Homosexual "christians"

[Skinski7]

and your answer to this.
said who, when did you get saved, for being holy and perfect. by following the full law before or after believing.

"Following the full law"??? What law are you talking about?

Salvation is a result of godly sorrow working repentance, the change of mind whereby our rebellion to God ceases. This leaves us in a state where we are obedient to God from our heart. In other words we find ourselves submitted to God inwardly having purged the iniquity within through repentance.

It is THEN that God fills our purified vessel with the Holy Spirit and raises us up to newness of life. That is the moment of salvation. Repentance and conversion is not salvation, it is simply the conditions necessary for salvation as God does not save a rebel.

We don't get saved for being holy and perfect, we get saved purely by the mercy of God by the power of His grace via the washing of regeneration. God will not do that to anyone unless they repent first and forsake their sins. If they are stealing, lying, cheating, fornicating, molesting children, raping, murdering, lusting, or whatever wrongdoing they have to stop it.

The means to stop it is via a broken and contrite spirit. We have to be broken on the rock of Christ. It is like a wild horse which is self willed must be broken in by the horse trainer. When the horse is broken it submits willingly to a rider, before that it will buck the rider off. Likewise we have to submit to God BEFORE He will save us.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

We cannot receive the engrafted word unless we first lay apart ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness.

Most modern Christian's refuse to lay aside their sin and want a salvation in which they don't have to. They are self deceived because they are not DOERS of the word.

 

[royalscot]

It distresses me to see folks that don't understand judging. The judgement we are not to make is one's eternal destiny. That judgement is for Christ, and Christ alone. If we don't judge we will never be able to tell if someone is right or wrong. Of course we are to judge. How else can we offer support, correction, and aid to a brother that has slipped or fallen, unless we first ascertain they have failed?

1 Corinthians 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

it a distress that one cant see, what god has forgave/saved them form. yet some how pick up(again) the old pharesee pointing stick and say this is under a old covenant. when the new covenant ,clear as cristal said
that would be to all
For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ
when did this appoint us judge , when you recieved forgivness or being saved by a saviour.

1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye?5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
6 "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
it is also wrote
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
for example.

do you drive a car, go to the doctor, how has the world changed from the time of jesus walked on earth.

20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

justified by his grace as a gift,

 

[Skinski7]

Here is what Tertullian wrote...

This is the “purging of men's minds, that whatever defilement habitual error had imparted, whatever contamination in the heart of man ignorance had engendered, that repentance should sweep and scrape away, and cast out of doors, and thus prepare the home of the heart, by making it clean, for the Holy Spirit, who was about to indwell, that He might with pleasure introduce Himself there-into” – A.D. 160


​

Preach that today and you are cursed by most religious people.

​

 

[Brainfreeze]

Yes homosexuality is a sin, it's the opposite of life, it's self pleasure, sexual acts in vain
but to put a thief and a molester in the same boat is quite a stretch ...
Help with correction not judgment ..

 

[royalscot]

"Following the full law"??? What law are you talking about?

Salvation is a result of godly sorrow working repentance, the change of mind whereby our rebellion to God ceases. This leaves us in a state where we are obedient to God from our heart. In other words we find ourselves submitted to God inwardly having purged the iniquity within through repentance.

It is THEN that God fills our purified vessel with the Holy Spirit and raises us up to newness of life. That is the moment of salvation. Repentance and conversion is not salvation, it is simply the conditions necessary for salvation as God does not save a rebel.

We don't get saved for being holy and perfect, we get saved purely by the mercy of God by the power of His grace via the washing of regeneration. God will not do that to anyone unless they repent first and forsake their sins. If they are stealing, lying, cheating, fornicating, molesting children, raping, murdering, lusting, or whatever wrongdoing they have to stop it.

The means to stop it is via a broken and contrite spirit. We have to be broken on the rock of Christ. It is like a wild horse which is self willed must be broken in by the horse trainer. When the horse is broken it submits willingly to a rider, before that it will buck the rider off. Likewise we have to submit to God BEFORE He will save us.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

We cannot receive the engrafted word unless we first lay apart ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness.

