GOD'S DISCIPLINE ISN'T PUNISHEMENT FOR PAST SINS...

[Cee]

I think a lot of the... animosity here, back and forth, would be gone (or at least diminished) if people didn't try to use blanket terms to invalidate and ostracize fellow believers in Christ. I used to be guilty of this, attaching the term "legalist" to others, but its been quite some time. People still haven't repented of this tactic, continually devaluing other's contributions to the discussion by placing them in a box and invalidating their perspective by categorizing them (as WOF, Hyper-Grace, etc).

How will we ever be in unity, when we continue to ostracize and alienate one another? We sow discord by these actions. Cannot we simply address the scripture provided and not defame each other?

I agree, I try to focus on discussing Scripture and ideas behind them. In truth personal remarks should only be edifying. Not always easy, especially in the heat of the moment, but I believe it is the most Biblical approach.

And more than likely people don’t change their belief structure through a logical confrontation, because there is an emotional/experiential component that is difficult to replicate on a forum. As such, many times in our logic we are simply justifying our illogical experiences.

I say all that to say, many of us have it wrong, I’m sure I do in areas, but it’s our conduct with one another that is judged. When Jesus compares sheep and goats, His focus is in our conduct, not on having right content. Even as we debate works and grace, we see that the most widely used “works are required” passages are typically given in Scripture to address believers conduct with one another.

So what’s humorous to me is that people who are focusing on these Scriptures are generally increasing the need to love one another more. Not to use against each other, but to follow for themselves. Regardless of offense and emotional debate history.

 

[Angela53510]

Angela., 7seas, Nehemiah, lewis.., It's obvious you guys do not respect the opinions or the rights of others on CC to freely share and express our Christian faith and encourage our brethren in the Love of Jesus and the Bible.

According to you guys by your obvious constant angry posts here., I and others on CC who are paying members have no right to listen to the Christians we like nor are we allowed according to you to share what we have learned here in this thread and other threads on these forums about Jesus Christ and our relationship with Him.

If you owned this Christian chat site it would be different., but you don't and I have not posted anything that is against the rules here. I'm a born again Christian woman who values this place and enjoys posting here when I don't have to deal with this malarkey

I'm tired of this nonsense and I'm going to report this constant BARRAGE to the powers that be here on CC.

How long have you had access to CC's private info to know who pays and who doesn't?

We have seven children with two in college - supporting CC doesn't make the cut for our finances, though I would like to.

Again, you have made a blanket, unsubstantiated statement about a group of people you disagree with for the sole purpose of discrediting them.

Malarkey, I think was the word describing that kind of behavior.






I think, and Joanie, please correct me if I'm wrong, that Joanie cares enough about this place and loves the people here enough to support this venue financially so that it can continue to be online. But you have to turn that into something ugly and nefarious, again labeling her a heretic, for the sole purpose of discrediting her.





Good grief.

OVER AND OVER we beg you guys - COME LET US REASON TOGETHER.

But you just won't.

Instead, it's you guys saying,

"No, you're wrong, because . . . HERESY!!!!"
"No, you're wrong, because . . . GNOSTICISM!!!"
"No, you're wrong, because . . . HYPER GRACE!!!!"
"No, you're wrong, because . . . WOF!!!!"​

. . . and then you all go about setting up straw men and valiantly knock them over, hoping that the moderators will ban us for bringing into threads things that we have not brought.

Which is fine. I'm sure no one notices.

Carry on.

-JGIG

Really JGIG?? Really?? This is how carefully you read what is written? And the post I directly replied to? That I need to have access to CC’s member and donation list?

Why would I need that, when Joanie, who I was addressing, clearly says she is a paying member, and that gives her the right to post anything she wants, regardless of the stickie. Joanie, I have heard, was given permission to post hypergrace, BEFORE the stickie on the top of the discussion list of the BDF, said hypergrace was heresy, and it was not to be allowed. Well, before it was edited, anyway. That was the conclusion of months and months of fighting about this issue, which ended up in threads being closed.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/143507-hyper-grace-preachers-doctrine-cc.html

Of course, you were probably not here during that whole time, and have no idea what went on to result in that stickied post.

Anyway, if this is how carefully you read the Bible, like you read Joanie’s post, that I replied to, I can see why you have so many erroneous and unbiblical beliefs. Who cares about the details, like what the Bible actually says, or in this case, what Joanie said?

And the fact is, people come on here, like Joanie, posting things from avowed hypergrace teachers, and side with those beliefs, and yet, for some reason, we should shut our mouths and not call a spade a spade?

