How to spot an anti legalist

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#41
A branch cannot bear fruit except it abide in the....... Vine= the Word of Truth which shows you the Way to Eternal Life

For if the firstfruit (Christ) be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

John 15:4-6 "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
Done. When we were placed IN CHRIST.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#42
That's the biggest error I see in this false impression of God's grace, which excuses itself of ongoing sin. They hold back the Truth in unrighteousness by saying Gods love forgives them and even allows them to remain in ongoing sin. So to them love is a one way street in thinking God's love and grace excuses their ongoing sinful behavior, but their sinful behavior proves they do not truly love God.

Love fulfills the law, but Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments. Those who are living in sin do not truly love God, they love themselves more. People who believe Gods grace and love allows them salvation despite their ever ongoing wickedness and sinful ways are sadly mistaken. There is going to be a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth.
That's the biggest misrepresentation yet. You are not reading clear.
no one is saying Gods grace allows us to remain in sin.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#43
Love fulfills the law, but Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments. Those who are living in sin do not truly love God, they love themselves more. People who believe Gods grace and love allows them salvation despite their ever ongoing wickedness and sinful ways are sadly mistaken. There is going to be a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth.
What is sin beyond not believing in Christ and loving our neighbor as our self? If we do those two things, who can say we are sinning?
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#44
Done. When we were placed IN CHRIST.
People use the term "in Christ" loosely, and I'm not judging you personally just making a point here. But I've said this over and over again that you cannot truly be "in Christ" and also "in sin" at the same time. Hopefully people will come to understand this truth, everyone needs to search themselves and see if Christ is truly in them.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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#45
I think that it may be helpful to note the difference between antinomianism and anti-legalism.

Antinomianism is a refusal to submit to rules of any kind on principle. This attitude is certainly un-Scriptural and wrong.

Anti-legalism is a refusal to allow a set of rules to substitute for the doctrine of Salvation by grace alone.

Both legalists and anti-legalists expect believers to obey the teachings of Jesus, as set forth in the NT.

As I understand the difference between legalists and anti-legalists, legalists expect obedience to flow from the efforts of the believers while anti-legalists expect the obedience to flow from the work of the Holy Spirit.

It is not my intent to insult or offend anyone. If any of those who are legalists see the difference differently I am open to amending my thinking on this.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#47
Add faith and that's all there is. Nothing else matters. Believe in Christ and love others makes us well-pleasing to GOD.
This is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23

Love does not commit evil against a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:10

Yes love is the fulfillment of the law because it does not transgress against God or others, and love upholds all of the Lords commandments as Romans 13:9 shows. We can not state Romans 13:10 without verse 13:9 as well !!!

Even Apostle John spends the majority of his epistle speaking on showing how the difference of how a believer will walk compared to a unbeliever/disobedient person. Also in 2 John 1:9-10 he says we must keep in the doctrine of Christ, which means His teachings and commands.

All scripture must be taken into account and we must use scripture to interpret scripture for proper understanding. Leaving parts off will always lead to a misunderstanding of what was really said.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#49
NOT ONE PERSON on here... who has been referred to a "legalistic" has EVER asserted that the fruit of grace is licentiousness. So I will chalk that up to MORE misunderstanding on your part... some of us... being older than you... have actually SEEN scenarios play out that have challenged our theological thinking... and caused us to notice how the EMPHASIS of grace has caused people to be deceived. We care about SOULS OF MEN. For those "older" folks who have lived charmed lives and never seen the "ugly" things of the world... well good for you... having not seen it... doesn't make it any less TRUE!
Look up hyper-grace and people who oppose it. The accusation is always licentiousness. The emphasis on grace needs to be emphasized more, a lot more. People need to stop trying to balance grace with the Law, it nullifies both. If you don't preach grace, people's lives won't be changed. The Law is not a remedy for sin, but it does expose it. It has no ability to help someone overcome it. Grace does. "Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under law but grace.'
 
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KennethC

Guest
#50
I think that it may be helpful to note the difference between antinomianism and anti-legalism.

Antinomianism is a refusal to submit to rules of any kind on principle. This attitude is certainly un-Scriptural and wrong.

Anti-legalism is a refusal to allow a set of rules to substitute for the doctrine of Salvation by grace alone.

