm not worried about it. So yes., you are right JGIG about that and all the other things you posted.

I started to read some of the negative posts and then stopped in my tracks and didn't go on. I only read the good ones.

 

[Cee]

I'm sure what you're describing is true for a lot of people, but I really don't have much knowledge of it because I have had almost zero exposure to churches that hammer people to focus on sin all of the time. I only want to think about sin when I've done something wrong, so that I can acknowledge it as honestly as I can and find the grace to deal with my shortcoming. "Behavior modification" does work. It has been great for my life because it was the spirit working in me, and not me trying to follow doctrines of men.

I can witness to this, you and I had some long debates years ago, but I do feel you are much kinder in your replies now. Also I apologize for any offense or hurtful things I said in the past. I think we are good, but if not I’d like to wipe the slate clean.

 

[Lewiz]

Wow.

This is a discussion forum.

We are all free to post here.

And that bit about a 'safe space' - really? That was implying that she's a snowflake.

Joanie has been faithful to patiently reply to all kinds of rubbish thrown at her from those who do want to control the BDF environment and content.

You wrote, "This is really not the right format for your needs."

And then you show her the way to the door, basically trying to get her to go away.

Who's trying to control here?

I'm sure no one notices .

-JGIG

Wow..........just wow.

You've been squacking against 7seasrekeyed all over the 10 Reasons Sin Confession Is Questionable!!! thread about what she is posting, & now you do a 180 & saying this?

Do we have a right to post our opinions, or not?!?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I think most people believe they are a follower of Christ not some doctrine people want to label them with. Scripture vaunts loving behavior far more than doctrine. It references doctrine to correct behavior. If we exalt doctrine over behavior, we could diminish the call to be like Christ.

By the way, that Scripture teaches good trees can’t bear bad fruit (or bad trees good fruit), to me the focus is on Christ changing our tree. And apart from Him we can do nothing. If we label people as bad teees continually and having a root other than Christ, it seems that might be why people get so defensive and abusive with each other. Calling out those old mindsets that still need to be renewed in Christ.

Ive actually decided today I’m going to actively try to focus on agreement instead of disagreements with people. And in disagreements I’ll share my point of view in humility. Pray for me!

That's an unfortunate problem I've noticed some people have - they feel like they themselves are being attacked when their ideas are being opposed. It's difficult to have a serious, peaceful conversation when that's the case because the discussion quickly becomes emotional, drowning out rational discourse.

 

[joaniemarie]

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[TD]You are all fair, my love, and there is no spot in you.[/TD]
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[TD="align: center"]Song Of Solomon 4:7[/TD]
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[TD][h=2]- APRIL 27 -
THERE IS NO SPOT IN YOU[HR][/HR][/h][/TD]
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[/TABLE]

Jesus tells us His bride, “You are all fair, My love, and there is no spot in you.” But our reply to Him tends to be, “Me? All fair and no spot? You don’t know me, Lord!”

Do you really think that God doesn’t know you?

God sees reality like no one else sees it. He sees the perfection of His Son’s finished work in your life. By one offering of Himself at the cross, Jesus has perfected you forever! (Hebrews 10:14) You have been made the righteousness of God in Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:21) And you will never find any spot in this righteousness that Jesus died to give you.


So God wants you to see yourself righteous—all fair and spotless in Christ. Every day, be conscious of your righteousness in Christ. Say, “I am the righteousness of God in Christ. There is no spot in me whom He has perfected with His blood.” When you do that, you are honoring Jesus and His finished work.

If you are conscious of your sins, then you are not honoring the work of Christ. You may think that you are being humble or holy by being sin-conscious. But do you know that the Bible calls sin-consciousness an “evil conscience”?


Hebrews 10:21–22 tells us that since we have Jesus as our High Priest, “let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience”. What does the writer of Hebrews mean by “an evil conscience”?

If you read the beginning of the same chapter, you will find that he is talking about a “consciousness of sins”. (Hebrews 10:2) Paul calls it a “conscience seared with a hot iron”. (1 Timothy 4:2) The Greek word for “seared” here is kauteriazo, and it means to carry about with you a perpetual consciousness of sin.


So don’t carry with you an evil or seared conscience. Your lifetime of sins has already been punished fully in the body of Jesus at the cross. Be conscious, instead, of your perfection and righteousness in Christ. Because of what Jesus has done for you, you can boldly declare, “I am all fair. There is no spot in me!”

This is an excellent message and applies to this topic.

Destined To Reign Devotional J.Prince

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I can witness to this, you and I had some long debates years ago, but I do feel you are much kinder in your replies now. Also I apologize for any offense or hurtful things I said in the past. I think we are good, but if not I’d like to wipe the slate clean.

I'm more mellow because a certain noise level is gone. Apology accepted (though I don't remember any offense, just tussle), and I apologize to you for any harshness or disrespect I showed towards you.