I am a forthright person. If someone says they are hypergrace because of x,y and z. Then I will counter those arguments, which are hypergrace. Or gnostic, or WoF, or anything else that is not Biblical.

As for you, I see your real character coming out in the anger in all those caps! You hold to a heretical doctrine, and you hate it when people are not bowing down to your extra-biblical knowledge. I do pray God will show you the truth, and this arrogance will be replaced by compassion and love. And a closer walk with Jesus, and understanding the real truths in God’s Word!

 

[Angela53510]

I agree, I try to focus on discussing Scripture and ideas behind them. In truth personal remarks should only be edifying. Not always easy, especially in the heat of the moment, but I believe it is the most Biblical approach.

And more than likely people don’t change their belief structure through a logical confrontation, because there is an emotional/experiential component that is difficult to replicate on a forum. As such, many times in our logic we are simply justifying our illogical experiences.

I say all that to say, many of us have it wrong, I’m sure I do in areas, but it’s our conduct with one another that is judged. When Jesus compares sheep and goats, His focus is in our conduct, not on having right content. Even as we debate works and grace, we see that the most widely used “works are required” passages are typically given in Scripture to address believers conduct with one another.

So what’s humorous to me is that people who are focusing on these Scriptures are generally increasing the need to love one another more. Not to use against each other, but to follow for themselves. Regardless of offense and emotional debate history.

You know ai appreciate your contributions to the discussions, but I have to disagree. You start with your agenda, God is a Father, God never chastizes his children, God is love and therefore not just, etc etc.

Then your post a copy and paste of every verse in the Bible that agrees with your presupposition. That is eisegesis, and it is why you and all the other people who are in this discussion on the hypergrace side, are simply posting their own views, and using the Bible to prop up those views.

The way to read the Bible, is to take a passage, or more, and read it in context of the message of the chapter, and the book. So, who was this message originally written to, how would they take it? Then, put that idea against the whole Bible. No, guaranteed complete healing is not found in any passage in the Bible. Just some verses out of context. So, therefore, to come out with “healing is in the atonement” is reading INTO the Bible what you want it to say.

Now, I am not saying you do this anymore about healing. But you do it with words studies and copy and pastes of those words, by taking what you want it to say, and making it say that.

Next time you want to post the Bible, look at the passage for one verse only. Post the whole passage, and then read what it says, taking into account the context of the original writer and the rest of the book and Bible. Instead of these google word searches, and come up with a bunch of verses that really don’t support what you are saying, if anyone took the time to look them up in context.

Bad doctrine comes out of English word studies. It is supporting what you believe, rather than the actual message of the Bible. If you want me to elaborate, just ask me. It is rather startling a concept. I took a whole course in hermeneutics, and realized how much I had been missing in my reading of the Bible. But, hermeneutics works. English word searches do not!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Angela., 7seas, Nehemiah, lewis.., It's obvious you guys do not respect the opinions or the rights of others on CC to freely share and express our Christian faith and encourage our brethren in the Love of Jesus and the Bible.

According to you guys by your obvious constant angry posts here., I and others on CC who are paying members have no right to listen to the Christians we like nor are we allowed according to you to share what we have learned here in this thread and other threads on these forums about Jesus Christ and our relationship with Him.

If you owned this Christian chat site it would be different., but you don't and I have not posted anything that is against the rules here. I'm a born again Christian woman who values this place and enjoys posting here when I don't have to deal with this malarkey

I'm tired of this nonsense and I'm going to report this constant BARRAGE to the powers that be here on CC.

really?

so only paying members are free to begin an op or post in a thread of yours?

why don't you tell us you are a paying member here and pay for space?

oh wait you just did

listen...you may have the idea it's all about paying? but I do not think that is the intent of the owner

further, people here contribute without getting angry about it and trying to defend the indefensible

we object to your constant barrage of the topic we are not supposed to talk about while saying that is not what you are doing

I did see how JGIG jumped on Angela and totally twisted what Angela said

you two are like a tag time ever since she joined or started posting again

According to you guys by your obvious constant angry posts here

you know, this is your typical whine. other people are angry. other people don't like you. other people are wrong and you are right end of discussion.

my favorite though, is you saying how we are allowed to have different viewpoints and then promptly bringing down the hammer on people who simply disagree with NOT EVEN YOU, but the people you copy/paste from

honey, there is no malarkey here for you to deal with.

if you would see that others are allowed to disagree with what you post and not take everything personally, unless your name is Prince or whoever, you could reasonably explain why you disagree instead of spamming blanket statements from banned members, hg teachers who believe we don't have to pay attention to Jesus or forgive even though Jesus insists we do need to forgive

you are simply irritated that you are not allowed to have the little soapbox you seem to fancy yourself standing on

it seems you cannot acknowledge that you cannot defend what you preach here, so you get angry and accuse others of the very thing you consistently do yourself

constant angry posts? are you a graduate of drama school?

unbelievable

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Really JGIG?? Really?? This is how carefully you read what is written? And the post I directly replied to? That I need to have access to CC’s member and donation list?