Most modern Christian's refuse to lay aside their sin and want a salvation in which they don't have to. They are self deceived because they are not DOERS of the word.

when was the law of moses given to a gentile.
repent from what law. 70 ad no temple of stone. and the requirement of this law it needed temple. of stone.
acts 15, was a gentile given full law.
go back and read your own religions taboos and dogma. and come back with law we cn repent of the gentiles


if all full short, then this would include everyone except jesus. saved by a gift
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?4 Did you suffer so many things in vain---if indeed it was in vain?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
9 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

 

[Skinski7]

Redemption that is in Christ is abiding in the Spirit of His life.

One cannot be in rebellion to God and abiding in Christ at the same time. Yet people believe they can serve two masters and teach that they can willfully choose to do evil occasionally and somehow they believe that the blood of Christ cloaks that, thus they think they have a license to sin.

yet the Bible warns against such a notion where it says...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

No-one can be cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ and go on sinning because if they do they are treating the blood with contempt as if it couldn't really clean them. Anyone who keeps on sinning after being cleansed is under condemnation. They are mocking Christ.

Yet the problem today is that people don't even get cleansed in the first place because they never approach God with a true heart, coming clean with God, having turned from darkness to walk in the light, whereby they can be truly cleansed of their unrighteousness. That doesn't happen because repentance has been redefined to be a "confession of sinfulness" not a "sweeping, scraping, casting out of doors the iniquity in the hard whereby the heart is prepared for regeneration."

Satan is very devious and has attacked the very foundations of Christianity by redefining the terms. Thus people can still preach "Jesus" and "grace, faith, repentance, righteousness, born again, salvation, the cross," and all those things but preach another religion entirely because the terms have been redefined.

Due to the deception being popular there is strength in numbers and therefore the very few who speak against it can be labelled as whackos, nuts, Pharisees, self righteous or whatever name one likes to pick.

Yet all we are telling people is that they have to actually forsake their sin through a genuine repentance and yield themselves to God. That is not an evil thing to do, it is the right thing to do and it MUST be done.

Our hearts MUST be purified. We cannot be Christian's and still serving Satan. Serving sin must stop. The sin must stop.

 

[Skinski7]

when was the law of moses given to a gentile.
repent from what law. 70 ad no temple of stone. and the requirement of this law it needed temple. of stone.
acts 15, was a gentile given full law.
go back and read your own religions taboos and dogma. and come back with law we cn repent of the gentiles


if all full short, then this would include everyone except jesus. saved by a gift
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?4 Did you suffer so many things in vain---if indeed it was in vain?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
9 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

How on earth can you equate me with someone who tells people that they have to keep the Mosaic law to be saved?

People like you just invent a strawman and actually ignore what I actually say.

We have to keep the law of LOVE. Love fulfills the law because love works no ill. If we walk after the Spirit we are not under the law because we don't need the law because the spirit of the law abides in our hearts.

The Galatians were going back to circumcision. Where do I tell people to get physically circumcised?

See how deceived you are. You are looking for ANY out in regards to what I say and therefore stretch the error of the Galatian church and apply it to me as if I am telling people they have to keep the rites and rituals of the law.

I am saying we have to forsake sin. Paul was not critical of the Galatians for teaching the sin has to stop, he was critical that instead of focusing on a faith that works by love whereby we yielded to the grace of God and do the right thing from the heart, they were looking to the Old Covenant law for their salvation.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[royalscot]

How on earth can you equate me with someone who tells people that they have to keep the Mosaic law to be saved?

People like you just invent a strawman and actually ignore what I actually say.

We have to keep the law of LOVE. Love fulfills the law because love works no ill. If we walk after the Spirit we are not under the law because we don't need the law because the spirit of the law abides in our hearts.

The Galatians were going back to circumcision. Where do I tell people to get physically circumcised?

See how deceived you are. You are looking for ANY out in regards to what I say and therefore stretch the error of the Galatian church and apply it to me as if I am telling people they have to keep the rites and rituals of the law.

