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It's very rare to be able to trace back family to the early centuaries. All our records were destroyed by Napoleon. Anyway, my point was I guess, some see the Jews as being bloodline related to Adam. Others see it more as a spiritual thing. If we base who is a Jew and who is not on blood line ancestory that becomes a bit tricky because a lot of the blood relatives are Muslims. So then we are forced to say that Muslims are God's people because they are blood related to the Israelites of the bible. I know there are some who really take this blood line ancestry thing seriously, maybe it's a form of racism?
Anyway from what I've been reading if my memory is right the biblical Israelites were a sort of Afro-asian mix, they had African features like rounded nose, cheeks, darker skin etc than the more eastern looking Israelites or Arabs you see today.
Anyway from what I've been reading if my memory is right the biblical Israelites were a sort of Afro-asian mix, they had African features like rounded nose, cheeks, darker skin etc than the more eastern looking Israelites or Arabs you see today.
A
Ok here's a question: If they (Orthodox Jews) are not allowed to extinguish a flame on the Sabbath. How do they put the Sabbath candles out??? Do they just leave them burning all night? Isn't that dangerous??? The Wal-Mart near my house has Sabbath candles, on display at the end of an aisle. Isn't that funny? They're totally catering to the market.
well some orthodox have these timers I think that switch electricity /lights etc off at the right time.
A bit far fetched if you ask me but that's exactly the kind of gnat straining that Jesus encountered from the Pharisees. Rules of men , focussing on small specks but ignoring the bigger logs in their own eye.
A bit far fetched if you ask me but that's exactly the kind of gnat straining that Jesus encountered from the Pharisees. Rules of men , focussing on small specks but ignoring the bigger logs in their own eye.
A
Right, but I'm talking about the actual candles that they use. You can't put out a real flame with a timer. At work we have this plush Sabbath toy that has candels, challah and the cloth they put over the challah loaves. That way the Jewish kids can practice reciting the blessing. Or at least that's what I think they used it for. I've never actually seen it used. We've also had a plush Seder plate sitting on lunch table for over a week now. I keep asking my Jewish co-workers what the potato is for, since we never put a potato on our plate, and sadly they just don't remember.
Did you know that Wednesday morning they'll be celebrating something they only celebrate every 28 years?? I found this on-line
Every 28 years the sun returns to the same position, at the same time of the week, that it occupied at the time of its creation—at the beginning of the fourth day of creation. A special blessing – called Birkat Hachamah, "the sun blessing" – is recited to mark this event. Due to the rarity of this event, this blessing is customarily recited amid large public gatherings of men, women and children.
Interesting, hey?
Did you know that Wednesday morning they'll be celebrating something they only celebrate every 28 years?? I found this on-line
Every 28 years the sun returns to the same position, at the same time of the week, that it occupied at the time of its creation—at the beginning of the fourth day of creation. A special blessing – called Birkat Hachamah, "the sun blessing" – is recited to mark this event. Due to the rarity of this event, this blessing is customarily recited amid large public gatherings of men, women and children.
Interesting, hey?
J
God s word says he blinded the spiritual eyes of the Jews, so we [gentiles] could be grafted in to the vine, which is Jesus, the jews being the first branches, we being grafted in to bring the jews to jealousy, are the second branches. Jews are the first fruits of the vine. However, the word tells us gentiles not to be puffed up, for has we have been gratfed in, we could be cut off. Jews are the first fruits of the church, and God will remove the scales from their eyes when the beast requires them[ and everyone left on the earth] to take his mark in their forhead or hand, in order to buy or sell. The Jews eyes will be opened to Jesus being the Christ and their redeemer. They will refuse the mark and reject the beast. the Jews will be beheaded for their saviour, Jesus. God loves the Jewish people, and tells us to pray for and bless them, in turn, we will be blessed.
We are in the last hours, for this man is now in power. Violence is raging in the world. Gods word is being played out before us. We has christians need to stand together, praying for one another, loving each other, trusting in our God though Christ to open our eyes and hearts to his word. The days have been shortened. Let the goats stay on the left, and let the sheep start feeding the sheep. The Jews are the first sheep in the fold. Let us all work together, realizing we have one heavenly father over all of us, and one mediator for us in Christ.