Why would I need that, when Joanie, who I was addressing, clearly says she is a paying member, and that gives her the right to post anything she wants, regardless of the stickie. Joanie, I have heard, was given permission to post hypergrace, BEFORE the stickie on the top of the discussion list of the BDF, said hypergrace was heresy, and it was not to be allowed. Well, before it was edited, anyway. That was the conclusion of months and months of fighting about this issue, which ended up in threads being closed.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/143507-hyper-grace-preachers-doctrine-cc.html

Of course, you were probably not here during that whole time, and have no idea what went on to result in that stickied post.

Anyway, if this is how carefully you read the Bible, like you read Joanie’s post, that I replied to, I can see why you have so many erroneous and unbiblical beliefs. Who cares about the details, like what the Bible actually says, or in this case, what Joanie said?

And the fact is, people come on here, like Joanie, posting things from avowed hypergrace teachers, and side with those beliefs, and yet, for some reason, we should shut our mouths and not call a spade a spade?

I am a forthright person. If someone says they are hypergrace because of x,y and z. Then I will counter those arguments, which are hypergrace. Or gnostic, or WoF, or anything else that is not Biblical.

As for you, I see your real character coming out in the anger in all those caps! You hold to a heretical doctrine, and you hate it when people are not bowing down to your extra-biblical knowledge. I do pray God will show you the truth, and this arrogance will be replaced by compassion and love. And a closer walk with Jesus, and understanding the real truths in God’s Word!

here here

well said

 

[Cee]

Angela,

I appreciate your comment and while I do not agree with the idea that I paste word studies etc, but I understand your point of view. I wonder if you realize saying things like, “If anyone took the time to look at the context” is belittling and insulting? In that sentence you imply I don’t look at context because I disagree with your interpretation.

I’m not hurt or upset, but you tend to write as if what you share is the truth and everyone is deceived if they don’t agree. And then you discount all other forms of evidence. This is exactly what you do when you disparage using the English Interlinear. This approach puts the Bible and interpretation out of the “common man’s” reach. This is why the Bible was written in Latin and only “higher educated” people could interpret. By doing this they were able to control what they deemed correct or wrong. And those they called wrong they called them heretical, I see this tactic used quite often even today.

Yet God in all His glory died so that we might have a personal relationship with the Author Himself. Not so they can be persuaded by wise words to believe only like you do. But I will consider the “contextual approach” which I did extensively years ago, but people tend to ignore long posts. I’ve been here quite awhile Angela. I know what I believe and why I believe it. You have issues with hyper grace and the teaching healing is in the atonement. That’s fine. I get it. But don’t make your issues with doctrine an issue with me. I’m not a doctrine. And you don’t need to save people from the ability to reason out Scripture for themselves. God didn’t write His Book so only the highly educated could get it.

So here’s my suggestion back to you let people study the Bible for themselves, let them search out the Greek, let them have a personal relationship with God. They might be eating something you don’t agree with, and you could convince them to believe like you, but if it’s not faith, it’s sin for them. They will give account to God. Not you. And if you don’t agree with them that’s fine, share it in a nice way, discuss the Scriptures, pray for them, and let Holy Spirit Who is well able to uphold His followers do so. Because He will. He promises He will in His Scriptures. He convicts and He teaches. I have to remind myself of this daily because of countless hours I’ve spent understanding His word and I see theological mistakes, fallacies, and illogical conclusions constantly. But I remind myself Truth is a Person. And I’m probably wrong myself way more than my own personal blindness and bias has shown me. But I’m not afraid of being wrong because I know the goodness of God. And He has free reign and unlimited resources to correct me. Sometimes He uses me to correct His people and sometimes He doesn’t, but He Himself is the one who causes the increase.

Feel free to ignore my suggestion, I’m writing it because of our long history together. I don’t at all enjoy writing like this to you. It actually deeply hurts my heart because I think quite highly of you. Yet I am hoping because you feel an invitation and permission to correct me you will in turn receive mine. Bless you.

 

[blue_ladybug]

It's kinda obvious that JM no longer has permission from Robo to post her teachings and devotionals from hyper grace and Woof teachers. The permission that Robo gave her, got nullified by the creation of CS1's thread, referenced in Angela's post above. At the creation of that thread, CS1 was an Admin. So in simple terms, JM no longer has that permission, and she knows it because it's been pointed out to her more than once.