I am saying we have to forsake sin. Paul was not critical of the Galatians for teaching the sin has to stop, he was critical that instead of focusing on a faith that works by love whereby we yielded to the grace of God and do the right thing from the heart, they were looking to the Old Covenant law for their salvation.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

how dose your answer fit in to what i asked phil.

Originally Posted by phil112

You cannot embrace sin and debauchery and be a christian. If you sin daily and refuse to stop, you aren't a christian. A christian has the mind of Christ, follows His directives, and kills the old man daily. It doesn't matter how you put it, what source you quote, and which relative of yours falls into that category.

You cannot sin and go to heaven. All sin must be forgiven before you die. No sin is allowed in heaven. I am thankful that I have the word of God to guide me, that I don't have to be part of some fleshly organized religion, to count on for salvation.
"Yea, let God be true, tho every man a liar".

God's word is what I am interested in, and that alone. These people, just like islam, are giving christianity a bad name. I don't claim to be a christian. If I am, you won't need to be told. My walk is what God will judge me by, and that is where I focus my effort.
I am willing to believe if you have to tell someone you're christian for them to know, you may not be one.

First gay Catholic congress to press pope for change

"catholic authorities".....I scoff with derision. The only true authority is God, and His approval is the only one I seek.



said who, when did you get saved, for being holy and perfect. by following the full law before or after believing.
The Righteousness of God Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it---22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

who appointed us judge. to what others do. when grace as a gift, never came throught,our laws and actions.










then tell me, can a straw man read. because i told you nothing. act 15, and act 10, and gal 3 and ad 70 told you something.
ad48 told you something else.
what law am i to repent of. ?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Think about this for a moment.
1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Here we have John discussing two different kinds of sin.

1. Sin Unto Death
2. Sin Not Unto Death

John states that he does not say to pray for a sin unto death.

John also states that whosoever is born of God does not sin.

I would put it to you that..

1. Sin Unto Death = Rebellion = Willful Sin
2. Sin Not Unto Death = Sin of Ignorance = Wrong Doing Without Rebellion

Why would I conclude that? Well due to this...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1. Sin Unto Death = Disobedience Unto Unrighteousness
2. Obedience Unto Righteousness

Paul doesn't say obedience is righteousness but that it leads to righteousness. Also we have...

1. Obedience Unto Righteousness (Rom 6:16)
2. Righteousness Unto Holiness (Rom 6:19)
3. Holiness Unto Everlasting Life (Rom 6:22)

Steps 1,2 and 3 being the Sanctification process. This aligns with...

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Heb 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

So with all that in mind when John is speaking of a "sin not unto death" he is not speaking of rebellion but a sin of ignorance, a sin where the brother needs correction that righteousness may increase.

Sin unto death on the other hand is simply disobedience to God. Sin unto death is rebellion and that kills an individual instantly, not physically but spiritually. Rebellion is a choice, an act of free agency, therefore we are not to pray for it because God does not force Himself upon anyone, He merely compels them through conviction.

Thus a "brother" cannot be engaged in homosexuality or any other willful sin and truly be a "brother." Such a person needs to be confronted about their sin and told in no uncertain terms that they need to do their first works and repent, only then is it possible to obey unto righteousness, righteousness unto holiness, the end of which is everlasting life, the gift of God is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ.

I hope that makes sense.

I agree with that conclusion i added color to for emphasis. I have some slight afjustment to offer as to how you got to that.

First I noted "1. Sin Unto Death = Rebellion = Willful Sin
2. Sin Not Unto Death = Sin of Ignorance = Wrong Doing Without Rebellion"

Sin not unto death is rebellion let's say on a scale of 1-10 in any case. Ignorance is no excuse, as the Law makes all sin more sinful. It is vital for a person to discover his ignorance and correct it. The nature of the Law shows that many things people do wrong as at least contrary to nature, the next step being "unseemly". If you ask that person whether they sense that should not be done, if honest they will admit "Yeah, I probably shouldn't do that." The smarter one will go on to say "Where is that written?" On the lower end of the scale it might take nearly a lifetime for sufficient conviction to persuade. On the high end much convicition from the Word can effect a quick repeantance.

