Marijuana?

[charisenexcelcis]

you are kidding me - that actually proves nothing because the alcohol evaporates

we are dealing here with a well meaning Baptist dogma

we ought to as Yoseph because whatever they were doing then they will still be doing

I have been to a Passover Seder and they use vintage wine.

Well, our modern civilization does fortify some wines and liquers with extra alcohol. I think that Jesus drank wine that had alcohol in it though in some moderation. The passover thing might have to do with the use of yeast to ferment wine, thus the cleansing of the household from all yeast before the feast day.

 

[greatkraw]

the concept that they used non alcoholic wine or grape juice at the Last Supper is without foundation

 

[charisenexcelcis]

the concept that they used non alcoholic wine or grape juice at the Last Supper is without foundation

I've heard it but never researched it for myself. It's not high on my to do list...

 

[MahogonySnail]

In fact Jesus drank so much wine that others called him a tippler!

 

[superdave5221]

Iverson is a PhD, not an MD.Cup can find PhD that will attest that the earth is flat. Regardless, the "marijuana zero" is an urban myth. If your research is done right, you might say negligible, but not zero. If marijuana is zero it would not be the fourteenth leading cause of death. It would be somewhere after getting one's scarf stuck in an elevator. So, this is not research, only rhetoric. I am also opposed to wife battering, a bad comparison by the way. Gee is sitting around the basement, living off your retired mother and smoking pot all day long as bad as being a sociopathic multiple murderer? duh. But I guarentee that there are thousands of retired mothers who think that pot is distructive to life and relationships.

Agreed. The point is that marijuana is not even in the same ball park with alcohol. Evidently there were no deaths that could be attributable to marijuana. And there were only fourteen categories in the list, so it had to be number fourteen. This IS research, backed up by real data. That you may disagree with it doesn't make it rhetoric. Also, your remark about PhD as opposed to MD is faulty as well. MD's routinely defer to Pharmacologists and their reps in determining the range of possible effects of drugs that they prescribe. They are the best to know. They are actively involved in the production and testing of most drugs before the doctor ever sees them. Anyway, you seem to believe that "retired mothers" know more about the subject than either PhD's or MD's. I also think that I carefully clarified what kind of pot smokers I was talking about when I said "Most recreational users have no problem". Your analogy doesn't fit.

I don't believe as Christians that we should smoke marijuana at all. I just don't want to force that opinion on other Christians. They can decide for themselves. But what is most egregious is the government doing it!! And sending people to prison for it!! That makes no sense to me.

 

[tryingtofindhim]

I say the foundation of drinking wine isn't important. The Bible says its okay to have a little wine as long as a person doesn't get drunk. So don't get drunk and we're good. The Bible also says follow the laws of the land, so until marijuana becomes legal we as Christians should stay away from it.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Agreed. The point is that marijuana is not even in the same ball park with alcohol. Evidently there were no deaths that could be attributable to marijuana. And there were only fourteen categories in the list, so it had to be number fourteen. This IS research, backed up by real data. That you may disagree with it doesn't make it rhetoric. Also, your remark about PhD as opposed to MD is faulty as well. MD's routinely defer to Pharmacologists and their reps in determining the range of possible effects of drugs that they prescribe. They are the best to know. They are actively involved in the production and testing of most drugs before the doctor ever sees them. Anyway, you seem to believe that "retired mothers" know more about the subject than either PhD's or MD's. I also think that I carefully clarified what kind of pot smokers I was talking about when I said "Most recreational users have no problem". Your analogy doesn't fit.

I don't believe as Christians that we should smoke marijuana at all. I just don't want to force that opinion on other Christians. They can decide for themselves. But what is most egregious is the government doing it!! And sending people to prison for it!! That makes no sense to me.

I think that retired mothers who have to support their pothead sons do know more. And a pharmocolgist is a MD, not a PhD. A PhD is a doctor of philosophy. If the research was thorough it wouldn't of said "zero", because I personally know young men who went driving while under the influence and wrapped their car afround a tree and died. Cause of death: car accident. Real culprit: pot. Up until then, that "recreational user" had no problem with pot.

 

[superdave5221]

I say the foundation of drinking wine isn't important. The Bible says its okay to have a little wine as long as a person doesn't get drunk. So don't get drunk and we're good. The Bible also says follow the laws of the land, so until marijuana becomes legal we as Christians should stay away from it.

Medical marijuana is now legal in 13 states. These include AK, CA, CO, HI, ME, MI, MT, NV, NM, OR, RI, VT, WA.

 

[superdave5221]

I think that retired mothers who have to support their pothead sons do know more. And a pharmocolgist is a MD, not a PhD. A PhD is a doctor of philosophy. If the research was thorough it wouldn't of said "zero", because I personally know young men who went driving while under the influence and wrapped their car afround a tree and died. Cause of death: car accident. Real culprit: pot. Up until then, that "recreational user" had no problem with pot.