Yet she persists in posting her teachings from heretical teachers.

 

[Cee]

You know ai appreciate your contributions to the discussions, but I have to disagree. You start with your agenda, God is a Father, God never chastizes his children, God is love and therefore not just, etc etc.

Then your post a copy and paste of every verse in the Bible that agrees with your presupposition. That is eisegesis, and it is why you and all the other people who are in this discussion on the hypergrace side, are simply posting their own views, and using the Bible to prop up those views.

The way to read the Bible, is to take a passage, or more, and read it in context of the message of the chapter, and the book. So, who was this message originally written to, how would they take it? Then, put that idea against the whole Bible. No, guaranteed complete healing is not found in any passage in the Bible. Just some verses out of context. So, therefore, to come out with “healing is in the atonement” is reading INTO the Bible what you want it to say.

Now, I am not saying you do this anymore about healing. But you do it with words studies and copy and pastes of those words, by taking what you want it to say, and making it say that.

Next time you want to post the Bible, look at the passage for one verse only. Post the whole passage, and then read what it says, taking into account the context of the original writer and the rest of the book and Bible. Instead of these google word searches, and come up with a bunch of verses that really don’t support what you are saying, if anyone took the time to look them up in context.

Bad doctrine comes out of English word studies. It is supporting what you believe, rather than the actual message of the Bible. If you want me to elaborate, just ask me. It is rather startling a concept. I took a whole course in hermeneutics, and realized how much I had been missing in my reading of the Bible. But, hermeneutics works. English word searches do not!

I realize I didn’t comment directly, but please show me where I’ve taught what you say I do. I’ve never said God isn’t just, never said God doesn’t chastise, and as I can I reply extensively when people debate me with Scriptures rebuttals, I’ve written massive contextual posts about what I believe and why I do. I haven’t said anything you say I do. Please stop putting me and others in boxes to advance your persuasion agenda. I will go toe to toe, Scripture to Scripture, context to context with you anytime. You are not superior to me intellectual or spirituality. Nor anyone else’s on this forum. We all have unique understandings, giftings, and relationship with our Father. And yes, people who are far more versed in the Scripture than you or I don’t agree with our interpretations either. Did you ever consider God wrote His Scripture in such a way as to give us an opportunity to disagree with each other’s interpretations and still choose to continue in honor and love? And in disagreements to allow us to trust Him even in the midst of our doctrinal “contradictions”? Look at the order of the cosmos, He reveals Himself as very intentional. Maybe this is all part of His discipleship processs.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I'm tired of this nonsense and I'm going to report this constant BARRAGE to the powers that be here on CC.

I hope the powers that be carefully examine all your OPs in the light of Scripture, and what they falsely teach. And I hope they tell you to cease and desist from posting spiritual nonsense.

Christian forums are for the discussion of Bible truth, not for the promotion of false doctrine.

 

[JGIG]

It's kinda obvious that JM no longer has permission from Robo to post her teachings and devotionals from hyper grace and Woof teachers. The permission that Robo gave her, got nullified by the creation of CS1's thread, referenced in Angela's post above. At the creation of that thread, CS1 was an Admin. So in simple terms, JM no longer has that permission, and she knows it because it's been pointed out to her more than once.

Yet she persists in posting her teachings from heretical teachers.

If a moderator had pointed out to Joanie that she may not post certain things, she would have abided by that, or she'd have been banned long ago.


The ban regarding 'hyper grace' threads did not have to do with posting teachings *by* so-called hyper grace teachers, but a ban on starting threads *about* hyper grace (either pro or con) or starting threads *about* so-called hyper grace teachers. See clarifications in CS1's post below:

Good morning ,

it has been a long - suffering and very patient with many in here pertaining to the topic of "hyper-grace" and those who seem to bring this topic up in every post no matter what the thread maybe . Moderators have addressed the issues with some in Bible discussion forum pertaining to this Subject " hyper-grace". We have received more submissions of infractions due to this topic. And the same names keep coming up. Moderators have asked what is hyper grace and where do you stand on the subject? those who were asked have provided their understanding. Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.
Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue . And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it. remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.

God bless,

very respectfully,

CS1
​

Again, the ban was not on posting teachings/devotionals by so-called hyper grace teachers, but on threads *about* so-called hyper grace teachers. When someone posts something from or links to a pastor they enjoy learning from - that is okay. This may have been clarified in the thread that prompted the sticky (I believe CS1 entered that particular thread and alerted us to the new sticky) - it was a long time ago and I don't remember what the thread was to go back and look.