"Sin unto death", that phrase, appears in
Romans 6:16 (KJV) [SUP]16 [/SUP] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

We agree about on obedience unto righteousness.

A sin unto death that we ought not pray about is as far as I can determine the one sin Jesus warned about. Once done from the heart it is a sentence of eternal death without hope of repentance or salvation. Matthew 12:31-32 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


No sin of the flesh, such as sexual deviancy, is beyond our prayer and ministry effort, or repentance and salvation of the guilty. However, some of those sins remain classified as abominations before God, exposing a sinner to an early physical death, hopefully after full repentance of besetting sins has removed all question of eternal judgment. While sinners are not stoned (in America anyway), other consequences can flood in to rob life. The most likely to suffer are those spoken of here:
Romans 1:18 (KJV) [SUP]18 [/SUP] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

That would include anyone knowing sins identified in the Word. Regardless of doctrines, wrath awaits. That speaks of sin unto death, both in this life and the next.

The other occurrence: Adding more context...
1 John 5:16-21 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

That "sin unto death" is not elsewhere expanded upon as being ineligible for prayer or forgiveneess in this life or the next. It can only be that sin Jesus spoke about. However, much is said in scripture about all sin leading to unrightesouness and death, though all other sins being eligible for forgiveness upon repentance.

So I come to the same conclusion "thus a brother..." with ease.

I think there's a lot of confusion yet about grace clouding all this. Grace isn't a power we carry about. It is the attitude of God towards people that hear and obey Him. Noah found it. How? He listened believing those words and obeyed, finding grace in the eyes of God. because of it. Becasuse of that grace Noah and family were saved from the deluge. That same grace is for today. Grace opens our eyes to God's word preached. Upon believing and obeying those words the hearer gains faith to believe in Christ unto salvation. That grace of God then applies mercy by faith, not works alone. The grace is still in the eyes of God so to speak. It is His allowance for us under the New Covenant. Anyone wherever who hears, believes, and obeys his commandment so far received shall be saved. Continuing on in abominations while knowing what God says about it strongly indicates that is not a person born again. In that case there couldn't have been any grace found in His eyes at any point along the way. There won't be any grace offered until repentance is real, a result of being born again, a result of believing from the innermost "heart", resulting from conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit, resulting from hearing the word of God preached. Benefitting from grace of God is very conditional. It is not cheap, considering the cost on that cross. It is not a scheme licensing habitual sin God hates.

 

[royalscot]

I agree with that conclusion i added color to for emphasis. I have some slight afjustment to offer as to how you got to that.

First I noted "1. Sin Unto Death = Rebellion = Willful Sin
2. Sin Not Unto Death = Sin of Ignorance = Wrong Doing Without Rebellion"

Sin not unto death is rebellion let's say on a scale of 1-10 in any case. Ignorance is no excuse, as the Law makes all sin more sinful. It is vital for a person to discover his ignorance and correct it. The nature of the Law shows that many things people do wrong as at least contrary to nature, the next step being "unseemly". If you ask that person whether they sense that should not be done, if honest they will admit "Yeah, I probably shouldn't do that." The smarter one will go on to say "Where is that written?" On the lower end of the scale it might take nearly a lifetime for sufficient conviction to persuade. On the high end much convicition from the Word can effect a quick repeantance.

"Sin unto death", that phrase, appears in
Romans 6:16 (KJV) [SUP]16 [/SUP] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

We agree about on obedience unto righteousness.

A sin unto death that we ought not pray about is as far as I can determine the one sin Jesus warned about. Once done from the heart it is a sentence of eternal death without hope of repentance or salvation. Matthew 12:31-32 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


No sin of the flesh, such as sexual deviancy, is beyond our prayer and ministry effort, or repentance and salvation of the guilty. However, some of those sins remain classified as abominations before God, exposing a sinner to an early physical death, hopefully after full repentance of besetting sins has removed all question of eternal judgment. While sinners are not stoned (in America anyway), other consequences can flood in to rob life. The most likely to suffer are those spoken of here:
Romans 1:18 (KJV) [SUP]18 [/SUP] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

That would include anyone knowing sins identified in the Word. Regardless of doctrines, wrath awaits. That speaks of sin unto death, both in this life and the next.