We are in the last hours, for this man is now in power. Violence is raging in the world. Gods word is being played out before us. We has christians need to stand together, praying for one another, loving each other, trusting in our God though Christ to open our eyes and hearts to his word. The days have been shortened. Let the goats stay on the left, and let the sheep start feeding the sheep. The Jews are the first sheep in the fold. Let us all work together, realizing we have one heavenly father over all of us, and one mediator for us in Christ.
A
they have to burn themselves out.. hence why shabbat candles arent that big 
I heard that you can put out a flame on the sabbath if and only if human life is in danger. But if your house is on fire and no one is inside then you just have to wait until it's dark enough to see 3 stars on Saturday night to put it out. Of course it might be hard to see the stars if your house is on fire!
A
Yes, yes I do. Maybe that's why Jesus wasn't popular with the Jewish leaders. I guess he just wasn't what they were looking for in a Messiah. I think the Messiah they were looking for would tell them once and for all how many steps is lawful to take on the Sabbath and, of course, throw off the Romans.
M
The concepts of Mashiakh Ben Yosef and Meshiakh Ben David (Messiah son of Joseph, and Messiah son of David) didn't become a common understanding till much later sadly. NOT that that's the only reason why many were blind to his coming.
Sure there are mitzvot (sorry, commandments) about not extinguishing flames, but no Jewish person thinks on this level alone. The flame of Shabbat symbolizes so much more. Whilst I'm not legalistic (my wife would let me know trust me!) Most Jews think about it this way, that we have ushered the Lord's holy presence and light in and so have no desire to be the ones to remove it. Also symbolically the light from Shabbat gives us the light for the whole week ahead (like the rest gives us our needed break from work). Kabbalists take this to a whole different level, but as a believer in Yeshua there's a lot of deep symbolism that I want to connect to the Lord with. The key element being activating faith (remember you can go wash in the river 7 times to become clean, but it's the faith that released the cleansing/healing not the washing itself)
Obviously there are many traditions that people do out of respect and love for the Lord that shouldn't become a binding thing (some Christians refuse to put Bibles on the floor or choose to stand to hear the reading of the word etc). As I said earlier, the idea of creating fences in the law was I believe a pure-motivation, and lets not forget that Jesus also kept the whole law perfectly bringing its fullness not destroying it. The funny thing is, because Pharisee-ism has become so synonymous with hypocrisy and legalism somehow we don't have eyes to see it in our own expressions relegating it to a kind of practice or behavior that as long as we don't do we're 'ok'... (e.g. Evangelicals bring this mindset with them looking at the historic expressions of the church as we can see from threads on the forums!)
The funny thing is we have all forgotten like those who misunderstand when Jesus said to not be of the world.. that God in his creation of the perfect place (Eden) put TWO trees in it. How many of us contrary to the Lord try and create worlds for us and our children that remove all possibilities for sin..? How many of us still scream at sinners of the fires of hell because deep down we are afraid of them and the power of sin that will overtake us if we're around them too long and so keep them at arms length, denying us the opportunity to truly love? Have we never asked why sinners loved to be around Jesus?
anyway, before I go off the trail.. you can see I'm not a defender of legalistic practice although I see why many are devoted to its many expressions... I just would love to see it challenged in all expressions and of course see it overlooked.. because love covers after all.. a multitude of sins.
Sure there are mitzvot (sorry, commandments) about not extinguishing flames, but no Jewish person thinks on this level alone. The flame of Shabbat symbolizes so much more. Whilst I'm not legalistic (my wife would let me know trust me!) Most Jews think about it this way, that we have ushered the Lord's holy presence and light in and so have no desire to be the ones to remove it. Also symbolically the light from Shabbat gives us the light for the whole week ahead (like the rest gives us our needed break from work). Kabbalists take this to a whole different level, but as a believer in Yeshua there's a lot of deep symbolism that I want to connect to the Lord with. The key element being activating faith (remember you can go wash in the river 7 times to become clean, but it's the faith that released the cleansing/healing not the washing itself)
Obviously there are many traditions that people do out of respect and love for the Lord that shouldn't become a binding thing (some Christians refuse to put Bibles on the floor or choose to stand to hear the reading of the word etc). As I said earlier, the idea of creating fences in the law was I believe a pure-motivation, and lets not forget that Jesus also kept the whole law perfectly bringing its fullness not destroying it. The funny thing is, because Pharisee-ism has become so synonymous with hypocrisy and legalism somehow we don't have eyes to see it in our own expressions relegating it to a kind of practice or behavior that as long as we don't do we're 'ok'... (e.g. Evangelicals bring this mindset with them looking at the historic expressions of the church as we can see from threads on the forums!)