Understanding this, back in January of 2017, I PMed CS1 to ask for permission to post an article *about* Joseph Prince and Michael Brown:

Hi CS1,

In light of the sticky on Hyper Grace, I'm asking for your permission to post the following article in the BDF. I think it shows how two well-known men of God who have disagreements and [can] still find agreement on core issues of the Gospel.

Thanks in advance for your consideration!

Grace and peace,
-JGIG
​

I then posted the text of the article, which is too long to put here (but you can access HERE) and CS1 did give permission for me to post it. Life got busy, and I just didn't have the time to keep up with a thread, so I didn't end up posting the article. I asked for permission to post a topic that was *about* a so-called hyper grace teacher, and knew to ask if that was okay.

If it was not okay to post devotionals/teachings *by* so-called hyper grace teachers, Joanie would have been banned long ago, lol! She has done nothing to violate either the letter or the spirit of CS1's sticky. And CS1 is still a moderator, and if he had a problem with her posting such things, I'm guessing he would have let her know.



Since CS1's sticky did not ban the posting of devotionals/teachings by so-called hyper grace teachers, those who oppose so-called hyper grace teaching (or WOF or whatever else they're against), they'll see a post or thread, slap a label of hyper grace or WOF or whatever on it and then go to town mischaracterizing, misrepresenting, and demonizing everything/everyone they disagree with and hope that moderators will tire of the stirred up conflict and controversy and close the thread or ban certain users.



This thread is a perfect example of just that scenario.


-JGIG

 

[Nehemiah6]

... appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it.

What do you think this means?

Starting a topic on "hyper grace" means presenting a topic which was put together by a Hyper Grace preacher. This is jm's consistent modus operandi.

Never does she start a topic in her own words or presenting her own thoughts. It is always *devotionals* from Joseph Prince, or Paul Ellis, or some other such false teacher. And sometimes she does not state the source so that an unwitting reader will imagine that those are her thoughts. That is plagiarism.

Well appropriate action was not taken when participants reported these OPs over a period of time. But according to the rules, they should have been shut down long ago.

 

[JGIG]

If a moderator had pointed out to Joanie that she may not post certain things, she would have abided by that, or she'd have been banned long ago.


The ban regarding 'hyper grace' threads did not have to do with posting teachings *by* so-called hyper grace teachers, but a ban on starting threads *about* hyper grace (either pro or con) or starting threads *about* so-called hyper grace teachers. See clarifications in CS1's post below:

Good morning ,

it has been a long - suffering and very patient with many in here pertaining to the topic of "hyper-grace" and those who seem to bring this topic up in every post no matter what the thread maybe . Moderators have addressed the issues with some in Bible discussion forum pertaining to this Subject " hyper-grace". We have received more submissions of infractions due to this topic. And the same names keep coming up. Moderators have asked what is hyper grace and where do you stand on the subject? those who were asked have provided their understanding. Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.
Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue . And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it. remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.

God bless,

very respectfully,

CS1
​

Again, the ban was not on posting teachings/devotionals by so-called hyper grace teachers, but on threads *about* so-called hyper grace teachers. When someone posts something from or links to a pastor they enjoy learning from - that is okay. This may have been clarified in the thread that prompted the sticky (I believe CS1 entered that particular thread and alerted us to the new sticky) - it was a long time ago and I don't remember what the thread was to go back and look.

Understanding this, back in January of 2017, I PMed CS1 to ask for permission to post an article *about* Joseph Prince and Michael Brown:

Hi CS1,

In light of the sticky on Hyper Grace, I'm asking for your permission to post the following article in the BDF. I think it shows how two well-known men of God who have disagreements and [can] still find agreement on core issues of the Gospel.

Thanks in advance for your consideration!

Grace and peace,
-JGIG
​

I then posted the text of the article, which is too long to put here (but you can access HERE) and CS1 did give permission for me to post it. Life got busy, and I just didn't have the time to keep up with a thread, so I didn't end up posting the article. I asked for permission to post a topic that was *about* a so-called hyper grace teacher, and knew to ask if that was okay.

If it was not okay to post devotionals/teachings *by* so-called hyper grace teachers, Joanie would have been banned long ago, lol! She has done nothing to violate either the letter or the spirit of CS1's sticky. And CS1 is still a moderator, and if he had a problem with her posting such things, I'm guessing he would have let her know.