The other occurrence: Adding more context...
1 John 5:16-21 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

That "sin unto death" is not elsewhere expanded upon as being ineligible for prayer or forgiveneess in this life or the next. It can only be that sin Jesus spoke about. However, much is said in scripture about all sin leading to unrightesouness and death, though all other sins being eligible for forgiveness upon repentance.

So I come to the same conclusion "thus a brother..." with ease.

I think there's a lot of confusion yet about grace clouding all this. Grace isn't a power we carry about. It is the attitude of God towards people that hear and obey Him. Noah found it. How? He listened believing those words and obeyed, finding grace in the eyes of God. because of it. Becasuse of that grace Noah and family were saved from the deluge. That same grace is for today. Grace opens our eyes to God's word preached. Upon believing and obeying those words the hearer gains faith to believe in Christ unto salvation. That grace of God then applies mercy by faith, not works alone. The grace is still in the eyes of God so to speak. It is His allowance for us under the New Covenant. Anyone wherever who hears, believes, and obeys his commandment so far received shall be saved. Continuing on in abominations while knowing what God says about it strongly indicates that is not a person born again. In that case there couldn't have been any grace found in His eyes at any point along the way. There won't be any grace offered until repentance is real, a result of being born again, a result of believing from the innermost "heart", resulting from conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit, resulting from hearing the word of God preached. Benefitting from grace of God is very conditional. It is not cheap, considering the cost on that cross. It is not a scheme licensing habitual sin God hates.

Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?4 Did you suffer so many things in vain---if indeed it was in vain?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?


when did law save you. ( do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.)
he is in heaven, hes been raised from the dead. death has been conquered.
when did law introduce you, to god, or take away your sin.(no one comes to the Father except through me)

29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!3John 1
6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3

18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.7 John 14:


paul said (new covenant etc gal)
1 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?4 Did you suffer so many things in vain---if indeed it was in vain?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?





The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."12 But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them."13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us---for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"---14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

 

[wattie]

wattie, you better start making better choices, and you better do it soon. That is a choice you are making. It is your mind and you alone control it. That is the one thing that no man can take away from you - your thoughts. Think better things if you want to go to heaven.

Point one: I wasn't referring to myself in particular with this sin- but generally speaking of any christian men who engage in looking at internet porn. So could you direct this in the more general sense?

Point two: What do you mean by think better things to get to heaven? A place in heaven is given by Jesus Christ when He gives eternal salvation. Unearned unmerited unfavoured. So I won't be 'getting' to heaven.. a place in heaven is given me.

It is true that it is my mind and I can control it.. so that is giving it over to Jesus to take charge. Not under my own strength.

All fleeing from this kind of sin does not come about thru self-reliance.. but reliance on Jesus.

 

[Kerry]

The title of this thread is crazy as you cannot be true Christian and be homosexual. It does not compute.

 

[ThomistColin]

The title of this thread is crazy as you cannot be true Christian and be homosexual. It does not compute.

Again, here is the problem. Too often ignored and it is being caused by Satan through confusion.

DEFINE HOMOSEXUAL!

I have been told by the world and many Christians that I am homosexual because I am only attracted to men. Christians tell me I cannot go to Heaven and be homosexual.

I have been told by other Christians that I am not a homosexual because I am celibate. They say I can go to Heaven.

I have been told by other Christians that I am still a homosexual because being celibate means that I'm still attracted to men, and therefore until Jesus waves his magic wand and heals me, I cannot go to Heaven.

