Mary the mother of my Lord (Heresy?)
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“Our Church believes in the intercession of the Virgin Mary, the Angels and the
Saints. Those who don’t share our view regarding the intercession of the saints,
usually cite 1Jn 2:1: “We have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the
righteous”. They also cite St. Paul: “For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (1Ti 2:5)
In support of this important dogma, our church emphasizes the following:
There is a major and essential difference between the Advocacy of our Lord
and that of the Saints: the Advocacy of Christ is a propitiatory one…”
3)February 6, 2005
Prayer to the Saints – Part 3: The State of the Dead
PRAYER TO SAINTS III
http://www.ourlifeinchrist.com/Progr...ts3_020605.htm
“Consciousness continues with the spirit after the death of the body. “Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord…” (Rev. 14:13) The soul is the seat of conciousness, the mind is not something apart from the soul, but its purest part, since what the eyes are to the body, such is the mind to the soul. The soul that sins it will “die”, but “death” is not unconciousness or annihilation, it is a state of being in relationship to God who is Life”
Look at this!
More formulas for praying to the departed.
How about going straight to the builder and maker of the church(spiritual body of Christ)?
How about going straight to God Himself?
Is that too hard a concept?
Every intermediary step one feels obligated to pray to acts as a mute on the Holy Spirit.
It is like the game children play where they sit side by side in a row, and one whispers to the one next to them a certain thing in their ear.; and the other whispers it to the next, and so on.......until it gets to the end of the line and the last child is asked to say what was whispered to them. And they always say something completely different than what was first uttered.
So it is with introducing extra intermediaries.
There is almost a pantheistic feel to this..........(Many Gods)..........don't forget to pray to the saint of trees. Or the saint of rivers......or the saint of the harvest.......or the 'queen of heaven', especially don't forget to pray to her! - (Astarta-the angel who keeps the walls of Babylon)
Saints. Those who don’t share our view regarding the intercession of the saints,
usually cite 1Jn 2:1: “We have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the
righteous”. They also cite St. Paul: “For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (1Ti 2:5)
In support of this important dogma, our church emphasizes the following:
There is a major and essential difference between the Advocacy of our Lord
and that of the Saints: the Advocacy of Christ is a propitiatory one…”
3)February 6, 2005
Prayer to the Saints – Part 3: The State of the Dead
PRAYER TO SAINTS III
http://www.ourlifeinchrist.com/Progr...ts3_020605.htm
“Consciousness continues with the spirit after the death of the body. “Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord…” (Rev. 14:13) The soul is the seat of conciousness, the mind is not something apart from the soul, but its purest part, since what the eyes are to the body, such is the mind to the soul. The soul that sins it will “die”, but “death” is not unconciousness or annihilation, it is a state of being in relationship to God who is Life”
Look at this!
More formulas for praying to the departed.
How about going straight to the builder and maker of the church(spiritual body of Christ)?
How about going straight to God Himself?
Is that too hard a concept?
Every intermediary step one feels obligated to pray to acts as a mute on the Holy Spirit.
It is like the game children play where they sit side by side in a row, and one whispers to the one next to them a certain thing in their ear.; and the other whispers it to the next, and so on.......until it gets to the end of the line and the last child is asked to say what was whispered to them. And they always say something completely different than what was first uttered.
So it is with introducing extra intermediaries.
There is almost a pantheistic feel to this..........(Many Gods)..........don't forget to pray to the saint of trees. Or the saint of rivers......or the saint of the harvest.......or the 'queen of heaven', especially don't forget to pray to her! - (Astarta-the angel who keeps the walls of Babylon)
A
I know a brother in Christ he is not Roman or Orthodox Catholic, He is born again and has been taught by the Lord in a personal relationship. He is a seer in the spiritual realm and has communicated to me his ability to go to the Lord as the Lord shows him how He wants to teach him, the 5 years i have known him and listened to him tell me his experiences they all line up with the scripture even though He is illiterate when it comes to reading. Well at the age of 8 He lost his sister she was 11, 14 years later he was going through great trials and almost death, he went to his sister’s grave to ask her to help him, a few days later The Lord Jesus spoke to him and told him VERY STERNLY to NEVER again try to communicate to those in heaven, It troubled his sister so much that it broke the dominance of the heavenly dominion that is protected in God's absolute peace and love. This reveals why we do not communicate to those in heaven, if any one does it is a sin. Now if God tells someone in heaven to help or minister to someone on earth that would be the only possibility, i cannot speak for Him if He has ever or will ever ask anyone other than angels. Heaven is their rest from all the works of faith exercised on earth there is no faith in heaven there is no more faith once one is in Heaven. What about the Old Covenant it forbad communicating with the dead it was punished by death remember King Saul and the witch of Endor successfully communicated with Samuel.