Both legalists and anti-legalists expect believers to obey the teachings of Jesus, as set forth in the NT.

As I understand the difference between legalists and anti-legalists, legalists expect obedience to flow from the efforts of the believers while anti-legalists expect the obedience to flow from the work of the Holy Spirit.

It is not my intent to insult or offend anyone. If any of those who are legalists see the difference differently I am open to amending my thinking on this.
What about we bring everybody to the truth that the works of the faith do come from the Holy Spirit, but they are done by Him through us so we technically are doing them works by the empowering of the Holy Spirit !!!
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#51
What is sin beyond not believing in Christ and loving our neighbor as our self? If we do those two things, who can say we are sinning?
If one is abiding in Christ and walking in the Spirit they shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh=sin

Here are the lusts of the flesh....

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

And here....

Galatians 5:16-21 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#52
some people will love that darkness (sins) more then the Light
How many Christians do you know that love darkness more than Light?
Come on now why ask such questions instead of just listening to the Lord on what He said from John 3:16-21.

Lord Jesus said a couple of times there will be those who walk around calling Him their Lord and claiming to be Christian, but when it comes to judgment He says He will tell them He never knew them.

I know people want to separate a true Christian from a false Christian and just keep it at that, but there is always a chance for the one walking in sinful ways to repent so we can not just write them off.

However we still can tell them by their fruit on if they are saved or not !!!

I have mentioned already a couple of people I know who live homosexual lifestyles, and how they have stated they don't believe what is written in the bible because they don't see God being loving as He is would condemn for continuing to live their life that way. By continuing that way they are actually loving darkness more then light !!!
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#53
Look up hyper-grace and people who oppose it. The accusation is always licentiousness. The emphasis on grace needs to be emphasized more, a lot more. People need to stop trying to balance grace with the Law, it nullifies both. If you don't preach grace, people's lives won't be changed. The Law is not a remedy for sin, but it does expose it. It has no ability to help someone overcome it. Grace does. "Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under law but grace.'
This is where you and I disagree because it is not a situation of teaching Law more then Grace or Grace more than Law.

It is about teaching and instructing on Grace and Warnings of sinful behavior in a balanced setting, as sound doctrine teaching of Christ requires both to be taught. If we focus to much on one side or the other then we might get to lost in a unbalanced approach as some pastor's have done.

For I have seen some pastors preach grace only and turn around in the next breath and tell the congregation they can continue to live however they want because grace will abound and cover their sinful acts. This was very bad in the 90's that such teachings were taught, and I see it still today by some.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#54
Hyper-grace is a canard against the body of Christ. There is no such thing as too much grace. IMO the term is used by those who have an agenda other than Christ. I'm not sure if Michael Brown originated the term, but he certainly has popularized it.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#55
Wow! this thread must have really bothered some people. We're on page 3 in just 6 hours with 55 posts. That's approximately 1 post every 6 and a half minutes.

 
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shotgunner

Guest
#56
If one is abiding in Christ and walking in the Spirit they shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh=sin

Here are the lusts of the flesh....

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

And here....

Galatians 5:16-21 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
I agree with those scriptures but here is the difference.

The scripture says this.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Not this!
You will stay washed, you will stay sanctified, you will stay justified, so long as you keep yourself from those things.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#57
If one is abiding in Christ and walking in the Spirit they shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh=sin

Here are the lusts of the flesh....

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

And here....

Galatians 5:16-21 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
How are any of those things that Paul mentioned not either 1) having faith in Christ, or 2) loving one's neighbor as one's self?

In other words and as an example, how can one commit adultery against his neighbor without harming him/her.
 
Feb 26, 2015
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#58
The problem is there are many people who believe you can actually lose one's Salvation just by sinning.

We cannot lose our Salvation by sinning, but this does not mean we are to continue in our sins.
 
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shotgunner

Guest
#59
The problem is there are many people who believe you can actually lose one's Salvation just by sinning.

We cannot lose our Salvation by sinning, but this does not mean we are to continue in our sins.
There it is , stated as simply and accurately as possible.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#60
The problem is there are many people who believe you can actually lose one's Salvation just by sinning.

We cannot lose our Salvation by sinning, but this does not mean we are to continue in our sins.
Being sincere towards all of God's words or neglectful to them tells the difference between right and wrong.