Definition: A recreational user is one who uses ocasionally, perhaps on the weekend, while holding down a job during the week like everyone else. They raise families, many go to church, they are members of the PTA. Stop being so narrow minded!!! They are responsible users who don't use and drive, like alcoholics should not do either. Also, You should google PhD. There ARE PhD's in pharmacology and all other science fields. The author of that article was a PhD in pharmacology, and as such, probably had as much or more education as any MD. You're spltting hairs. You're also saying that a responsible researcher should ignore the data and list "what probably happened".

 

[Cako53]

the concept that they used non alcoholic wine or grape juice at the Last Supper is without foundation

I don't recall ever saying that though. I said that the level of alcohol was MUCH lower back than.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Definition: A recreational user is one who uses ocasionally, perhaps on the weekend, while holding down a job during the week like everyone else. They raise families, many go to church, they are members of the PTA. Stop being so narrow minded!!! They are responsible users who don't use and drive, like alcoholics should not do either. Also, You should google PhD. There ARE PhD's in pharmacology and all other science fields. The author of that article was a PhD in pharmacology, and as such, probably had as much or more education as any MD. You're spltting hairs. You're also saying that a responsible researcher should ignore the data and list "what probably happened".

I'll conceed on the Phd. But the fact remains that you are only "recreational" until you aren't. My sister is a case in point. She would call herself a recreational user. But, based upon the research of indivuals such as Dr. Iversen, she steps outside to a quiet nook at work to smoke a joint, just to relax. She doesn't need to have pot every day, so she sees nothing wrong with smoking it every day. And I pray every day that it will not be the day that her only slightly altered less than being drunk perception will not wind up with her in small pieces in the road.

 

[aprilrenee1]

WTC?! Im so confused...Im all for it, medically

 

[superdave5221]

I'll conceed on the Phd. But the fact remains that you are only "recreational" until you aren't. My sister is a case in point. She would call herself a recreational user. But, based upon the research of indivuals such as Dr. Iversen, she steps outside to a quiet nook at work to smoke a joint, just to relax. She doesn't need to have pot every day, so she sees nothing wrong with smoking it every day. And I pray every day that it will not be the day that her only slightly altered less than being drunk perception will not wind up with her in small pieces in the road.

Check this out. from ScienceDaily (Mar. 29, 1999):

The safety hazards of smoking marijuana and driving are overrated, says University of Toronto researcher Alison Smiley.

Recent research into impairment and traffic accident reports from several countries shows that marijuana taken alone in moderate amounts does not significantly increase a driver's risk of causing an accident -- unlike alcohol, says Smiley, an adjunct professor in the department of mechanical and industrial engineering. While smoking marijuana does impair driving ability, it does not share alcohol's effect on judgment. Drivers on marijuana remain aware of their impairment, prompting them to slow down and drive more cautiously to compensate, she says.
"Both substances impair performance," Smiley says. "However, the more cautious behaviour of subjects who received marijuana decreases the drug's impact on performance. Their behaviour is more appropriate to their impairment, whereas subjects who received alcohol tend to drive in a more risky manner."

Smiley, who has studied transportation safety for over 25 years, drew her results from a "metanalysis" of existing research into the effects of marijuana on driving ability, combined with traffic accident statistics in the United States and Australia.
End of Article quote

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Check this out. from ScienceDaily (Mar. 29, 1999):

The safety hazards of smoking marijuana and driving are overrated, says University of Toronto researcher Alison Smiley.

Recent research into impairment and traffic accident reports from several countries shows that marijuana taken alone in moderate amounts does not significantly increase a driver's risk of causing an accident -- unlike alcohol, says Smiley, an adjunct professor in the department of mechanical and industrial engineering. While smoking marijuana does impair driving ability, it does not share alcohol's effect on judgment. Drivers on marijuana remain aware of their impairment, prompting them to slow down and drive more cautiously to compensate, she says.
"Both substances impair performance," Smiley says. "However, the more cautious behaviour of subjects who received marijuana decreases the drug's impact on performance. Their behaviour is more appropriate to their impairment, whereas subjects who received alcohol tend to drive in a more risky manner."

Smiley, who has studied transportation safety for over 25 years, drew her results from a "metanalysis" of existing research into the effects of marijuana on driving ability, combined with traffic accident statistics in the United States and Australia.
End of Article quote

I think we are arguing in circles. I would not get into a car with a driver who had been smoking pot. I hope and pray that you would neither. God Bless you and grant you wisdom.

 

[MahogonySnail]

nice article here about DUI

http://www.nida.nih.gov/infofacts/driving.html

 

[superdave5221]

I think we are arguing in circles. I would not get into a car with a driver who had been smoking pot. I hope and pray that you would neither. God Bless you and grant you wisdom.

You are right, I wouldn't. God bless you as well!

 

[thelevite]

i drove really really high once. like extremely high. i almost died twice but my girlfriend in the passenger seat managed to grab the wheel in time.

 

[faith4life]

I believe we were talking about marijuana not murder.

true, but you said we should be able to do what ever we want.

 

[faith4life]

I would say that as long as we have the Holy Spirit in us, the demons won't be coming in!!

So are you saying that the holy spirit wants us to get high?

 

[superdave5221]

So are you saying that the holy spirit wants us to get high?

The Holy Spirit will not leave a person because they smoke a little marijuana. As to what the Holy Spirit wants, if you have Him in you, ask Him yourself.