 

[Gabriel2020]

The only way to tell a bad apple from a good apple, even though they look identical is to taste them. Same way with us Christians. We taste each other by what is being said, and how it is being said. Harm is bad, and edification is good.

 

[Lewiz]

well JGIG, the one trying to control would be you

I have to say you certainly are consistent

someone suggests an alternative for her beliefs because she gets so upset if anyone disagrees with her and you twist it to make it seem other than what it is

duly noted and I am sure we can all see what you did here

you really are all about control IMO. but of course that is not a personal insult as you, no doubt, are aware since you are the only one who can accurately judge what a personal insult is

the rest of us, are ignorant beyond belief and comedic in our posts

now tell us what you really said

In psychology circles it's called deflection

 

[Lewiz]

Must be you on da right, huh?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Exactly! People were labeling teachings on grace they didn’t agree with as “hyper”. And then they would attack the poster for their beliefs by saying their teachings came from so and so. Calling them names, heretics, etc. Then the defenders of grace would step in and the pattern would repeat. I believe the spirit behind this wasn’t the doctrine, but in the mindset that it’s okay to attack believers for doctrines they don’t agree with. This is what the Catholic Church did to Martin Luther. They tried to silence him and the doctrine that scholars of the day didn’t agree with. And finally resorted to name calling, public humiliation, and then ultimately killing those who didn’t believe like them. I believe Scripture calls for us to discuss doctrine, but the labeling, the belittling, the heretical claims, and other dishonest tactics like this need to be minimized.

In my opinion, Scripture is more towards ignoring people who argue about doctrine and more towards correcting each other for behavioral conduct that doesn’t reveal Christ. Even going so far as to say those with the correct teaching, but not conduct are false teachers and hypocrites. Because it is our lives that teach not our doctrinal arguments. I believe we must allow Holy Spirit to teach us when we are wrong and allow Him to teach others when they are in order to honestly honor one another and grow together in love and truth. I discovered getting my desire for righteousness in Him is critical to believing I don’t need to be right always. But it’s a journey for sure!

I've been reading some of those threads and you are really glossing over what ensued

your description is actually description light

I know I have mentioned more than once in the current threads, that it is just not the teaching on grace, but all that is behind that hg teaching such as not having to ask any forgiveness or never mind Jesus because He was under the law and so on

you just passed over the entire thing as though it was in everyone's imagination

yet it seems people were banned over it

somebody thought that it was serious

perhaps they looked a little deeper than just a different approach to grace

our lives do not teach Christ if we preach a false gospel...like Jesus' teachings are OT

that's not biblical and not to be dismissed

 

[Lewiz]

Why would I need that, when Joanie, who I was addressing, clearly says she is a paying member, and that gives her the right to post anything she wants, regardless of the stickie. Joanie, I have heard, was given permission to post hypergrace, BEFORE the stickie on the top of the discussion list of the BDF, said hypergrace was heresy, and it was not to be allowed. Well, before it was edited, anyway. That was the conclusion of months and months of fighting about this issue, which ended up in threads being closed.

Angela, is this true? JM was given permission to do what everyone else can't do? I have a hard time believing that.

Not that I doubt your honesty, but believing the Admin did that.

Wow....... just wow.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Correct doctrine is essential. Vaunting so-called "loving behavior" over doctrine is an easy means of subverting and destroying true doctrine because the gauge for measuring "loving behavior" is so relative. Many times that appeal is used as a means of silencing opposing ideas.

A tree is known by its fruit. When someone here espouses ideas that align with the teachings of certain people who are known to teach a specific doctrine, then it's fair to say that the person is a follower of that doctrine. It really doesn't matter if that person doesn't like being labeled that way, that is what they believe.

hello..........

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Wow..........just wow.

You've been squacking against 7seasrekeyed all over the 10 Reasons Sin Confession Is Questionable!!! thread about what she is posting, & now you do a 180 & saying this?

Do we have a right to post our opinions, or not?!?

num

did she do the same there? or do you mean just here...I have not tussled with her there

if I did, it must not have been memorable..shrugs

joanie says we have the right to post our opinions

until we do

 

[7seasrekeyed]

In psychology circles it's called deflection

huh

well here it is just called 'going in circles'

although I have seen some refer to it as circular reasoning

I think I have earned 3 or 4 extra credits towards some sort of interpretation degree

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Must be you on da right, huh?

LOL! de smackdown

there is humor here but almost dangerous to say so

 

[Cee]

Personally, I’ve seen many people banned for their conduct, but much fewer banned for their doctrine.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...joanie says we have the right to post our opinions...

This is similar to the Left-Liberals who are all for free speech except Conservative free speech. Now they hate poor Kanye West.

So Facebook makes sure that nothing conservative appears on FB -- which is thought control and speech control similar to the Communists. Zuckerberg is a great pal of the Chinese government, and is probably learning his anti-free-speech lessons from them.

None of all this discussion in a handful of threads would have been necessary if the teachings of false teachers were not being aggressively promoted.