Since CS1's sticky did not ban the posting of devotionals/teachings by so-called hyper grace teachers, those who oppose so-called hyper grace teaching (or WOF or whatever else they're against), they'll see a post or thread, slap a label of hyper grace or WOF or whatever on it and then go to town mischaracterizing, misrepresenting, and demonizing everything/everyone they disagree with and hope that moderators will tire of the stirred up conflict and controversy and close the thread or ban certain users.



This thread is a perfect example of just that scenario.


-JGIG

What do you think this means?

Starting a topic on "hyper grace" means presenting a topic which was put together by a Hyper Grace preacher. This is jm's consistent modus operandi.

Never does she start a topic in her own words or presenting her own thoughts. It is always *devotionals* from Joseph Prince, or Paul Ellis, or some other such false teacher. And sometimes she does not state the source so that an unwitting reader will imagine that those are her thoughts. That is plagiarism.

Well appropriate action was not taken when participants reported these OPs over a period of time. But according to the rules, they should have been shut down long ago.

So let me get this straight: You and others have reported Joanie to moderators when you feel like she violated CS1's sticky, but they did not take (in your opinion) appropriate action?

Here's a thought: Maybe, just maybe - YOU have misread CS1's sticky, and the mods didn't take action against Joanie because she violated nothing.

-JGIG

 

[Cee]

If a moderator had pointed out to Joanie that she may not post certain things, she would have abided by that, or she'd have been banned long ago.


The ban regarding 'hyper grace' threads did not have to do with posting teachings *by* so-called hyper grace teachers, but a ban on starting threads *about* hyper grace (either pro or con) or starting threads *about* so-called hyper grace teachers. See clarifications in CS1's post below:

Good morning ,

it has been a long - suffering and very patient with many in here pertaining to the topic of "hyper-grace" and those who seem to bring this topic up in every post no matter what the thread maybe . Moderators have addressed the issues with some in Bible discussion forum pertaining to this Subject " hyper-grace". We have received more submissions of infractions due to this topic. And the same names keep coming up. Moderators have asked what is hyper grace and where do you stand on the subject? those who were asked have provided their understanding. Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.
Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue . And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it. remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.

God bless,

very respectfully,

CS1
​

Again, the ban was not on posting teachings/devotionals by so-called hyper grace teachers, but on threads *about* so-called hyper grace teachers. When someone posts something from or links to a pastor they enjoy learning from - that is okay. This may have been clarified in the thread that prompted the sticky (I believe CS1 entered that particular thread and alerted us to the new sticky) - it was a long time ago and I don't remember what the thread was to go back and look.

Understanding this, back in January of 2017, I PMed CS1 to ask for permission to post an article *about* Joseph Prince and Michael Brown:

Hi CS1,

In light of the sticky on Hyper Grace, I'm asking for your permission to post the following article in the BDF. I think it shows how two well-known men of God who have disagreements and [can] still find agreement on core issues of the Gospel.

Thanks in advance for your consideration!

Grace and peace,
-JGIG
​

I then posted the text of the article, which is too long to put here (but you can access HERE) and CS1 did give permission for me to post it. Life got busy, and I just didn't have the time to keep up with a thread, so I didn't end up posting the article. I asked for permission to post a topic that was *about* a so-called hyper grace teacher, and knew to ask if that was okay.

If it was not okay to post devotionals/teachings *by* so-called hyper grace teachers, Joanie would have been banned long ago, lol! She has done nothing to violate either the letter or the spirit of CS1's sticky. And CS1 is still a moderator, and if he had a problem with her posting such things, I'm guessing he would have let her know.



Since CS1's sticky did not ban the posting of devotionals/teachings by so-called hyper grace teachers, those who oppose so-called hyper grace teaching (or WOF or whatever else they're against), they'll see a post or thread, slap a label of hyper grace or WOF or whatever on it and then go to town mischaracterizing, misrepresenting, and demonizing everything/everyone they disagree with and hope that moderators will tire of the stirred up conflict and controversy and close the thread or ban certain users.



This thread is a perfect example of just that scenario.


-JGIG

Exactly! People were labeling teachings on grace they didn’t agree with as “hyper”. And then they would attack the poster for their beliefs by saying their teachings came from so and so. Calling them names, heretics, etc. Then the defenders of grace would step in and the pattern would repeat. I believe the spirit behind this wasn’t the doctrine, but in the mindset that it’s okay to attack believers for doctrines they don’t agree with. This is what the Catholic Church did to Martin Luther. They tried to silence him and the doctrine that scholars of the day didn’t agree with. And finally resorted to name calling, public humiliation, and then ultimately killing those who didn’t believe like them. I believe Scripture calls for us to discuss doctrine, but the labeling, the belittling, the heretical claims, and other dishonest tactics like this need to be minimized.