(BY THE WAY BECAUSE I KNOW SOMEONE IS GOING TO SAY IT: YES, I BELIEVE HOMOSEXUAL SEX IS SIN! I'm trying to keep this post short so people will ACTUALLY READ IT)

So, guess what ladies and gentlemen, YOU HAVE MADE THE WORD MEANINGLESS! You played the game of semantics and are making Satan proud. So before we make these threads and listen to the mind numbing "GAYS CAN'T BE CHRISTIANS" and "THATS NOT WHAT GAY MEANS" and "WELL THEY CAN BE CHRISTIANS ONLY IF THEY STOP".... DEFINE THE WORD. It doesn't matter if you agree with the definition or not, AT LEAST EVERYONE WILL KNOW WHAT THE HECK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT!

 

[phil112]

The title of this thread is crazy as you cannot be true Christian and be homosexual. It does not compute.

Try reading the first post and you won't be quite so ignorant about the title.

Again, here is the problem. Too often ignored and it is being caused by Satan through confusion.

DEFINE HOMOSEXUAL!

I have been told by the world and many Christians that I am homosexual because I am only attracted to men. Christians tell me I cannot go to Heaven and be homosexual.

I have been told by other Christians that I am not a homosexual because I am celibate. They say I can go to Heaven.........................

Apparently you don't understand what the word homosexual means, which is not surprising seeing as it has been twisted and perverted to try to make it benign so much. It isn't referring to simply the lust, as the dictionary strickly defines, but the act of participating in such perversion. Being homosexual without engaging in it physically is no more of a sin than being heterosexual and not engaging it.
Lust after a man or a woman is a sin. That is something you cannot entertain nor dwell on. When you do that, now you've sinned. Now you have committed fornication.
The lust a man has for a man is no more intense than that a man has for a woman. They both can and must be dealt with to prevent them from killing you.

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

I had a problem with lust towards women for most of my life, but God delivered me from that. Once I made the total committment to Him, He gave me relief. I didn't think I was ever going to be able to stop sinning, and one day I realized that He meant what He said. "Go and sin no more."
It can be done and once I fully believed, once I fully humbled myself, He became my strength. You are merely trying to justify your reprobate mind. You can do it, but you have to decide to put it all in His hands. You have to stop making excuses and do it.

 

[4enlightment]

Along time ago, people had believed that people that suffered from some sort of disability were considered as sinners or the results from their parents sins. But now we accept the Disable. It isn't God intentions to have the Disable to remain in that condition, but He is hoping that our faith in Him grows strong enough to believe that He is able to heal those that are disable. But now our faith remains weak and that is why we has people in all sort of conditions that has not God intended for them to be. So we must accept everyone and everything as the way they are because of our lack of faith.

One thing that I does know is that if someone that is strong in faith marries someone that is strong in faith as well, they only can produce a child and that child will become strong in faith as they are; but it will remain the same in that area, but not in other areas; and so what good can produce from that? Even the Tax-collectors love those that loves them, but what good can produce from that? God want the strong in faith to help the ones that are weak to become strong and which that produces results. But by keeping the strong from the weak doesn't produces nothing and which God want us to be fruitful and multiply it as well; and this is what scriptures has meant about men loving men, but not of the physical nature, but of the spiritual nature.

For Disability Awareness Sunday[/h]Disability Awareness Sunday is an invitation and opportunity for RCA congregations to celebrate the presence and gifts of persons with disabilities in their midst and to imagine new and innovative ministry that engages persons with disabilities. October 12 has been designated as RCA Disability Awareness Sunday for 2014, but any Sunday during the year is appropriate for a disability focus. https://www.rca.org/disability

 

[ThomistColin]

Try reading the first post and you won't be quite so ignorant about the title.

Apparently you don't understand what the word homosexual means, which is not surprising seeing as it has been twisted and perverted to try to make it benign so much. It isn't referring to simply the lust, as the dictionary strickly defines, but the act of participating in such perversion. Being homosexual without engaging in it physically is no more of a sin than being heterosexual and not engaging it.
Lust after a man or a woman is a sin. That is something you cannot entertain nor dwell on. When you do that, now you've sinned. Now you have committed fornication.
The lust a man has for a man is no more intense than that a man has for a woman. They both can and must be dealt with to prevent them from killing you. I had a problem with lust towards women for most of my life, but God delivered me from that. Once I made the total committment to Him, He gave me relief. I didn't think I was ever going to be able to stop sinning, and one day I realized that He meant what He said. "Go and sin no more."
It can be done and once I fully believed, once I fully humbled myself, He became my strength. You are merely trying to justify your reprobate mind. You can do it, but you have to decide to put it all in His hands. You have to stop making excuses and do it.

