Heresy on Christianchat

zone · Mar 4, 2013

i generally read everything, unless it's the same post over and over again.

Elizabeth619 · Mar 4, 2013

I disagree with many, and many disagree with me...yet many are respectful and know how to handle discussions without throwing darts.
Eternally grateful is one I dont agree with much, but I love that man! We can talk about anything and not get mad.

mark54 · Mar 4, 2013

Elizabeth619 said:

You have my sympathy. On another site i have been told the same thing
BUT as someone said to me
Christ suffered from the religious of his day, and warned his followers would suffer the same
He was speaking I am sure of the religious
God Bless

zone · Mar 4, 2013

Kefa52 said:

what is the truth?

and if people are actually sharing the Word and Truth will people not be closer to finding the way to be "fixed"?

some of the truths people share i thoroughly reject as untruth.
and isn't it that way for us all?

so what goes so wrong? no agreement on orthodoxy i reckon.
so, logically - there can be no agreement on what constitutes heresy.

another thing that tends to be given too much weight regarding 'truth' is the click LIKE button.
ppl click like for reasons known only to them.

PS · Mar 4, 2013

zone said:

Well, wasn't Paul wanting his own people to come to a knowledge of Jesus instead of rejecting him?

tdrew777 · Mar 4, 2013

We don't need a definition of orthodoxy/heresy that everyone can agree to in order to make the suggestions on this thread applicable. No one is going to take a vote - we never have before and no one is proposing one now! Whenever a group of us consider that an idea is not biblical, we always have, in the past, lined up to refute that idea. Sometimes more like sharks than like Christians. WE ARE the ones who make the call on orthodoxy/heresy. We have made it in the past and will continue to make it in the future. And here is my thread's bottom line: those of us who have some maturity in Christ, let's think through how we will deal with threads with ideas that a large group of us decide is not biblical, that are denying Jesus as Lord. We will.....1) and 2) are out there. Anyone care to post 3) and 4)?

mark54 · Mar 4, 2013

tdrew777 said:

It might be an idea to know whether hersey is defined as contradicting what the bible actually states, or contradicting the conclusions/belief systems men have put in place since it was written
Two different things

Ariel82 · Mar 4, 2013

cliff notes than?

3. ask questions to make sure you know their real position and its not just a miscommunication.

4. goal is to present God's truth not win an argument

5. Keep it brief and truthful

6. know when to disengage

7. use scripture

Ariel82 said:

1. I found that asking short precise questions that allow the person to clarify their meaning is best. Before you even think to rebuke or respond to a statement you must first truly understand the other person's stance.

That way they can not later tell you that they misrepresented what they think or say.

I also found that you will learn some posters just phrase it in an unusual way that is confusing but not meant in the way some people take it.

For example one poster posted "Adam and Eve are Gods"

on could assume they were are a heretic teaching mini-gods doctrine or ask clarification and learn they just forgot the ' and meant to type "God's"

2. the goal of any response should be to show God's truth.
not to get other's to agree that you are right because often they won't.
but if you plant that seed of truth perhaps it will undermine the stronghold of lies in their mind that keep them from the knowledge of Christ

3. keep it short, brief, truthful and polite (though I admit that sometimes i go for truthful over polite)

4. disengage when the other person starts repeating their faulty arguments

5. base your reasoning on scripture more than any outside source if possible

James 3

PS · Mar 4, 2013

tdrew777 said:

We don't need a definition of orthodoxy/heresy that everyone can agree to in order to make the suggestions on this thread applicable. No one is going to take a vote - we never have before and no one is proposing one now! Whenever a group of us consider that an idea is not biblical, we always have, in the past, lined up to refute that idea. Sometimes more like sharks than like Christians. WE ARE the ones who make the call on orthodoxy/heresy. We have made it in the past and will continue to make it in the future. And here is my thread's bottom line: those of us who have some maturity in Christ, let's think through how we will deal with threads with ideas that a large group of us decide is not biblical, that are denying Jesus as Lord. We will.....1) and 2) are out there. Anyone care to post 3) and 4)?

Suppose someone admits to following a heretic who was denounce by the early church and they go on to deny that Jesus is God despite scripture to the contrary, remaining unmoved the whole time?

zone · Mar 4, 2013

well, speaking for myself only...and them i'm off the thread: i'm not going to (figuratively) sign up for a majority decision on what constitutes heresy then agree to do a or b.

because i'm not convinced there's even an orthodox majority.

was there ever?

too many extra-biblical agendas and personality issues to do this, as far i can see.
it's the internet.

blessings, though.
if it is of God, it will stand.
later.....z

mark54 · Mar 4, 2013

tdrew777 said:

Could I make two points concenring the emboldened
I know of no one who has denied Jesus is Lord on this website(though I have not been here that long) so I am not sure that example applies at this time
Secondly, there are people who consider themselves mature Christians on this website who call others heretics for reasons ministers would not in the churches
So who judges/decides who are the mature Christians and that they have the right to call others heretics?

Ariel82 · Mar 4, 2013

its not guidelines on how to deal with heresy so much as rule for polite debate and fruitful discussion in general.

one of the sites suggestion is that if the thread bothers you, you can choose NOT to click on it.

oh 8. respect the ops purpose for starting a thread even if you disagree...say your piece than leave..

purpose thread:monitoring your OWN behavior.

not establishing what is orthodox and what is heresy, not choosing who is mature and who is not.