A
Please forgive Saul did not just want to see if He could casually talk to Samuel but was in dire need of wisdom so it was a pray an asking per say. Saul wanted to pray and get an answer from Samuel, Samuel told him about his demise. Samuels answer was not good but of Sauls judgement his rejection by God.
Thank you for all who have answered. I like to listen to others way of rationality, it helps grow in the Lord.
Here is part of my rationality in the subject.
God never said Do Not Love Anyone Else. He said Love me above all.
So does that mean we can not love every one who enter his kingdom?
Or love every one here on earth?
If you believe the Virgin Mary did not go to heaven, What hope do I have?
Why is it important to me?
God chose her to have His Son. That tells me something.
Will she save me?
God saves me.
Why ask her for prayer?
If God is the only one as some have stated, well why ask others then to pray for me? This has no rational understanding for me.
Here is part of my rationality in the subject.
God never said Do Not Love Anyone Else. He said Love me above all.
So does that mean we can not love every one who enter his kingdom?
Or love every one here on earth?
If you believe the Virgin Mary did not go to heaven, What hope do I have?
Why is it important to me?
God chose her to have His Son. That tells me something.
Will she save me?
God saves me.
Why ask her for prayer?
If God is the only one as some have stated, well why ask others then to pray for me? This has no rational understanding for me.
Mary did not pre-exist Yahweh. Jesus or Yeshua is the incarnation of God in the flesh, however upon a cursory study of the Word, you will find He is the Alpha and the Omega, with no beginning and with no end. He, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are One. Understand this, Mary is a creature just as you and I are; she is also very humble. She is the mother of God encarnate, and it was given to her by our Maker to be such, but she is by no means the mother of God, and this thought and concept is just one of the many heresies of mankind coursing the globe today. Now Mary is the absolute, hands down most blessed woman ever to exist, and in this sense, of course, I honor her, but to even hint she is the mother of God Almighty is an insult to her very being. If anyone indeed loves Mary, they will honor her as a revered sister in Yeshua, Jesus, no more and no less. She is humble.
A
We do not ask pray to those who finished their lives on earth, which was and is their and our journey of faith, now those who are in heaven, there is a perfect rest from faith and the earth this is protected by God for they are in His heaven and His promise of rest from all their spiritual works, now if i approach a citizen of Heaven with my problem of faith how is this not troubling to them they dwell in heaven and see face to face Jesus the perfect author and finisher of their faith, while i am here on earth it is my faith walk and growth which is not and cannot be perfected by someone who has no more faith, faith is not in heaven there is no need for faith in heaven, journey of faith for all those on earth does not exist in heaven, for they see and experience all the fullness for their faith. The Perfecter of our faith is one and only one Jesus Christ, If i ask a spiritual brother or sister that is on their faith journey on earth to pray for me then i am exercising my faith for them and they for me that is what God wants for us to grow in that faith to work growth in Agape Love that is the most important character to prepare us for His heavenly fullness the fullness of His presence that is omnipotent Agape love, for while i am in heaven i see and feel all that my faith prepared me for therefore faith is not needed or present in heaven.
J
The main thing as that you were raised Eastern Orthodox without any understanding of ancient Church teaching, and how the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches are two sides of the same apostate coin.
See how that works?
Now, if you don't mind. Could you please provide scripture rather than copying and pasting the words of someone else?
See how that works?
Now, if you don't mind. Could you please provide scripture rather than copying and pasting the words of someone else?
