How can God justify the ungodly and still maintain His integrity to His law?

[Dan58]

Yes, and that was symbolic. Paul states, "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins" (Heb 10:4)

This, therefore, doesn't explain how Christ legally saved us in Himself and yet satisfied His law that condemns us.

Transgression of the law requires death, so when you die for your sins, that's justice, but when Jesus died for our sins, that's propitiation (Romans 3:25). No man or animal could die for the sins of another, the law could only be satisfied via divine intervention. "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us" (Galatians 3:13). If you and I both murdered someone, you could not die for the murder I committed because you were guilty yourself, it would be like cleaning dirt with dirt. But as Isaiah 53 makes abundantly clear, only God could answer the curse of the law by taking our transgressions upon himself, offering to suffer and die for a world condemned to death.. The law is legally satisfied because through faith, believers are dead to sin in Christ. Our sins are against God, so only God himself could atoned for sin. We are made alive in Christ who died in our stead. That's the beauty of Christianity, no other religion has a Savior, they must earn their way into paradise. But our accuser was made powerless, defeated at Calvary for all eternity.. Score; God 1 - Satan Zip.

 

[onlinebuddy]

The Sin of the whole world was laid on Jesus, Jesus was separated from God on our account, God couldn't look on Jesus because, for the purpose of atonement, he became sin who knew no sin, somehow, some where, God saw the travail (spl?) of Jesus soul and was eternally satisfied, Sin was judged, debt paid.

That's a metaphor that explains a truth. Sins aren't objects to be laid on someone. Again, that doesn't answer the question.

Surely, it is as much a metaphor as 'sins being washed away,' since sins are not physical stains. We all understand that!
So what point are you trying to make?

Without metaphors we will never understand the truth. Since you have been asking so many questions, would you like to throw some light on the truth, without metaphors?

When the Bible says that our sins were laid on Jesus, who is the atoning sacrifice, that's enough!!!!
We need forgiveness, not mere technical answers!!!! Time is short!

If you were drowning, and someone throws you a rope, would you question the technicalities or would you first grab the rope?

 

[Utah]

Jesus is God....He cannot die. He is immortal. "Only God hath immortality". God isn't the one who sinned...we are the sinners. No law can condemn a innocent man instead of the guilty. No law, not even God's law. Again, how did Christ legally save us from the justice of His law. No one has answered the question, yet.

Your question has been answered several times. God walked the Earth; we know Him as Jesus; as God walked the Earth, He emptied Himself of His divinity; His body was crucified on the Cross and He died; He rose three days later. I'm beginning to think you're not here to learn but rather spew an agenda contrary to the Gospel. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Utah]

That's a metaphor that explains a truth. Sins aren't objects to be laid on someone. Again, that doesn't answer the question.

Its not a metaphor, its tangible. Sin manifests itself into death. Jesus died for us so that when our bodies give way, our spirit lives on. And when we live on with Jesus, there will be no more sin, thus there will be no more death.

 

[Utah]

By being the atonement for sin on our behalf.The lamb of GOD(perfect lamb)that took away the sins of the world and his sacrifice was accepted now under Grace for those that believe in the WORD of GOD,when GOD looks at us he sees the blood of JESUS.

I see Roberth responded to your post stating that this is all metaphorical. Last I heard, God accepting Jesus' sacrifice is not metaphorical, but glorious reality. I'm beginning to think this thread is a metaphorical game of trying to place a square peg into a round hole.

 

[passing_through]

That's a metaphor that explains a truth. Sins aren't objects to be laid on someone. Again, that doesn't answer the question.

Is this a metaphor.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."—Isaiah 53:6.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But the law condemns sinners. It demands their death. Christ wasn't a sinner, so how could His death satisfy the broken law?

It was the nature of the blood covenant that Jesus made with Israel. In blood covenants, everything that one party has becomes the other's, and vice versa. They essentially become one. He took our sin and paid the price for it, and we take his life and righteousness. Everyone who believes in Christ enters into that covenant.

 

[onlinebuddy]

laymen,

The gospel is not what "we" do....That is legalism. The gospel is what Christ did 2000 years ago. The gospel is the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ as the Son of Man.

laymen

I have no problem in considering you a learned man or a scholar.
Well then Sir, please give us the answers to all the questions that you have quizzed us with!

 

[onlinebuddy]

Is this a metaphor.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."—Isaiah 53:6.

Dear OP, this is actually a Simile. Notice the comparison between us and sheep- "like sheep."
But what's the point you are making?

 

[onlinebuddy]

That's a metaphor that explains a truth. Sins aren't objects to be laid on someone. Again, that doesn't answer the question.

Its not a metaphor, its tangible. Sin manifests itself into death. Jesus died for us so that when our bodies give way, our spirit lives on. And when we live on with Jesus, there will be no more sin, thus there will be no more death.

I agree with Utah.
The manifestations of sin are tangible.

So dear OP,
it's not a metaphor, although metaphors help.

It would have been a metaphor if someone used another word instead of sin.
For eg:
Our burdens were laid on Jesus.
Our darkness was laid on Jesus.
Our disease was laid on Jesus.
In the a/m examples, the words "burdens", "darkness", "disease" are metaphorically used for sin.
Metaphors can sometimes be misunderstood and misinterpreted.