In my opinion, Scripture is more towards ignoring people who argue about doctrine and more towards correcting each other for behavioral conduct that doesn’t reveal Christ. Even going so far as to say those with the correct teaching, but not conduct are false teachers and hypocrites. Because it is our lives that teach not our doctrinal arguments. I believe we must allow Holy Spirit to teach us when we are wrong and allow Him to teach others when they are in order to honestly honor one another and grow together in love and truth. I discovered getting my desire for righteousness in Him is critical to believing I don’t need to be right always. But it’s a journey for sure!

 

[Cee]

other sides defenders of grace*

 

[Lewiz]

And another time trying to get the thread on track again.

Who would have thunk joaniemarie would spam her own thread by pasting multiple posts?

Should someone report this, or is she allowed to do that?

 

[Lewiz]

You should start your own thread on the subject then 7seas. Stop coming on my threads derailing the topic. I can't convince you I'm not a villainous outlaw and I'm not going to try to. Discussing the topic is good and right.., attacking people personally for not agreeing with you is not.

IF I was such a horrible anti Christ person who's only goal is to spread heresy, I would not be allowed on CC and if you have questions and concerns about it you should ask the owner who has allowed me here. Take up your cause with him and not me. You only continue to stir up strife going against the rules of the Christian chat site.

I don't think you'll find a single member(esp. in the BDF) that will believe that.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Exactly! People were labeling teachings on grace they didn’t agree with as “hyper”. And then they would attack the poster for their beliefs by saying their teachings came from so and so. Calling them names, heretics, etc. Then the defenders of grace would step in and the pattern would repeat. I believe the spirit behind this wasn’t the doctrine, but in the mindset that it’s okay to attack believers for doctrines they don’t agree with. This is what the Catholic Church did to Martin Luther. They tried to silence him and the doctrine that scholars of the day didn’t agree with. And finally resorted to name calling, public humiliation, and then ultimately killing those who didn’t believe like them. I believe Scripture calls for us to discuss doctrine, but the labeling, the belittling, the heretical claims, and other dishonest tactics like this need to be minimized.

In my opinion, Scripture is more towards ignoring people who argue about doctrine and more towards correcting each other for behavioral conduct that doesn’t reveal Christ. Even going so far as to say those with the correct teaching, but not conduct are false teachers and hypocrites. Because it is our lives that teach not our doctrinal arguments. I believe we must allow Holy Spirit to teach us when we are wrong and allow Him to teach others when they are in order to honestly honor one another and grow together in love and truth. I discovered getting my desire for righteousness in Him is critical to believing I don’t need to be right always. But it’s a journey for sure!

Correct doctrine is essential. Vaunting so-called "loving behavior" over doctrine is an easy means of subverting and destroying true doctrine because the gauge for measuring "loving behavior" is so relative. Many times that appeal is used as a means of silencing opposing ideas.

A tree is known by its fruit. When someone here espouses ideas that align with the teachings of certain people who are known to teach a specific doctrine, then it's fair to say that the person is a follower of that doctrine. It really doesn't matter if that person doesn't like being labeled that way, that is what they believe.

 

[UnderGrace]

Spamming are unsolicited electronic messages, I do not think it really applies since the discussion board is not an email client.

Who would have thunk joaniemarie would spam her own thread by pasting multiple posts?

Should someone report this, or is she allowed to do that?

 

[Cee]

Correct doctrine is essential. Vaunting so-called "loving behavior" over doctrine is an easy means of subverting and destroying true doctrine because the gauge for measuring "loving behavior" is so relative. Many times that appeal is used as a means of silencing opposing ideas.

A tree is known by its fruit. When someone here espouses ideas that align with the teachings of certain people who are known to teach a specific doctrine, then it's fair to say that the person is a follower of that doctrine. It really doesn't matter if that person doesn't like being labeled that way, that is what they believe.

I agree correct doctrine is essential! Especially in that it leads us to loving Him more and loving one another more. This is why understanding repentance is so important. I believe a lot of people focus on a teaching of sinful awareness, but it doesn’t lead to lasting change because at the end they are not having new truth to embrace only new things to avoid.

To me, Biblical repentance always leads to seeing Him greater. It is this encounter that transforms us to be more like Him and our fruit follows. Doctrine is given to establish this. Please notice the words given, it is for building up, correcting, reproof, teaching... all of these words have a final goal in mind. If we correct there must be a better ideal, we teach to disciple and train up, we reproof to strip away what isn’t of the final image. These are continually given to lead people to the gospel, God with us. Unitied in Him as His holy temples.