Oh I fully agree. Phil112, the Lord has released me of much of my lust. I slip from time to time, but those are when I act according to my old self. Its my fault when I do it. Though I am thankful it happens very rarely. Honestly, celibacy is far easier than people make it seem and I can only thank God for that.

 

[Agricola]

How many Christians condeming homosexual Christians to hell are still enjoing sinful lifestyles themselves? Some sin is a life time struggle to overcome, serious addictions are difficult to break, it is bad enough to break these without having the law and society saying there is nothing wrong with the sin and what is being done is natural and that people are just born like that.

Our job is to bring people to know Christ, then it is up to that person how they continue. It will be the Holy Spirit to show the beleiver their ways are wrong and to transform them, as I said before some peoples sin takes a life time to overcome and is a constant battle in thier walk with Christ, therefore how is it any different from a homosexual who knows Jesus as thier saviour and is commited to following Jesus battling to come to terms with homosexuality, especially if they have had a partner for many years.

Homosexuals are not sub-humans so quit talking about them and treating them as if they were.

 

[phil112]

How many Christians condeming homosexual Christians to hell are still enjoing sinful lifestyles themselves? Some sin is a life time struggle to overcome, serious addictions are difficult to break, it is bad enough to break these without having the law and society saying there is nothing wrong with the sin and what is being done is natural and that people are just born like that.

Our job is to bring people to know Christ, then it is up to that person how they continue. It will be the Holy Spirit to show the beleiver their ways are wrong and to transform them, as I said before some peoples sin takes a life time to overcome and is a constant battle in thier walk with Christ, therefore how is it any different from a homosexual who knows Jesus as thier saviour and is commited to following Jesus battling to come to terms with homosexuality, especially if they have had a partner for many years.

Homosexuals are not sub-humans so quit talking about them and treating them as if they were.

Where did that come from? Are you referencing me with that remark?

 

[phil112]

Along time ago, people had believed that people that suffered from some sort of disability were considered as sinners or the results from their parents sins. But now we accept the Disable. It isn't God intentions to have the Disable to remain in that condition, but He is hoping that our faith in Him grows strong enough to believe that He is able to heal those that are disable. But now our faith remains weak and that is why we has people in all sort of conditions that has not God intended for them to be. So we must accept everyone and everything as the way they are because of our lack of faith.

One thing that I does know is that if someone that is strong in faith marries someone that is strong in faith as well, they only can produce a child and that child will become strong in faith as they are; but it will remain the same in that area, but not in other areas; and so what good can produce from that? Even the Tax-collectors love those that loves them, but what good can produce from that? God want the strong in faith to help the ones that are weak to become strong and which that produces results. But by keeping the strong from the weak doesn't produces nothing and which God want us to be fruitful and multiply it as well; and this is what scriptures has meant about men loving men, but not of the physical nature, but of the spiritual nature.

For Disability Awareness Sunday[/h]Disability Awareness Sunday is an invitation and opportunity for RCA congregations to celebrate the presence and gifts of persons with disabilities in their midst and to imagine new and innovative ministry that engages persons with disabilities. October 12 has been designated as RCA Disability Awareness Sunday for 2014, but any Sunday during the year is appropriate for a disability focus. https://www.rca.org/disability

What exactly, does that have to do with making a choice to sin?

 

[4enlightment]

What exactly, does that have to do with making a choice to sin?

I doesn't believe that it is their choice to have the desires for the same sex, but an imbalance. Some babies are born with a male and a female genitals, but it isn't their choice to have both. God had made man to have a penis as He has made woman to have a vagina, but it is a choice for someone to cut them off. So it is of the devil himself that had distorted God creations by plaguing them with diseases like blindness, cripple, and so on...