Ariel82 · Mar 4, 2013

wait I just caught that.... you mean kids aren't allowed in this discussion? just mature folks....

. ah man, Abiding I want a cookie.....

oh by the way Jimmy I've seen that look on people's faces when I tell them about CC, which is why I liked it

it made me smile.

PS · Mar 4, 2013

Ariel82 said:

its not guidelines on how to deal with heresy so much as rule for polite debate and fruitful discussion in general.

one of the sites suggestion is that if the thread bothers you, you can choose NOT to click on it.

oh 8. respect the ops purpose for starting a thread even if you disagree...say your piece than leave..

purpose thread:monitoring your OWN behavior.

not establishing what is orthodox and what is heresy, not choosing who is mature and who is not.

That would open the door to all sorts. Isn't it the Christians duty to defend the faith?

Ariel82 · Mar 4, 2013

tdrew777 said:

nope the site defines what they view as orthodoxy and heresy in this thread:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...t-vibrant-heated-discussions-please-read.html

1Christianwarrior316 · Mar 4, 2013

Elizabeth619 said:

I've been called many things here also....maybe we could start our own club on here and call it the "I'm Rubber You're Glue Club."

1Christianwarrior316

crossnote · Mar 4, 2013

This isn't Church (its a forum) and I'm not a heresy hunter. I find many crazy (IMHO) posts here on CC but theTruth of God's Word is greater.
I think many have 'protect the babes in Christ' syndrome and feel 'they' have to apply their heresy antidote whatever the cost.
God's Word is sufficient and powerful and through it His babes will hear His Voice even amongst the howl of the wolves.

mark54 · Mar 4, 2013

Skinski7 said:

This is because generally false doctrine and false teachers are not refuted in the Church System.

Have you ever heard a pastor quote this and elaborate on it?

Act 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Have you ever seen a pastor warning his flock everyday with tears about the wolves who appear as lambs?

The truth is people don't take deception seriously. They look at the Mormon's, Jehovah's Witnesses, Atheists, Moonies, Scientology etc. as the deceived one's. Few people seriously consider the warning of Paul.

The wolves are in the pulpits today and they "appear" as "Ministers of Righteousness."

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Transform - G3345 - metaschēmatizō
From G3326 and a derivative of G4976; to transfigure or disguise; figuratively to apply (by accommodation): - transfer, transform (self).

Right after Jesus taught that "strait is the gate and narrow is the way and that FEW will find it" Jesus warned about the wolves who would come, MULTITUDES of them.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Jesus taught that MANY would come in His (Jesus) name and say that He was the Christ and would deceive MANY.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Not deceive a few, deceive many. A multitude.

Jesus even taught how to identify them...

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Jesus taught you will know them by what they produce. They produce converts. What is the fruit within the Church System today? I see SIN SIN SIN. I see professing Christian's who argue in favour of perpetually sinning till death every single day. Professing Christian's who STILL WORK INIQUITY.

Jesus went on to say...

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Not a FEW but MANY. MANY MANY MANY. A multitude of people.

If one is to preach today that one MUST depart from iniquity one will be refuted with all manner of excuses. "you are saving yourself," "you are self-righteous," "you are saying we don't need Jesus," "it's not of works," "faith alone," "1Joh 1:8 teaches we cannot stop sinning," "Romans 7:14-28 teaches we will always be doing wrong," "Paul was the chief of sinners." All defending an ongoing state of sinfulness, all defending an ongoing state of working iniquity.

In Revelation chapters 2 and 3 there are seven churches listed. FIVE out of SEVEN had already been corrupted back then. That is MOST of the Churches John was writing to.

What is it today?

Don't be deceived folks. Paul warned abut what would happen...

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

In order to not be deceived one must LOVE the truth. If one is complacent about the truth they WILL BE DECEIVED. God Himself sends STRONG DELUSION.

Schucks Skinsky
No minister at the church of my youth had to preach any of the above to make people feel they couldn't be good enough for God. They did that without preaching on those verses. Iit was incessantly preached on the general theme of how good a life you had to live as a Christian.
Some left the church crushed, a few even ended up on the streets. I could tell by how someone was dressed when they first entered the church if they were likely to stay or not
What usually clinched it was if they were white, and middle class.

BTW

I never heard a sermon preached on the following either:

For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14

Strange, as that is the core of Gospel of Grace Paul preached

Maynard · Mar 4, 2013

As is clearly evident on this forum by the endless individual various interpretations and false teachings of scripture that individuals have absolutely no authority whatsoever to discern for themselves or anyone else the teachings of our Lord contained in sacred scripture. Only Christ's true Church possesses that authority, handed to it by our Lord Jesus himself.
I had never witnessed such a concentration of fragmented and splintered and utterly confused doctrines and false teachings as is demonstrated on this board on a daily basis. It is a terribly sad state of affairs, really, and only goes to show.

cfultz3 · Mar 4, 2013

Maynard said:

As is clearly evident on this forum by the endless individual various interpretations and false teachings of scripture that individuals have absolutely no authority whatsoever to discern for themselves or anyone else the teachings of our Lord contained in sacred scripture. Only Christ's true Church possesses that authority, handed to it by our Lord Jesus himself.
I had never witnessed such a concentration of fragmented and splintered and utterly confused doctrines and false teachings as is demonstrated on this board on a daily basis. It is a terribly sad state of affairs, really, and only goes to show.

the Catholic Church?

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