In my opinion, if behavior modification worked, billions of believers would be the most loving people on the planet. As we discover His goodness, kindness, and love for us, we discover Him through us. Doctrine is given to lead us to greater relationship with Him and each other.

 

[Lewiz]

Yet you won't check out what he teaches, just what others have written about what he teaches, using few, out of context excerpts from his book.

You're right, we can all read, listen to, and/or watch what Farley teaches. But you have not, and will not.

I'm content for the reader to do as they will and make their own decisions.

Good morning ,

it has been a long - suffering and very patient with many in here pertaining to the topic of "hyper-grace" and those who seem to bring this topic up in every post no matter what the thread maybe . Moderators have addressed the issues with some in Bible discussion forum pertaining to this Subject " hyper-grace". We have received more submissions of infractions due to this topic. And the same names keep coming up. Moderators have asked what is hyper grace and where do you stand on the subject? those who were asked have provided their understanding. Now it is not that CC agree with nor against this doctrine as many hold to calvinist and the positions and have scriptural ref to support their understanding. BUT maturity and not attacking those is what is needed. here is what we get when the "hyper grace" topic is brought up:

1. your not saved
2. attacks
3. false teacher
4. infraction submitted
5. request for account to be closed
6. name calling
7. "hyper grace" brought into every post when not even the topic of origin

I have given you 7 reasons why this topic is not good for CC Thread and I have yet to find one reason for it.
Admin and the moderators will no longer allow this to continue . And appropriate action will be taken if a member or guest starts a topic on "hyper grace " or Preachers who teach it. remember those who attack each other many of them call themselves christians yet we eat and devour each other. enough is enough. I am not going to dress you personally at this time... You have an opportunity to let it go or CC Admin and Moderators will take action.

God bless,

very respectfully,
CS1​

7seas, the only one doing anything on the list of grievances posted by Mods is YOU. The topic of this thread was about the discipline of God, not about 'hyper-grace'.

Let's see which things on the list you and a couple of others have done in this thread:

• tried to make it about hyper-grace instead of discussing the topic (that would be #7)
• started out of the gate labeling a linked to, related to the OP teaching's teacher a heretic (#3)
• name calling (#6) - I don't know, does this apply? "I had no idea it was ok for Christians to deny what they say here and act like they sit on a throne and we all must bend the knee and kiss the ring" (posted by you about me).
  
  We've been told to 'grow up', that I'm 'immature' and 'passive aggressive', another poster was accused of taking 'flights of fancy' and then her username was insulted. You've in essence told people that if they want to speak on this forum, they better fall in line with what YOU believe or they should go elsewhere - start their own blog or forum - as if YOU are in control here! You accuse those of us TRYING to discuss and stay on topic of denigrating others and shutting discussion down - the VERY THING that YOU are doing!
  
  I have said that you've posted out of complete ignorance, but that's not a personal insult, it's saying that you've posted about someone based on what someone else posted about that person. That's not you knowing your stuff, that's you repeating someone else's stuff. You claim to have gone to the source (Andrew Farely), but then admit that you are taking material from someone else's evaluation based on very few, out of context, and in some cases, paraphrased excerpts from Farley. Ignorant means you just don't know, and that's okay. That's why I keep pointing you to the source, so that you can make an informed comment instead of just letting someone else do the work for you. You have taken the exhortation to do your own homework and turned it into a personal attack against you. That's not something I've done; it's all you.

Some of you here would like to silence folks they disagree with, like Ben, Joanie, UnderGrace, myself, and a few others. It's my opinion that instead of discussing the content of our posts/threads, they holler 'hyper grace!!!!!' in hopes that the mods will at least eliminate those threads and at most, the posters of those threads. If that doesn't work, they escalate, and they say, 'Gnosticism!!! Heresy!!!'

As Ben says, why not just 'come and reason'?

What was this thread about again?

Oh yeah . . . The discipline of God being something to prepare us for our future, not punish us for our past.


Shall we get back to it, please?

-JGIG

Let me get this straight......... YOU are bringing da rules down on her because of the hyper-grace issue when YOU were the one who brought Farley into this thread, advertising all his other writings, which are also against the Bible, plus derailing the thread, in the first place?

Did you forget all the rest of us who spoke against it as well?!?

Personally, I think you have a vendetta, a grudge against 7seasrekeyed.

IMO that's unchristianlike, unprofessional, and poor taste.

So maybe she got under your skin. I've done that, but you don't see everybody on the BDF climbing down my case, do you?

I strongly suggest you repent, & the old fashioned way at that.

I was always told if you can't stand the heat......... well, you know the rest.