Therefore, when someone says that "our sins were laid on Jesus," that quite a clear concept.

When the Bible says that Jesus "bore our sins" it simply means that he bore our sins. Period!

 

[onlinebuddy]

No, absolutely not....That's not the gospel. Our death in Christ occurred over 2000 years ago when He, as the Son of Man, died on the cross. Therefore all men have been justified unto life in the doing and dying of Christ (see Rom 5:18), but yet not all men will receive this truth (the gospel). For those who reject the gospel they remain under law. In the judgment the law will condemn the unbeliever to eternal damnation (goodbye to life forever).

Our death in Christ occurred over 2000 years ago

Bible verse please

Therefore all men have been justified unto life

[/QUOTE]Bible verse please
What is the meaning of the word, "justified"

For those who reject the gospel they remain under law

Bible verse please

In the judgment the law will condemn the unbeliever

Bible verse please

 

[onlinebuddy]

Okay, I like where you are going, only your verb tenses are incorrect. The Bible says it like this:

"our old self was crucified with him" Rom 6:6 " One died for all, then all died" 2 Cor 5:14

Notice that our old self was (past tense) crucified with Christ. Also notice that when One died, all died in Him.

As to being raised with Him, notice the following:

Eph 2:5....even when we were dead in our transgressions (sinners), (God) made us alive together with Christ, by grace you have been saved, 6 and raised us up with Him (past tense), and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus


Col 1:13 For He (God the Father) rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins....


According to Paul our new life (our glorified, sinless life) has already been transferred to heaven "in Christ"!

The law demands justice, not compassion. Here's Paul:

Gal 3:10 ... "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM"

If you fail, in one point, the law curses you by placing you in death row awaiting the judgment. The law is not a friend to the sinner.

Here's what Paul says of the law: "the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones" 2 cor 3:7

I see nothing wrong with the verb tense used by posthuman

"our old self was crucified with him" Rom 6:6

When was our old self crucified? 2000 years ago.... or in our lifetimes, when we believed and repented ?

when did God make us alive? When were we saved? 2000 years ago.... or in our lifetimes, when we believed and repented?

According to Paul our new life (our glorified, sinless life) has already been transferred to heaven "in Christ"!

How?
Are we glorified? Are we sinless?

 

[onlinebuddy]

Answer: Gal 4: 4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeemthose who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Christ came to save or redeem sinners from under His law that justly condemns them to eternal damnation. We are told the curse of the law is the 2nd death, i.e., the lake of fire.

Most Christians say Christ came to save us from hell, but this is backwards. Christ came to save sinners, who have transgressed His law, from the curse of the law or its penalty, i.e., hell (the lake of fire).

Roberth, Were you under the Law before you believed in Christ?

Let me rephrase my question:
If a person has not received the gospel, in this 21st century, is he still under the Law? Kindly support your answer with a Bible verse.

Also,
Whom was the Law given to? Jews or gentiles or the entire mankind?

 

[Roberth]

The law did not condemn Christ, nor did "God condemn Christ" as you say. Rather, God's law demands punishment (death) for sin. ....God "provided himself a lamb" (Gen. 22:8).

If you aren't speeding and a policemen gives you a ticket anyway then the law that the policemen enforces becomes a joke. The law can only condemn the guilty....It cannot ethically condemn the innocent.

 

[Utah]

If you aren't speeding and a policemen gives you a ticket anyway then the law that the policemen enforces becomes a joke. The law can only condemn the guilty....It cannot ethically condemn the innocent.

When someone is given a ticket for not breaking the law, that's not enforcing the law, that's corruption. On another note, when a teenager speeds and is given a ticket, and the teenager doesn't have enough money to pay the fine, a parent often steps in and pays the fine for their child and the debt is settled. That's what Jesus did for us.

 

[Roberth]

So what point are you trying to make?

I would like all to have the opportunity to answer.

When the Bible says that our sins were laid on Jesus, who is the atoning sacrifice, that's enough!!!! We need forgiveness, not mere technical answers!!!!

Paul doesn't think "that's enough" for he explains the gospel is clear, unbiased terms.

I will agree it's enough for the sinner to come to Christ, but at some point he/she needs to understand the gospel, the object of their faith.

 

[Roberth]

Your question has been answered several times.

No, it has not been answered.

I'm beginning to think you're not here to learn but rather spew an agenda contrary to the Gospel. Hope I'm wrong.

There's only one gospel. To teach contrary to the gospel that Paul presents is to teach "another gospel". To teach another gospel is a serious offense. If you don't believe me read Paul"

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

 

[Roberth]

Is this a metaphor.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."—Isaiah 53:6.

Christ used "sheep" metaphorically. He used common illustrations for the people of His time so that could understand. Sheep tend to go astray. Likewise, all humans have gone astray - each as turned to his own way. Because of this God laid our own wayness on Christ. How did God do this? Paul has the answer. I've already given two crucial texts: Rom 6:6/7:4

 

[Roberth]

He took our sin .....

How? How did He take our sin? What does that mean?

 

[Roberth]

When the Bible says that Jesus "bore our sins" it simply means that he bore our sins. Period!

"He bore our sins" means what?