The funny thing is we have all forgotten like those who misunderstand when Jesus said to not be of the world.. that God in his creation of the perfect place (Eden) put TWO trees in it. How many of us contrary to the Lord try and create worlds for us and our children that remove all possibilities for sin..? How many of us still scream at sinners of the fires of hell because deep down we are afraid of them and the power of sin that will overtake us if we're around them too long and so keep them at arms length, denying us the opportunity to truly love? Have we never asked why sinners loved to be around Jesus?
anyway, before I go off the trail.. you can see I'm not a defender of legalistic practice although I see why many are devoted to its many expressions... I just would love to see it challenged in all expressions and of course see it overlooked.. because love covers after all.. a multitude of sins.
M
Who's to say who the Jews are? As said on here before, there is no DNA proof. Suppose the bible said that a people claimed to be jews but werent really the same blood line of Christ at all. Nay, a lie to set up Satan's kingdom in the Lords holy city, as satan longs to sit in the Lords seat. Christ said that no man cometh to the Father, but by me. Doesnt that mean no man? Can one be saved not by grace but by race? Judah is but one tribe. Where do you suppose the other 11 tribes went to? Who is Judah really or has that identity been stolen? Is it the Ashkenazi or is it the Sephardi? Who could answer me this?
He that hateth me hateth my Father also Is Christ loved or hated in the state of Israel today? Is He thought of in a nuetral light. Nay.
He that hateth me hateth my Father also Is Christ loved or hated in the state of Israel today? Is He thought of in a nuetral light. Nay.
J
read the word, the jews[the first branches] have been blinded to Jesus being the Christ so we [everyone who is not a jew] could be grafted into the vine, However, we are NOT TO BE PUFFED UP by this, least your branch be removed from the vine[Jesus] for the scales will be removed from the jews eyes, when their father removes them[for they will not bow down to islam, nor recieve the mark[number], then they shall grieve for him who they pierced.
Judge not, lest ye be judged, for who will it be that judgeth another mans servant?
hahaha... hmm... nutjob me thinks
M
ha.. yeah maybe you're right, maybe that wasn't the most loving. haha my apologies.
but anyone who clearly insists that there is no DNA proof of Jewish lineage or that Jews are of primarily black/asian descent or needs to do severe scriptural gymnastics to make a point is clearly losing his marbles.
I would like to point out however that the scales are already falling from our eyes (hooray!)
in the words of Bobby McFerrin... Don't worry... be happy!
but anyone who clearly insists that there is no DNA proof of Jewish lineage or that Jews are of primarily black/asian descent or needs to do severe scriptural gymnastics to make a point is clearly losing his marbles.
I would like to point out however that the scales are already falling from our eyes (hooray!)
in the words of Bobby McFerrin... Don't worry... be happy!
I was reading this website:
http://www.angelfire.com/ill/hebrewisrael/printpages/phys.html
Weren't the Hebrews a black-skinned people, at least that's what the bible seems to say. Even if they weren't originally, living in Egypt and intermixing with the Egyptians certainly would have introduced blackness.
It seems that the true Jews (by blood descent) were black caucasoids of northern Ethiopia , not Ashehekanzaic Jews who are converts from the Turko-Russian region.
Here is a portrayal of Jesus constructed by scientists based on best available evidence of what people looked like in Palestine in the period.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcfa.htm
Dark olive skin, curly hair, prominent roundish nose and rounded facial features , are more African type features. Although they weren't negros I think the original Jews were black and there seems to be strong biblical and historical evidence for this.
http://www.angelfire.com/ill/hebrewisrael/printpages/phys.html
Weren't the Hebrews a black-skinned people, at least that's what the bible seems to say. Even if they weren't originally, living in Egypt and intermixing with the Egyptians certainly would have introduced blackness.
It seems that the true Jews (by blood descent) were black caucasoids of northern Ethiopia , not Ashehekanzaic Jews who are converts from the Turko-Russian region.
Here is a portrayal of Jesus constructed by scientists based on best available evidence of what people looked like in Palestine in the period.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcfa.htm
Dark olive skin, curly hair, prominent roundish nose and rounded facial features , are more African type features. Although they weren't negros I think the original Jews were black and there seems to be strong biblical and historical evidence for this.
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