I understand your reasoning on the walk of faith, but when I think of Love which we are supposed to love all, I can not reason If I go to heaven forgetting about those here in earth. True love last for ever, wile I may not reach true love here on earth, wouldn't you think if we go to heaven we can attain pure love fore all? God above all. We can argue scriptures years after years and never agree. I do not wish to discuss scripture, but understand true love.
A
Scripture has God's love in and with it. While reading and asking He and the Holy Spirit to empower you to His ways for you is what is a gift for you. The reality of the words of God is that it is so infinite even to us that we need its quality as a sword to separate our finite experiences and clouded misconceptions to His absolute infiniteness.
Jesus and Only Jesus is the Perfect Agape Love all of us receive this from Him to give, He is the only Omnipotent Agape Love Source all must go (pray) through Him to qualify His will and ways for each no one else is capable, what agape love i have received is not all powerful or given unless it is His will He is omniscient we are not, all prayer that is His will is heard and answered by Him He is the head The perfect man and The perfect God Man we only hear and receive His will His love to give to whom He sends to us or we are sent to.
GBY IN Agape
Jesus and Only Jesus is the Perfect Agape Love all of us receive this from Him to give, He is the only Omnipotent Agape Love Source all must go (pray) through Him to qualify His will and ways for each no one else is capable, what agape love i have received is not all powerful or given unless it is His will He is omniscient we are not, all prayer that is His will is heard and answered by Him He is the head The perfect man and The perfect God Man we only hear and receive His will His love to give to whom He sends to us or we are sent to.
GBY IN Agape
T
*IF* Mary didn't give birth to other children after Jesus, then Jesus isn't the Christ. Simply put.
The whole concept, twisted as it is, is an attack against the Lord. And to hold to that concept of
Mary being a virgin and giving birth to no more children is flat out denying Jesus is the Christ.
PROPHECY had to be fullfilled, which means, the mother of the Christ, giving birth to more children.
Psa 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
"My mother's children" can only be children Mary gave birth to. ANYTHING outside that, would have
refered back to the "father" and not the mother.
The whole process is to get the person to deny Jesus. Now, people don't realize, that denying
prophecy, concerning Jesus, is on the same level of denying Him in front of people. And that is the
whole purpose of it, the root focre driving the acceptance of the concept. To get the individual to
deny Jesus. People aren't looking at these traditions with spiritual discernment. They are being
deceived in a very bad way and when they have to stand and be judged a sinner, they will say,
"Lord, Lord, did we not cast out demons in Your name...." And Jesus will say, "Depart from Me, I
never knew you." They denied Him by holding on to, and preaching, He did NOT fullfill prophecy,
by the belief of Mary had no other children and remained a virgin. These people truly don't
know what they are in for, where judgment is concerned. Jesus said people are either
for Him or against Him. If anyone wants to deny He fullfilled Ps 69:8, then that person has
denied Him.
The whole concept, twisted as it is, is an attack against the Lord. And to hold to that concept of
Mary being a virgin and giving birth to no more children is flat out denying Jesus is the Christ.
PROPHECY had to be fullfilled, which means, the mother of the Christ, giving birth to more children.
Psa 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
"My mother's children" can only be children Mary gave birth to. ANYTHING outside that, would have
refered back to the "father" and not the mother.
The whole process is to get the person to deny Jesus. Now, people don't realize, that denying
prophecy, concerning Jesus, is on the same level of denying Him in front of people. And that is the
whole purpose of it, the root focre driving the acceptance of the concept. To get the individual to
deny Jesus. People aren't looking at these traditions with spiritual discernment. They are being
deceived in a very bad way and when they have to stand and be judged a sinner, they will say,
"Lord, Lord, did we not cast out demons in Your name...." And Jesus will say, "Depart from Me, I
never knew you." They denied Him by holding on to, and preaching, He did NOT fullfill prophecy,
by the belief of Mary had no other children and remained a virgin. These people truly don't
know what they are in for, where judgment is concerned. Jesus said people are either
for Him or against Him. If anyone wants to deny He fullfilled Ps 69:8, then that person has
denied Him.